The one catfight they never quite had...

[GillesDenver]

Maybe Ashley and Krystle had an off-screen catfight, which caused the problem with Ashley’s neck.

Or a an off-screen catfight with Alexis since it was established that they already knew each other before Ashley came to Denver.

 

[Ked]

No, the seasonal bible did not mention anything like that.

Oh, I wasn't asking whether the seasonal bible had any plans like that. I meant in general.

 

[Toni]

Knowing DYNASTY, they probably would have just called it "The Woman" or something like that.

Or "The Lady is a Tramp".

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Or "The Lady is a Tramp".

Too cleverly creative -- unless we're talking about Season 9.

 

[Daniel Avery]

unless we're talking about Season 9

"All Hands on Dex" still makes me chuckle.

 

[Willie Oleson]

It's funny that Dynasty - of all soaps - had the best man-on-man fights. The Colbys and The Yellow Rose too.
The problem with catfights, at least the catfights in soaps, is that it almost never looks good.
Dynasty's first one was very well staged but the obvious stunt doubles took a lot of magic out of it. The main reason why it still kinda works is because the audience was saddled with Alexis' heinous secret, and something had to happen to release us from that tension.

However, without the restraint and dignity and the passive-aggressive attitude, it creates an open "anything goes" hostility that undermines the overall drama.
Since "the worst" has already happened you no longer have the tantalising question if it will come to blows. That's the downside of releasing tension, and the best part of the Krystle vs. Alexis feud ended after that first fight.

Personally, I prefer a good slap that happens in a genuinely emotional scene, and thankfully prime time soap has many of them.
But most of the catfights were a "put the cart before the horse" scenario, something that was supposed to look exciting but with a weak (or no) reason to justify the climax it just looks silly.
And I'm a very serious person who takes his soaps very very seriously.

Looking at the second fight (in the lily pond) it works as a Krystle vs. Alexis epilogue.
Alexis doesn't shout, she almost whispers her evil insults - but the tone instantly changes when Krystle calls her "you miserable bitch!"
Three reasons why it doesn't work.
1. Krystle states the obvious, we already know that Alexis is a miserable bitch.
2. Krystle's "campy" vocal insult literally overshouts the drama and tragedy that made Alexis gloat in the first place.
3. By calling Alexis a "miserable bitch" it means that Krystle believes it. That's the biggest mistake because Krystle is the kind of person who cannot believe that such evil exists. She should have been perplexed and in tears, similar to how she reacted to Blake and Fallon's villainy in 1981.

If the fight was going to happen it should have started with a raw and emotional scream, not words, showing Krystle's ineptitude to deal with this kind of evil and injustice.
Furthermore, Blake should have been in the lily pond, preventing Krystle from drowning Alexis.
Alexis could have used it to reverse the monster/victim status quo and get a restraining order for the second Mrs. Carrington.
So, every time Alexis visits her grandsons, Krystle has to leave the mansion, which could be a reason why she ends up in La Mirage.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

t's funny that Dynasty - of all soaps - had the best man-on-man fights. The Colbys and The Yellow Rose too.
The problem with catfights, at least the catfights in soaps, is that it almost never looks good.
Dynasty's first one was very well staged but the obvious stunt doubles took a lot of magic out of it. The main reason why it still kinda works is because the audience was saddled with Alexis' heinous secret, and something had to happen to release us from that tension.

However, without the restraint and dignity and the passive-aggressive attitude, it creates an open "anything goes" hostility that undermines the overall drama.
Since "the worst" has already happened you no longer have the tantalising question if it will come to blows. That's the downside of releasing tension, and the best part of the Krystle vs. Alexis feud ended after that first fight.

Personally, I prefer a good slap that happens in a genuinely emotional scene, and thankfully prime time soap has many of them.
But most of the catfights were a "put the cart before the horse" scenario, something that was supposed to look exciting but with a weak (or no) reason to justify the climax it just looks silly.
And I'm a very serious person who takes his soaps very very seriously.

Very good points. And the DYNASTY dogfights indeed had a brutality not seen in all those pool-dunkings in DALLAS (although Lance & Cole beat the phukcing hell out of each other rather impressively once or twice).

The bizarre thing is: they shot a lot of coverage of Linda and Joan for the art studio catfight, including Alexis smashing the flower vase by Krystle's head, and yet they chose to remain on the doubles for far too long a time (and use little of the footage of Linda and Joan).

In 1982, it was a shock that they were even doing this, the two leading ladies of a primetime show taking each other down. Today, of course, it's no big whoop -- so the flaws stand out like swollen thumbs with broken designer nails.

I'm against sweetening old classics (if DYNASTY even qualifies) except when I'm not. And I seriously think the art studio catfight should be re-edited, even today, if the old, un-used footage of the two actresses still exists.

