Why did DYNASTY writing go bad?

Michael Torrance

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This is thing with Dynasty though. You always have to work so damn hard to make it make any sense. We should all get a writer credit.

As @Alexis said, with DYNASTY we have to work so hard to make some sense of it, especially once season 4 rolls along. So I am curious, why do you think that is?

An obvious culprit is the Shapiros' abandonment. Already by the end of season 3 they were focused on the (short-lived) Emerald Point N.A.S. Of course there would always be head-writers, but somebody has to have the whole picture in mind. When the Shapiros left them the reigns, the Pollocks let the horse go wild, and not in a good way. Any other ideas?
 

Alexis

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I think at a certain point they may have wrongly thought that the people watching didn't care about sensible intelligent writing and story structure and instead just wanted to see gorgeous gowns and displays of wealth and bitchiness even if it made no sense in context.

They were worried about the solid gold footrests on Alexis' barstools showing up on camera and not much else I think.
 

GillesDenver

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The fact that the main writer (the one who wrote the seasonal bible) changed EVERY year from season 5 to the end did not help keeping a coherence, even less a global vision...

At least on "The Colbys" Bast and Huson stayed from the start until the end...
 
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Ray&Donna

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When Helmut burger showed up
 

Ray&Donna

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The writers decided Peter's phony crack was worth trying
 

Alexis

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Season 4 really is torturous. Something terrible happens there. It feels like it's about a thousand episodes long. And it just sort of rambles.
 

GillesDenver

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I like season 4, even though it clearly lacks of focus. The writers managed to create a lot of drama with almost anything (as @Willie Oleson reminded us, even when Claudia gets a phone call and faints !!) and it is often deliciously campy to watch.
 

Snarky Oracle!

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I think at a certain point they may have wrongly thought that the people watching didn't care about sensible intelligent writing and story structure and instead just wanted to see gorgeous gowns and displays of wealth and bitchiness even if it made no sense in context.

They were worried about the solid gold footrests on Alexis' barstools showing up on camera and not much else I think.
As early as Season 3, you can see the early seeds sown in the show's destruction -- they became concerned with the wrong things, began over-controlling the wrong things (like the actors a la S.A.D.), developed perverse ideas abut made the show "work" and what didn't ... and then stuck to them furiously.

All of which caused that unrelenting sense of suffocation (as you've phrased) which no one seemed to acknowledge or do anything about for half-a-dozen years. Even the ratings slide didn't bother them until the network began to fuss about it.

They had this perfectly cast group of actors, and then kept them in a shoe box.

In that atmosphere, no one behind the camera can possibly be concerned about the characters and the writing for them. So they would toss out ideas, sometimes promising ones, and then would lazily sabotage them all by scripting an eternal sea of "why don't you share your pain with me, you chauvinistic bastard??" scenes.

The clever, focused, high society freshness of Season 2 just couldn't have survived that creativity dynamic.
 
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Zara

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Why did they stuck characters with silly signature lines that really made no sense?
Such as Blake's Dammit and What the devil, and Krystle's endless tirads of Are you tired/You must be tired. Was this dark humor of they wanting the show to go to sleep and die under the big question What the devil are we doing?!
 

Snarky Oracle!

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Why did they stuck characters with silly signature lines that really made no sense?
Such as Blake's Dammit and What the devil, and Krystle's endless tirads of Are you tired/You must be tired. Was this dark humor of they wanting the show to go to sleep and die under the big question What the devil are we doing?!
They say good writing is automatic --- and so is bad!
 

Michael Torrance

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Season 4 really is torturous. Something terrible happens there. It feels like it's about a thousand episodes long. And it just sort of rambles.

