Did Donna Reed's Miss Ellie have any redeeming features?

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I don't understand all te negativity toward Donna Reed.

Yes the fans preferred BBG, OK

Donna Reed was an accomplished actress.

She won an Oscar for "From Here to Eternity"
She was the lead in her own sitcom for 8 years, and her character was a much more assertive, layered, intelligent woman
than many others in that time.
She played the iconic role of Mary Bailey in "It's a Wonderful Life"
She appeared in over 40 feature films.
Donna Reed's Miss Ellie was a more gracious, sophisticated Miss Ellie, who certainly dressed better.
I always felt that a woman from any background who became so wealthy would have acquired more upscale taste.
Donna Reed modeled her Miss Ellie after wealthy oli baron wives that she encountered,
She did have some good scenes
i.e. talking to Sue Ellen about how her marriage to JR was always difficult, but SE had more ability to heal it, because
JR was always trying to please Jock, even after Jock was gone.
This was more compassion for JR than BBG showed, except for rare occasions.
Writer's fault maybe, but still...

To many, maybe most, Dallas fans, no one would have been accepted other than BBG
I understand that, but Donna Reed should receive some respect.

 

[LMLDallas78]

I don't understand all te negativity toward Donna Reed.

Yes the fans preferred BBG, OK

Donna Reed was an accomplished actress.

She won an Oscar for "From Here to Eternity"
She was the lead in her own sitcom for 8 years, and her character was a much more assertive, layered, intelligent woman
than many others in that time.
She played the iconic role of Mary Bailey in "It's a Wonderful Life"
She appeared in over 40 feature films.
Donna Reed's Miss Ellie was a more gracious, sophisticated Miss Ellie, who certainly dressed better.
I always felt that a woman from any background who became so wealthy would have acquired more upscale taste.
Donna Reed modeled her Miss Ellie after wealthy oli baron wives that she encountered,
She did have some good scenes
i.e. talking to Sue Ellen about how her marriage to JR was always difficult, but SE had more ability to heal it, because
JR was always trying to please Jock, even after Jock was gone.
This was more compassion for JR than BBG showed, except for rare occasions.
Writer's fault maybe, but still...

To many, maybe most, Dallas fans, no one would have been accepted other than BBG
I understand that, but Donna Reed should receive some respect.

Indeed! And I did show respect for an actress I barely knew and stated how the treatment of Donna Reed by the shows makers was so cruel.

But she should've modeled her Miss Ellie on Miss Ellie, it wasn't a brand new one being invented.

A wealthy woman she was, but we knew Miss Ellie as down to earth and homely with a tough edge regardless of her wealth and dress sense.
I think we all agree none of this was purely down to just Donna Reed, she was allowed to play it so differently and it was allowed to fail.

We all have differing opinions and sense of humour, we don't always agree and that's what makes this forum so fascinating and enjoyable.

 

[southfork88]

Indeed! And I did show respect for an actress I barely knew and stated how the treatment of Donna Reed by the shows makers was so cruel.

But she should've modeled her Miss Ellie on Miss Ellie, it wasn't a brand new one being invented.

A wealthy woman she was, but we knew Miss Ellie as down to earth and homely with a tough edge regardless of her wealth and dress sense.
I think we all agree none of this was purely down to just Donna Reed, she was allowed to play it so differently and it was allowed to fail.

We all have differing opinions and sense of humour, we don't always agree and that's what makes this forum so fascinating and enjoyable.

Obviously @Jock Ewing Fan 's criticism wasn't aimed at you, but rather of those who cross the line of education and good taste.

There are prejudices of some of us towards certain characters and above all actors.

But forms of hatred should be avoided because they are also the basis of much more serious events such as wars and discrimination.

 

[DarkVader]

Indeed! And I did show respect for an actress I barely knew and stated how the treatment of Donna Reed by the shows makers was so cruel.

But she should've modeled her Miss Ellie on Miss Ellie, it wasn't a brand new one being invented.

A wealthy woman she was, but we knew Miss Ellie as down to earth and homely with a tough edge regardless of her wealth and dress sense.
I think we all agree none of this was purely down to just Donna Reed, she was allowed to play it so differently and it was allowed to fail.

We all have differing opinions and sense of humour, we don't always agree and that's what makes this forum so fascinating and enjoyable.

Um, I'm sorry but did you just call Miss Ellie homely?!?!? On what planet? Miss Ellie was NOT homely!!

EDIT: I am so sorry. You were using the British definition of the word! I tend to forget there are fans from the UK on this forum.

My apologies!

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I don't understand all te negativity toward Donna Reed.

Yes the fans preferred BBG, OK

Donna Reed was an accomplished actress.