Looking at the second fight (in the lily pond) it works as a Krystle vs. Alexis epilogue.
Alexis doesn't shout, she almost whispers her evil insults - but the tone instantly changes when Krystle calls her "you miserable bitch!"
Three reasons why it doesn't work.
1. Krystle states the obvious, we already know that Alexis is a miserable bitch.
2. Krystle's "campy" vocal insult literally overshouts the drama and tragedy that made Alexis gloat in the first place.
3. By calling Alexis a "miserable bitch" it means that Krystle believes it. That's the biggest mistake because Krystle is the kind of person who cannot believe that such evil exists. She should have been perplexed and in tears, similar to how she reacted to Blake and Fallon's villainy in 1981.

If the fight was going to happen it should have started with a raw and emotional scream, not words, showing Krystle's ineptitude to deal with this kind of evil and injustice.
Furthermore, Blake should have been in the lily pond, preventing Krystle from drowning Alexis.
Alexis could have used it to reverse the monster/victim status quo and get a restraining order for the second Mrs. Carrington.
So, every time Alexis visits her grandsons, Krystle has to leave the mansion, which could be a reason why she ends up in La Mirage.

I'm not sure about your point about Krystle not believing that such evil exists.. They way I'd change the lilypond scene is to have Alexis deliver her lines, taunting Krystle about the miscarriage Alexis herself had caused, in sudden close-up, Joan delivering her lines with despicable slime. Thus warranting Krystle's violent reaction (Linda also delivering her "you miserable bitch!" line with a guttural ferocity apparently not requested of her).

I mean, the way they did it -- in keeping with Season 3's increasing tone-deafness -- Alexis and Krystle's verbal sparring had no bite at all, especially given the sordid nature of what was being discussed, which was essentially a baby murder.

A minor detail: I want the lily pond fight to climax with Alexis shoving a handful of lilies into Krystle's mouth, with Krystle non-plussed and stunned by this maneuver.

 

[Willie Oleson]

Thus warranting Krystle's violent reaction (Linda also delivering her "you miserable bitch!" line with a guttural ferocity apparently not requested of her).

Sorry but I'll stand by my previous comments.
Krystle's reaction makes it seem as if the fight takes place because Alexis is a miserable bitch - which means that it could have randomly happened in any episode because Alexis is always a miserable bitch.
But being a miserable bitch isn't as cruel as torturing Krystle with her double loss, first the miscarriage and then the adoption that couldn't happen because Steven returned.
Considering the subject and gravity of Alexis' villainy in this scene, the insult "miserable bitch" sounds relatively light-hearted and even a little bit nondescript.
I would have preferred to see Krystle, out of breath because of Alexis' cruelty, calling her a monster - perhaps more like a realisation than an insult.
The dialogue doesn't even have to end there.
Alexis could retaliate with the comment that Krystle had done everything to destroy Alexis' relationship with her children, a feeling that had instigated the scene in the first place.
On top of everything, and similar to the first fight caused by Alexis slapping Krystle, maybe it should have been Alexis who pushed Krystle into the pond, only to end up in the pond herself because Krystle grabbed her.
Since the choreography of the fight totally sucks I think it would have been better to only show the part that is witnessed by Blake.
Which brings me to another point: a witness/witnesses increases the shock value of the battling Denver Dames. There needs to be an opportunity to judge these upper-class soap characters.
Jeff and Fallon's trippy midnight swim witnessed by Krystle, Fallon and Mark's semi-hedonistic act during the opening of La Mirage, and even the outrageous Carlton fight in season 9.

Don't get me wrong, I still like the scene the way it is. It's just that the perfect soap that is DYNASTY deserves absolute perfectness, which has nothing to do with completely rewriting storylines but paying attention to detail in scenes and characters. And that's why PEYTON PLACE was, is and always will be the #1 American soap opera.

 

[Ked]

3. By calling Alexis a "miserable bitch" it means that Krystle believes it. That's the biggest mistake because Krystle is the kind of person who cannot believe that such evil exists. She should have been perplexed and in tears, similar to how she reacted to Blake and Fallon's villainy in 1981.

I'm not sure about your point about Krystle not believing that such evil exists.. They way I'd change the lilypond scene is to have Alexis deliver her lines, taunting Krystle about the miscarriage Alexis herself had caused, in sudden close-up, Joan delivering her lines with despicable slime. Thus warranting Krystle's violent reaction (Linda also delivering her "you miserable bitch!" line with a guttural ferocity apparently not requested of her).