Everything is in place for season 4 to be as great as the previous ones: they have the actors, they have the time zone, the budget, the works. And I don't think they missed anyone in the team from season 3 other than the Shapiros who had moved on to Emerald Point (though they were still involved on paper). The chess board was set brilliantly: Blake and Stephen in court over Danny, with Alexis and Krystle uneasy allies on Steven's side. Blake having to work under Alexis--at least on the boardroom. Krystle no longer married to Blake and free to decide what she wants.
But it makes so many conscious decisions to undo what DYNASTY has been: it drops the main arc of Blake vs Alexis with the end of the merger in an unceremonious way. Stephen marries Claudia as a legal ploy and then they suddenly become a Stepford couple that plays it for real. The show suddenly picks up an episodic pace of mini-arcs that resolved in a few episodes (Claudia and "Lancelot" for instance). And of course, DevilBus--because of whom, Fallon falls in love with Jeff again, we are asked to believe, even though there was never a first time.
 

Zara

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The show suddenly picks up an episodic pace of mini-arcs that resolved in a few episodes (Claudia and "Lancelot" for instance).

Dynasty did that a lot! The best way to understand the Dynasty writing.
The incoherence over the seasons becomes logical if you factor in this method in the production.
There was always a little drama inside The Drama with Dynasty. They lost pace and people by doing so and destroyed the underlining idea (which is brilliant), and nothing of the bigger picture got resolved or even mentioned.
 

Michael Torrance

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Here are my thoughts about season 4 in general, from discussing "Carousel."

Despite some misfires in every season, the show had the genre nailed down right from the get-go, unlike its earlier Texan predecessor which took a while to let go of the stand-alone episode format, and there was a grand narrative which offered audiences the illusion that they were watching a planned story, one that would take some time to develop, but that there was someone (or many) crafting the overall design.

While the first three seasons were a novelistic family saga of the nighttime soap genre, this season DYNASTY becomes a daytime soap opera with a bigger budget and bigger actors than its daytime counterparts. The difference is huge: in a daytime soap characters come and go (“Tracy,” “Peter de Vilbis,” who even get their own episodes named after them together with “Dex” who at least had staying power), create their complications with their mini-arcs, entangle the main characters, and then they exit and new characters come by but nothing changes much. This was not the case with DYNASTY up until then, or DALLAS for many of its seasons past the first.

After the merger storyline ends early in the season, the show puts Blake and Krystle on one sphere and Alexis on another, one that involves Dex almost 24/7. As I said I liked Dex right away, both the actor and the character, but he needed to be more than Alexis’ sex on a stick (many forum members have given good ideas). The primal character with her vengeance and her rage for all the years of exile is now becoming a high society name, a sexy diva, and occasionally a meddling mother.

After season three where Fallon wanted to prove herself as a businesswoman, overcome her daddy issues and reconcile with Krystle, and finally ended her loveless marriage to Jeff, Fallon resorts to the spoiled brat again who wants the toy she discarded back and beds Jeff. And instead of intense therapy sessions, she goes for a washed-out Eurotrash playboy whose deal with the devil must be over for the portrait must now be ageing along with him. Laughingly, the show wants to use another daytime trope, that of the necessary secret, to create tension in the Jeff-Kirby marriage in earlier episodes: Fallon and Jeff must be in cahoots because they investigate Adam and can’t tell Kirby (did he have her hair bun wiretapped?) Except—that is not what created tension. It is the tiny detail that Jeff cheated on his wife with his ex who only wants him while he has somebody else’s ring on his finger.

How did we get here? while the season started strong with the trial about Danny’s custody, clouds were obvious on the horizon: first, Steven is once again straight, so straight that his storyline is about the burden and conflict of the successful business man whose boss (and also mom) places demands on his time and he neglects his new bride. It is such a joke on Steven as created by Al Corley how this storyline plays out by Jack Coleman’s Steven, that somehow I kept hoping that this would turn out another one of Claudia’s hallucinations—how she imagined being a housewife to Steven as she imagined the doll being Lindsay on the roof. Krystle standing up to Blake during the trial was the last we saw of her spine. After the Claudia magical resolution, Mark, who was getting progressively more decent for many episodes, tries to force himself on her. And then Blake concocts a magical PR position for her that will never be touched by Alexis as CEO of the merged company, supposedly. Dufus that she has become, Krystle buys all of it, proposal and all. And then they announce it to the family at the time: Kirby, Jeff, and the father of their baby, Adam.

