Elon Musk buying Twitter

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I'm not saying that we shouldn't reflect on it, regardless if we're wrong or right.

But there's something about the whole astonishment that doesn't ring true. How very Alexis of you all.

Well, you're shrewder than I, so I don't know what to say to that in response.

Except that the mainstream media and Internet outlets are patrolled, controlled and censored by those doing the establishment's bidding, and "left" or "right' has little to do with it.

But one would think concern over slippery slopes was a good idea. Did we seem "astonished"?
 

Frank Underwood

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And misinformation. And lots and lots of noise. But as long as social media is optional I don't consider it a necessity.
It's not like that medieval town's square that really was the only source of information (and even then, shouting "the king sucks!" would definitely be censored).
Misinformation and noise can be found in all media. Cable news outlets are notorious misinformation and noise outlets, yet they fear monger about social media.

The fact that sitting politicians regularly use Twitter to reach their constituents speaks to why it's become a necessity IMO. We have a generation (Gen Z) who've grown up entirely on the Internet, and that will be true of all future generations as well. How likely are they to consume print or television media over social media? I feel like some people are short sighted. The shift to digital media is only going to grow, while other forms of media will be phased out. TV and especially print media won't be around forever.

Of course I don't disagree with that emotion, it's just that "acceptable" and "logical" are not precisely the same thing.
It's almost similar to the Gay Cake Debacle: if you defend the evil bakery's right to not make the Gay Cake, does that mean you accept homophobia?
Personally I've always found it strange to think that we could force businesses to produce stuff just because we think it's they should. There's something wrong with that logic. And without logic there's little debate imo.

Besides, @Sparkly, you already know that there are conspiracies plotting against us and this has been going on looooong before the internetz. It's never stopped us from carrying on with our lives and businesses so, yes, in a way it is acceptable.
It's acceptable if you believe Twitter deserves to be a private business. That changes if you believe it should become a public utility like the telephone.

Also, a "private business" shouldn't be making decisions at the behest of the government. The government didn't tell the bakery owner to refuse service to gay couples, but they definitely told Twitter who and what to censor. It's gotten to the point where the mainstream media brazenly asks politicians why they aren't forcing social media sites to censor more, which led to a sitting Congressman saying he would like to if not for the restrictions of the first amendment. The days of being censored for shouting "the king sucks!" are supposed to be behind us. That said, I'm not "astonished" that the government tries to control the narrative by any means necessary. That's nothing new. However, I do find it extremely troubling and disgusting. The same goes for the hypocrisy of regular folks who support censorship, but only when it's used against people they hate.
 
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Gabriel Maxwell

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Elon Musk is an immigrant and he runs an electric car company. Nice. Very nice. Elon Musk is also a white, “cis”, male billionaire who likes and retweets the wrong kind of tweets. Not nice. Not nice at all. He’s a darn devil, that Musk. Or at least devil du jour till another disobedient public figure with an inconvenient identity comes along and violates the preferred groupthink.
 

Frank Underwood

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Elon Musk is an immigrant and he runs an electric car company. Nice. Very nice. Elon Musk is also a white, “cis”, male billionaire who likes and retweets the wrong kind of tweets. Not nice. Not nice at all. He’s a darn devil, that Musk. Or at least devil du jour till another disobedient public figure with an inconvenient identity comes along and violates the preferred groupthink.
Precisely right. I have my issues with Musk, but the people acting like he's uniquely evil while the previous Twitter execs were as pure as the driven snow are quite comical.

These are the same people who pretend censorship saves people from hate speech when their real goal is to control the narrative. Groupthink is a great way to put it.
 

Angela Channing

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Elon musk is slowly destroying Twitter which is a great shame. The latest change that came in over the weekend was to restrict the number of tweets you can read which is making Twitter almost unusable, unless you are prepared to pay to be a premium user.

The mainstream media landscape is dominated by right-wing multi-millionaires who are doing what they can to stifle left wing voices. Twitter always had its flaws but it gave a platform to voices and ideas that the Right want to destroy and sadly they are succeeding.
 

Gabriel Maxwell

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The mainstream media landscape is dominated by right-wing multi-millionaires who are doing what they can to stifle left wing voices.
Dominated? Legacy media in the US? Would those be some secret right-wing millionaires that have infiltrated the said media - which otherwise overwhelmingly shill for the Democrats - by purposely infusing the said organizations with wokeism to make liberals come across as stupid?

Twitter always had its flaws but it gave a platform to voices and ideas that the Right want to destroy and sadly they are succeeding.
Are there no liberals left on Twitter? Not counting those who made a diva announcement they are leaving the platform now that they can no longer control the narrative (and then came back anyway or never left in the first place)? I'm on Twitter every day and I see plenty of liberal voices, loud as ever.
 

Angela Channing

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Dominated? Legacy media in the US? Would those be some secret right-wing millionaires that have infiltrated the said media - which otherwise overwhelmingly shill for the Democrats - by purposely infusing the said organizations with wokeism to make liberals come across as stupid?


Are there no liberals left on Twitter? Not counting those who made a diva announcement they are leaving the platform now that they can no longer control the narrative (and then came back anyway or never left in the first place)? I'm on Twitter every day and I see plenty of liberal voices, loud as ever.
In the UK, 75%, of the print media is right wing and only 10% can be described as supporting the left*. Broadcast media is just as bad: the BBC management is now stuffed with Conservative Party donors and supporters and new news channels (GB News and TalkTV) are right wing. Radio is the same: LBC, Times Radio and Talk Radio are all right wing outlets.