Sorry but I'll stand by my previous comments.
Krystle's reaction makes it seem as if the fight takes place because Alexis is a miserable bitch - which means that it could have randomly happened in any episode because Alexis is always a miserable bitch.
But being a miserable bitch isn't as cruel as torturing Krystle with her double loss, first the miscarriage and then the adoption that couldn't happen because Steven returned.
Considering the subject and gravity of Alexis' villainy in this scene, the insult "miserable bitch" sounds relatively light-hearted and even a little bit nondescript.
I would have preferred to see Krystle, out of breath because of Alexis' cruelty, calling her a monster - perhaps more like a realisation than an insult.
The dialogue doesn't even have to end there.
Alexis could retaliate with the comment that Krystle had done everything to destroy Alexis' relationship with her children, a feeling that had instigated the scene in the first place.

It would make sense that Krystle would not believe "such evil" exits in the first season, but by the third season, Krystle has grown wiser to the world of the Carringtons. She would have been far too experienced by that time to only *then* have the realization you speak of.

However, Willie, you do raise a good point that Krystle calling Alexis a "monster" would be better. I still like "You miserable bitch!" because, from what I know (although I could be wrong), that was the first time the word "bitch" was said on TV.

On top of everything, and similar to the first fight caused by Alexis slapping Krystle, maybe it should have been Alexis who pushed Krystle into the pond, only to end up in the pond herself because Krystle grabbed her.

Nah. I personally love how Krystle just charges and tackles Alexis. She has hit her annual breaking point and is going for what's been building up all season.

Since the choreography of the fight totally sucks I think it would have been better to only show the part that is witnessed by Blake.

Absolutely not. I'm a firm believer in actually SHOWING the catfight. I shall *NEVER* forgive 90210 for their egregious act of not showing the one and only catfight that Annie ever had.

Here's the promo:

The actual scene:

I was waiting for 3 seasons for Annie to start fighting, and THAT'S what I get?!?! Ugh... but anyway, back to other, soapier dramas.

Don't get me wrong, I still like the scene the way it is. It's just that the perfect soap that is DYNASTY deserves absolute perfectness, which has nothing to do with completely rewriting storylines but paying attention to detail in scenes and characters.

Fair points. x3

And that's why PEYTON PLACE was, is and always will be the #1 American soap opera.

Is it? I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on that.

 

[Willie Oleson]

but by the third season, Krystle has grown wiser to the world of the Carringtons

Sad but true. It even shows in her very first scene with Alexis.
I remember the Krystle who stood up to Joseph and then felt awful about it afterwards. It's the difference between drama-Krystle and soap-Krystle.
The "same dress" scene signalled that it shouldn't be taken too seriously anymore.
At least Krystle's complex and fascinating relationship with her difficult stepdaughter remained intact for the whole of season 2.

"You miserable bitch!" because, from what I know (although I could be wrong), that was the first time the word "bitch" was said on TV.

I wonder where that myth comes from because it's not true.

I'm a firm believer in actually SHOWING the catfight.

I enjoy it when it looks like the real thing, like the Cristal/Alexis catfight in CWDynasty. But the only victim in the lily pond fight was Alexis' hat.
The only soap character who should have done lots of catfights was Lucy Ewing. Charlene Tilton was often quite unfiltered when she had to play the big emotions.

I also like Alexis' fight with Dex, it was so unexpected and politically incorrect, and maybe also a very unique one.

Is it? I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on that.

I did some reviewing when I watched it but that's all gone because of the site crash.
Such a tragedy that Shout Factory didn't release all the episodes on DVD. It would have been the pièce de résistance in my soap collection.

 

[Ked]

Sad but true. It even shows in her very first scene with Alexis.
I remember the Krystle who stood up to Joseph and then felt awful about it afterwards. It's the difference between drama-Krystle and soap-Krystle.
The "same dress" scene signalled that it shouldn't be taken too seriously anymore.
At least Krystle's complex and fascinating relationship with her difficult stepdaughter remained intact for the whole of season 2.

One could argue that was a case of Character Development (although that does sound a bit generous for DYNASTY, lol). Why shouldn't Krystle learn that she's "the boss" of the mansion and plant her flag, so to speak?

I'm one of the ones who liked that Krystle and Fallon became friends - but even I will agree that it happened way too fast. It should have been more gradual, with the two uneasy with this newfound alliance and carefully treading these uncharted waters.

I wonder where that myth comes from because it's not true.

Ah, so it isn't? Oh shoot. Oh well, I still like the line. Say, when *was* "bitch" first said on TV anyway?

I enjoy it when it looks like the real thing, like the Cristal/Alexis catfight in CWDynasty. But the only victim in the lily pond fight was Alexis' hat.

Ah yes, I *loved* that catfight. I loved the whole Season Finale of Season 1 for that show, it felt like it had *FINALLY* found it's footing, being new while also paying homage to the original... and then they @#$%ED it all up by firing Nathalie Kelley and killing off Cristal. Seriously, is DYNASTY cursed or something?