She won an Oscar for "From Here to Eternity"
She was the lead in her own sitcom for 8 years, and her character was a much more assertive, layered, intelligent woman
than many others in that time.
She played the iconic role of Mary Bailey in "It's a Wonderful Life"
She appeared in over 40 feature films.
Donna Reed's Miss Ellie was a more gracious, sophisticated Miss Ellie, who certainly dressed better.
I always felt that a woman from any background who became so wealthy would have acquired more upscale taste.
Donna Reed modeled her Miss Ellie after wealthy oli baron wives that she encountered,
She did have some good scenes
i.e. talking to Sue Ellen about how her marriage to JR was always difficult, but SE had more ability to heal it, because
JR was always trying to please Jock, even after Jock was gone.
This was more compassion for JR than BBG showed, except for rare occasions.
Writer's fault maybe, but still...

To many, maybe most, Dallas fans, no one would have been accepted other than BBG
I understand that, but Donna Reed should receive some respect.

You might try (re)reading the thread.

Many of us are quite sympathetic to Donna Reed and acknowledge that she was mistreated by the brass. But that doesn't mean her version of Miss Ellie worked.

And, no, if Reed had played Ellie from 1978, and Buddy Ebsen had played Jock and Robert Culp had played J.R., we wouldn't be talking about DALLAS today.

It's not always about who played it first.

 

[LMLDallas78]

Um, I'm sorry but did you just call Miss Ellie homely?!?!? On what planet? Miss Ellie was NOT homely!!

EDIT: I am so sorry. You were using the British definition of the word! I tend to forget there are fans from the UK on this forum.

My apologies!

OMG, NO!! I'm so pleased that was cleared up.
I really am only on this planet, I could've been cancelled over that and blasted off!

 

[Billy Wall]

Um, I'm sorry but did you just call Miss Ellie homely?!?!? On what planet? Miss Ellie was NOT homely!!

EDIT: I am so sorry. You were using the British definition of the word! I tend to forget there are fans from the UK on this forum.

My apologies!

I can almost guarantee you that women who watched the show back in the day would call her drab and homely. Women tend to be more critical of other women when it comes to wardrobe. While every was dressed up, Miss Ellie's attire was down to Earth in comparison.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

You might try (re)reading the thread.

Many of us are quite sympathetic to Donna Reed and acknowledge that she was mistreated by the brass. But that doesn't mean her version of Miss Ellie worked.

And, no, if Reed had played Ellie from 1978, and Buddy Ebsen had played Jock and Robert Culp had played J.R., we wouldn't be talking about DALLAS today.

It's not always about who played it first.

I think it is partially due to both some comments on this thread and comments on other threads, that some people don't seem to realize that Donna Reed was an acclaimed
actress.

I didn't say anything about Buddy Ebsen or Robert Culp - were they the original choices for those roles? I never heard that.

If its not always about who played it first, then what is the controversy,? BBG, Hagman and Davis were all the originals.

Personally, I have some views on the show that may not be the consensus opinion, just as many others do.

Roles are sometimes recast, with varying levels of success in several genres.

Personally, I think Miss Ellie's character was never quite as effective after Jim Davis passed, and I never liked her pairing
with Clayton, especially after giving him half of Southfork. That was the writing, and I don't know how much input
BBG had, if any.

By Season 6, it was Larry and Patrick, with VP and LG at the center. Miss Ellie's character, along with others
became plot devices, increasingly IMHO

 

[Chris2]

The one good thing about Donna Reed‘s casting as Ellie is that it made me really appreciate Barbara Bel Geddes. Reed was a fine actress in her day, but she seemed awfully rusty and stiff as Ellie.

I agree that Miss Ellie was most effective when Jock was alive. The two characters played off each other very well, because they had conflicts despite their love (e.g. Jock was a male chauvinist, Ellie blamed Jock for Gary wanting to have his own life away from his weird family, etc). There were no real conflicts between Ellie and Clayton; he was soft and grandfatherly, and Ellie became softer and grandmotherly when she was with him.

 

[Billy Wall]

Clayton; he was soft and grandfatherly, and Ellie became softer and grandmotherly when she was with him.

I hear that a lot. What exactly made Clayton soft?

 

[Chris2]

He just wasn’t intimidating. If someone like him had yelled at me, I wouldn’t have taken it seriously. If someone like Jim Davis’ Jock yelled at me, I would have been scared shitless. And I wouldn’t have crossed Ellie in the early days either - she had a temper.

 

[CeeCee72]

By the time BBG left, Ellie had been regulated to supporting status. The show was JR's. The main characters (along with JR) were Pam, Bobby, and Sue Ellen. I don't think the recast should have ever happened. I would have written the character out of the picture with a long illness and had the other characters mention her from time to time. Yes, it would have hurt the show, but no more than that awful recast.