Adam is the only one who has a continuing arc, and while in season 3 his story is one of many (the merger/Steven’s disappearance/Mark’s return) affecting core characters, it is now the only core one. Not only that, but while Adam is larger than life before—butting heads with Blake right away, flirting with his sister and brushing it off, poisoning Jeff as an antagonist to Colbyco power and Kirby but also subconsciously to Fallon and Alexis, and conflicted between wanting to have a brother in Steven and being Alexis’ lackey against him—here he is merely a father and a man in love.
 

Michael Torrance

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Dynasty did that a lot! The best way to understand the Dynasty writing.
The incoherence over the seasons becomes logical if you factor in this method in the production.
There was always a little drama inside The Drama with Dynasty. They lost pace and people by doing so and destroyed the underlining idea (which is brilliant), and nothing of the bigger picture got resolved or even mentioned.

Yeah, I know eventually it was rarer to see well-written seasons than bad ones, but I am trying to see if we can do a post-mortem. :D I do think the writer inconsistency @GillesDenver mentioned is one of the problems. I also wonder if perhaps penny-pinching Spelling's company was not the best for this kind of show. I mean, Lorimar had three in production and while there were problems there too, it was never as pronounced as DYNASTY's later years. But writing is not a budget issue, come to think of it.
 

tommie

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I dunno
It's an odd combination of their need to neurotically trying to control everything and an abusive sense of neglect. I don't think there'll ever be a tv show with such a fascinating combination.
 

thomaswak

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ABC had to much control over the writing's decisions I guess.
Also, the show became more about looks, wardrobe, fashion, camp and far fetched plots.

The show got good again when ABC didn't care anymore (and gave Paulsen more creative freedom than the previous show runners I suppose) and the show was more about substance over fashion.
 

Michael Torrance

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ABC had to much control over the writing's decisions I guess.

I don't really think so, except for Steven who was indeed straightened at the orders of the network. The network had the same objections in season 1, and Esther Shapiro did not budge, though she did say she eventually had him hook up with Claudia because as a gay man his storyline options were limited.

But I have not heard any other interference by the network in terms of writing or story.
 

thomaswak

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I don't really think so, except for Steven who was indeed straightened at the orders of the network. The network had the same objections in season 1, and Esther Shapiro did not budge, though she did say she eventually had him hook up with Claudia because as a gay man his storyline options were limited.

But I have not heard any other interference by the network in terms of writing or story.

I won't rule out that I'm wrong on that matter lol (Hence the "I guess" and "I suppose" in my comment)
 

GillesDenver

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But I have not heard any other interference by the network in terms of writing or story.
Don't forget they forced the writers to retool the show, in both seasons 6 and 7. And one executive, Peter Roth, hated Amanda and ordered that she stopped being spoilt, despite the fact that it was the essence of the character.

Joan Collins also said in her autobiography that at some point (mid season 7 obviously) the network wanted the show to be less glamourous, to be more like "Knots Landing" and "Roseanne". Joan stated it was a stupid move, like trading caviar with pâté (something like that).
 
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Michael Torrance

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Don't forget they forced the writers to retool the show, in both seasons 6 and 7. And one executive, Peter Roth, hated Amanda and ordered that she stopped being spoilt, despite the fact that it was the essence of the character.

Joan Collins also said in her autobiography that at some point (mid season 7 obviously) the network wanted the show to be less glamourous, to be more like "Knots Landing" and "Roseanne". Joan stated it was a stupid move, like trading caviar with pâté (something like that).

You're right about season 6, but the show had derailed long before that. And frankly, I am glad they forced them to turn the mess of season 6A into the very enjoyable 6B.

As for season 7, I do remember some articles about both Dallas and Dynasty toning down the nastiness as a result of the changing cultural climate and what not. If that is the case, then maybe my worst pile of episodes (7B) is ABC's fault.

But I don't think ABC forced them into Fallon being aimless in season 4, or into the way Dominique was not really utilized to her potential in season 5, or that Devil Bus was utilized to his potential to our detriment. And I know ABC did not force them into Rita or the aimless Moldavians in Denver in 6A.
 
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