Doug Cramer RIP

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So many different versions of different stories... The Shapiros say they went back to the show for Season 3 because Aaron said the show was out of control (which had to have meant budget) but Cramer said they slithered back because of the Emmy nominations it got for Season 2.

Could it be both?
 

GillesDenver

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The second version sounds more plausible even though they were budget problems in season 2 (they were reshooting scenes in almost every episode and they had to film again a large part of the episode "The Fragment").
 

Alexis

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When I started watching Peyton Place a good few years back I was also re-watching Dynasty and I was certain that someone at ABC had went back in the archives and stole a few ideas from Peyton Place for Dynasty. I can't remember the specific stories now, but they were very similar. I had no idea that Cramer was involved in the development of Peyton Place. It all makes sense now.

Didn't he also own that terrible nude of Joan Collins too?
 

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It's interesting that Doug Cramer said they were having story problems during Season 5, despite it being #1 at the time, especially since the actors were told "just look at the ratings" when they complained about the same thing.

I recall TVGuide did a little piece midway through the fifth year questioning Esther Shapiro and DALLAS creator David Jacobs about what they would do were they running each others' shows. Predictably, Shapiro said she'd "make Miss Ellie a much stronger character" (which I guess means Ellie would get raped and have affairs repeatedly) and give the women much greater Texas frontier grit; Jacobs praised DYNASTY's glamour and merchandising, but said the show needed to start concentrating much more on "story" or it could soon slip (which, of course, is what happened -- the slipping, that is).

So perhaps the DYNASTY brass were listening, although they usually seemed immune to criticism in the press, so creatively paralyzed they were.

Funnily, around the same time, Shapiro bashed the terrible plotting of Lorimar's BERRENGERS and then, months later, hired BERRENGERS' producer Diana Gould for DYNASTY's Season 6.



As a side note, during Season7, Jacobs bemoaned the fact that "Joan and Linda don't even seem like the stars of the show anymore" while Karen Cellini admitted that "all anybody wants to see" is Joan and Linda.

 
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bernard.c

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The second version sounds more plausible even though they were budget problems in season 2 (they were reshooting scenes in almost every episode and they had to film again a large part of the episode "The Fragment").
Thanks; that’s very interesting.
Do you happen to know why a large part of the episode “The Fragment” in season 2 was reshot?
 

GillesDenver

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Thanks; that’s very interesting.
Do you happen to know why a large part of the episode “The Fragment” in season 2 was reshot?
I was told that Edward Ledding did a terrible job and his scenes were reshoot by Irving J. Moore. I don't know if it's true or gossips.

Also, during the shooting of this episode and the 2 following, one of the major stars (maybe John Forysthe) was ill and the shooting was delayed for at least a week.

The same occured again during season 3 (I think this time it was because of Pamela Sue Martin but I'm not completely sure).
 

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I was told that Edward Ledding did a terrible job and his scenes were reshoot by Irving J. Moore. I don't know if it's true or gossips.

Also, during the shooting of this episode and the 2 following, one of the major stars (maybe John Forysthe) was ill and the shooting was delayed for at least a week.

The same occured again during season 3 (I think this time it was because of Pamela Sue Martin but I'm not completely sure).

I still hold to my conspiracy theory that Ledding was set up and framed to get rid of him. He was the only key staffer there in Season 2 who was not for Season 3. And the tonal shift downward was in evidence in the very first episode of Season 3.

Unfortunately, Ledding doesn't want to talk to us about it.
 

GillesDenver

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I still hold to my conspiracy theory that Ledding was set up and framed to get rid of him. He was the only key staffer there in Season 2 who was not for Season 3. And the tonal shift downward was in evidence in the very first episode of Season 3.

Unfortunately, Ledding doesn't want to talk to us about it.
Yes, I also tried to contact him through Facebook but he did not answer back.

However, I still think otherwise, he seemed to be involved in technical stuff, as a sort of line producer, like Elaine Rich.
 

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Yes, I also tried to contact him through Facebook but he did not answer back.

However, I still think otherwise, he seemed to be involved in technical stuff, as a sort of line producer, like Elaine Rich.

He'd previously been an assistant director and a production manager, so his alleged incompetence at direction -- and the going over budget because they had to re-shoot his mistakes -- just seems odd. To me.

And why did the tone change and polish evaporate with the first episode after he was gone?

In my head, I've convinced myself the Pollocks schemed to get rid of him because he was too competent.

If I'm wrong, I don't wanna be right.
 

GillesDenver

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He'd previously been an assistant director and a production manager, so his alleged incompetence at direction -- and the going over budget because they had to re-shoot his mistakes -- just seems odd. To me.
Yes, I'm not completely convinced either. Especially since a major star was ill and the shooting of "the fragment", "the shakedown" and "the two princes" was delayed then intermingled.

And why did the tone change and polish evaporate with the first episode after he was gone?
The Shapiros were not supervising season 2 and they did not return, according to Doug Cramer, until "Dynasty" was getting emmys. Meaning mid-september 1982 ("Dynasty" was nominated as Outstanding Drama Series), when they were shooting La Mirage's opening episode.

In my head, I've convinced myself the Pollocks schemed to get rid of him because he was too competent.

If I'm wrong, I don't wanna be right.
The Pollocks were writers and story editors at that time. If someone had some interest to get rid of him, it would be a producer. Elaine Rich doing more or less the same job as him, she should be the perfect culprit.
 

Daniel Avery

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I just listened to the Doug Cramer interview all the way through. It was very detailed! It was fascinating to hear how active he was in so much memorable TV. Unrelated to Dynasty, but I was especially shocked to hear he had coerced Irna Phillips into being an uncredited consultant for Peyton Place.
 
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