Donna Reed was a fine actress, but she wasn't Miss Ellie and no one bought her in that role.

 

[the-lost-son]

Dallas truly is a phenomenon. During its first years for its iconic storytelling and then for a double recast and a dream explanation which (at least in my perception have been unprecedented in primetime TV).

I think there is a difference between viewers who watched during Dallas' original run and viewers like me who watched the series decades later when DVDs were released. I regarded Donna Reed's stint as an intermezzo because I knew that BBG would be back to take her role.

Of course, recasting an iconic role of BBG's Miss Ellie is a suicide mission. If Donna Reed had had a sensible agent he would have advised against taking that role. Regarding Katzman and Capice...
one the one hand I can understand their decision not to kill off Miss Ellie and recast the role - it was "vital to keep the structure of the show and to stop JR from running wild" ( Barbara Curran)...
one the other hand it's a mystery why they denied BBG a lighter workload (for which she asked) but did not give Donna Reed any material to work with and decreased her role towards the end of the season. (Personally I don't "believe" her acting had anything to do with that. Duffy wanted to leave and the series ehich was then heading towards Swan Song). I can't remember what she actually did except taking down Jock's portrait and standing next to Bobby's deathbed.

I wish BBG would have been there, but nonetheless Reed's "no" when the monitor flatlined gets me everytime.

 

[Billy Wall]

He just wasn’t intimidating. If someone like him had yelled at me, I wouldn’t have taken it seriously. If someone like Jim Davis’ Jock yelled at me, I would have been scared shitless. And I wouldn’t have crossed Ellie in the early days either - she had a temper.

Because Clayton wasn't a screamer, he was soft? Not saying Jock was weak, but I'm one of those people that think the loudest person in the room is the weakest person in the room. Clayton didn't yell at Parmelee at that oil barons ball, but he calmly told him "if you are the fraud that many of us think you are, I'll track you down and I'll kill ya." Very intimidating without raising his voice.

 

[Richard Channing]

Um, I'm sorry but did you just call Miss Ellie homely?!?!? On what planet? Miss Ellie was NOT homely!!

EDIT: I am so sorry. You were using the British definition of the word! I tend to forget there are fans from the UK on this forum.

My apologies!

Interesting. I never knew homely had a different meaning in the US. I had to look it up. I now know not to tell any of my American friends how homely they're looking!

 

[Chris2]

Clayton didn't yell at Parmelee at that oil barons ball, but he calmly told him "if you are the fraud that many of us think you are, I'll track you down and I'll kill ya." Very intimidating without raising his voice.

Not intimating at all, because he didn’t follow through. That was the difference between Jock and Clayton.

 

[Billy Wall]

Not intimating at all, because he didn’t follow through. That was the difference between Jock and Clayton.

He didn't kill those two that broke into his house and held his entire family hostage. He didn't kill Hutch Mckenny after he stole from him. He never killed Digger Barnes.

Maybe Jock's bark was louder than his bite.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

He just wasn’t intimidating. If someone like him had yelled at me, I wouldn’t have taken it seriously. If someone like Jim Davis’ Jock yelled at me, I would have been scared shitless. And I wouldn’t have crossed Ellie in the early days either - she had a temper.

Clayton was a bellower while Jock was a growling barker. Jock seemed more likely to kill you (even if he didn't kill Hutch) or lock you in an asylum.

They'd both terrify me. But then I'm very sensitive.

Donna Krebbs was scarier than all of 'em.

it's a mystery why they denied BBG a lighter workload (for which she asked) but did not give Donna Reed any material to work with and decreased her role towards the end of the season

Exactly. Reed was cut back in her scenes so quickly that their argument that "she's the only one who can control JR" didn't make any sense.

But I guess BBG's request for a workload reduction (due to illness) and a raise (her contract was up) simultaneously peeved some executive.

But they say Katzman "loved" dithery, dainty Donna Reed. And if Katzman wanted to stop the re-casr, I tend to assume he could've.

 

[Seaviewer]

That's interesting that they changed the voice for (supposedly) the same character. I'm not surprised as a child you wondered why.
That's just odd.

And they started dramatically cutting back in Reed's scenes anyway once they realized it wasn't working.

Fair point, but I just don’t see a recast working in this situation no matter who they chose. The role had become all too synonymous with just one person.

Perhaps, but these arguments are after the fact. It made perfect sense at the time, and as I've said, the announcement of Reed's casting was greeted with great enthusiasm.

But she should've modeled her Miss Ellie on Miss Ellie, it wasn't a brand new one being invented.

On that. I agree.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Perhaps, but these arguments are after the fact. It made perfect sense at the time, and as I've said, the announcement of Reed's casting was greeted with great enthusiasm.

Greeted with great enthusiasm by who??

These arguments and observations and criticisms absolutely went on at the time.