But anyway, yes, the catfight scene was very impressive. If they used stunt doubles, I couldn't tell; they hit all the notes of the original fight while making it more realistic and brutal - and they also switched a few details because Alexis was now the tall blonde and Cristal/Krystle was now the petite brunette - and yet they *also* managed to make it realistic that the latter would emerge victorious (helps that Nathalie Kelley was younger and more athletic than Joan Collins was during her DYNASTY stint).

The only soap character who should have done lots of catfights was Lucy Ewing. Charlene Tilton was often quite unfiltered when she had to play the big emotions.

Hah! "The Poison Dwarf" is what I read she was called.

I also like Alexis' fight with Dex, it was so unexpected and politically incorrect, and maybe also a very unique one.

I liked it too, although I thought the part where they started making out felt a little forced. I suppose it would be difficult to showcase a fight that turns into a make-out session, but still...

Heh, didn't Dex also have a similar but much more tame fight with Amanda in Season 5, when they were snowed in at the cabin?

I did some reviewing when I watched it but that's all gone because of the site crash.
Such a tragedy that Shout Factory didn't release all the episodes on DVD. It would have been the pièce de résistance in my soap collection.

Ah yes, that site crash. And that's too bad, I wonder why they didn't release all the episodes? That is odd. At least the whole series is still on YouTube.

 

[Artur]

I wonder if there was no slap or fight between Krystle and Sammy Jo after the Rita scheme because Krystle felt that she „deserved” that. I mean she let her niece be a poor trash for years knowing she has a wealthy prominent father.
Wouldn’t you like to get revenge on your own aunt if she knew there are millions that belong to you while you had to do dirty photo shoots for living?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I wonder if there was no slap or fight between Krystle and Sammy Jo after the Rita scheme because Krystle felt that she „deserved” that. I mean she let her niece be a poor trash for years knowing she has a wealthy prominent father.
Wouldn’t you like to get revenge on your own aunt if she knew there are millions that belong to you while you had to do dirty photo shoots for living?

I'm not particularly sensitive to homophobic slurs, but when Sammy Jo mocks Luke's death one too many times to Stevenbot's mechanical face, I want to see Krystle to come up behind her and clock the shiite out of her.

It just seems right.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I just want Season 8 to be this weird blend of EYES OF LAURA MARS and Ellen Burstyn's RESSURECTION -- with some MAN-CHEWING CANDIDATE thrown in for substance.

And I don't think I'm kidding.

 

[Willie Oleson]

I want at least a third of season 7 to be about Alexis and Caress in the haunted mansion.
But then, after several mysterious and very stressful encounters, Alexis discovers that Caress has gaslighted her in order to become a ColbyCo proxy and eventually have Alexis declared insane once and for all, and this comes to a physical confrontation on top of the iconic staircase.

Then the scene changes to Krystle's POV when she unexpectedly walks into the mansion, and looks down on Caress' lifeless body.

Oh my god!

 

[Ked]

I'm not particularly sensitive to homophobic slurs, but when Sammy Jo mocks Luke's death one too many times to Stevenbot's mechanical face, I want to see Krystle to come up behind her and clock the shiite out of her.

It just seems right.

Honestly, I always wanted Krystle to lay the smackdown on Sammy Jo in this scene:

It's like, girl, you GAVE YOUR INFANT SON UP, WHILE ACTING LIKE HE WAS BEING A BURDEN TO YOU, AND SUDDENLY YOU WANT HIM BACK LIKE HE'S A TOY OR SOMETHING?!?! I would have grabbed that giant plate of food and slammed it straight into Sammy Jo's face before giving it a few extra smacks and telling her to get the f*** out of MY house and to stay away FOR GOOD.

Of course, we all know that wouldn't have stopped a good ol' schemer like Sammy Jo. That's why we love her.

 

[Ked]

I want at least a third of season 7 to be about Alexis and Caress in the haunted mansion.
But then, after several mysterious and very stressful encounters, Alexis discovers that Caress has gaslighted her in order to become a ColbyCo proxy and eventually have Alexis declared insane once and for all, and this comes to a physical confrontation on top of the iconic staircase.

Then the scene changes to Krystle's POV when she unexpectedly walks into the mansion, and looks down on Caress' lifeless body.

That would have been fun! Let's also have it so that Caress was wearing a long bathrobe during her catfight with Alexis, and it falls off when she takes a tumble down the stairs, landing at the base in only her underwear.

 

[tommie]

Why didn't the Pyramid Catfight happen anyway?

 

[Ked]

Why didn't the Pyramid Catfight happen anyway?

The what?

 

[tommie]

The what?

The Pyramid Catfight that happens in season 17 when Liz Taylor guest stars. Duh!