Twitter previously was somewhere where you could get alternative opinions but Musk is doing his best to change that. Some people will applaud what he's doing but I think it's bad for democracy if the majority of the news we are fed has a right wing bias.

*Source: Tory Nation by Samuel Earle
 
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Frank Underwood

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Twitter previously was somewhere where you could get alternative opinions but Musk is doing his best to change that.
LMAO, no it wasn't! In fact, the Twitter files revealed the exact opposite was happening. Politicians (mostly Democrats) were routinely in the ears of Twitter execs telling them who and what to censor. The Twitter execs shared their ideology, so they went along with it. It wasn't just regular folks being censored either. Doctors and scientists were routinely censored as well for opposing big pharma and the establishment's Covid policies. This is on top of actual leftists being censored for having the "wrong" opinions on the Ukraine/Russia conflict and Russia-gate. Twitter's never been home to "alternative opinions." It's always been a tool used to amplify the narratives of the people who run it.

Some people will applaud what he's doing but I think it's bad for democracy if the majority of the news we are fed has a right wing bias.
I've made it clear many times that I would prefer to see Twitter treated as a public utility rather than a private company. However, the issue is bigger than Musk. I'm consistent in that I don't want anybody using Twitter to censor, control the narrative, and push their biases. That includes Musk. On the other hand, many of Musk's most ardent critics actually like censorship and narrative control as long as the faux liberals are in charge of it. If nothing else, Musk's takeover helped expose the "anti-censorship" hypocrites.
 
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Angela Channing

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LMAO, no it wasn't! In fact, the Twitter files revealed the exact opposite was happening. Politicians (mostly Democrats) were routinely in the ears of Twitter execs telling them who and what to censor. The Twitter execs shared their ideology, so they went along with it. It wasn't just regular folks being censored either. Doctors and scientists were routinely censored as well for opposing big pharma and the establishment's Covid policies. This is on top of actual leftists being censored for having the "wrong" opinions on the Ukraine/Russia conflict and Russia-gate. Twitter's never been home to "alternative opinions." It's always been a tool used to amplify the narratives of the people who run it.
I don't agree. I'll give you an example. In the UK, a big political issue has been how best to deal with high inflation. Our government and the Bank of England are saying the only way to control inflation is by putting up interest rates to reduce the amount of capital in the economy so demand for goods will fall. This line has been slavishly echoed by all mainstream media outlets, even those that are supposedly on the left.

However, on Twitter I can look at Novara Media, Double Down News and Evolve Politics, or read comments by journalists such as Ash Sarkar, Marina Purkiss and Owen Jones, or find the views of politicians such as Clive Lewis, Caroline Lucas and John McDonnell (who normally get very little mainstream media attention) to see what they are saying on the subject and unsurprisingly they suggest alternative approaches (e.g. taxing excess profits created by higher prices, more taxes on the highest earners, introducing rent controls, etc). They don't all agree but they offer credible alternatives and provide evidence which people can use to make up their own minds. Limiting the amount of tweets people can read will make it more difficult to find this information whereas the right-wing alternatives will still be readily available on all media outlets.
 
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Frank Underwood

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I don't agree. I'll give you an example. In the UK, a big political issue has been how best to deal with high inflation. Our government and the Bank of England are saying the only way to control inflation is by putting up interest rates to reduce the amount of capital in the economy so demand for goods will fall. This line has been slavishly echoed by all mainstream media outlets, even those that are supposedly on the left.

However, on Twitter I can look at Novara Media, Double Down News and Evolve Politics, or read comments by journalists such as Ash Sarkar, Marina Purkiss and Owen Jones, or find the views of politicians such as Clive Lewis, Caroline Lucas and John McDonnell (who normally get very little mainstream media attention) to see what they are saying on the subject and unsurprisingly they suggest alternative approaches (e.g. taxing excess profits created by higher prices, more taxes on the highest earners, introducing rent controls, etc). They don't all agree but they offer credible alternatives and provide evidence which people can use to make up their own minds. Limiting the amount of tweets people can read will make it more difficult to find this information whereas the right-wing alternatives will still be readily available on all media outlets.
Maybe they weren't going after UK citizens and journalists with the same fervor. I'm only aware of the targeting of Americans at the behest of the US government.

I want to reiterate that I'm not in favor of restricting access to social media or amplifying one side of an issue. However, that's precisely what was happening before Musk came along. IMO, it was even more egregious because it was heavily influenced by the US government. The Twitter files show that in detail, and the US media openly cheered it on.
 

Gabriel Maxwell

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I assumed we were talking about the US media landscape, since we were discussing the US-based social media platform Twitter and it hadn’t been specified otherwise, but now that we’re on the subject…

I could be mistaken as I’m certainly no expert on the British media, but the last time I checked, the BBC for instance were firmly in line with all that gender ideology nonsense that’s sweeping the western countries these days, using phrases like “gender assigned at birth”, etc.

As was Sky News, which — unlike the Australian version — no longer belongs to Rupert Murdoch and the new owners are Comcast who own NBC in the US, the network whose news division just the other day came up with an article defending the unhelpful “we’re here, we’re queer, we’re coming for your children” chant overheard at the Seattle Pride recently. Not exactly a conservative take on the subject matter.

At least there’s GB News now. They may have a more conservative slant, but at least they provide platform to opinions on the matters such as gender or covid that may differ from the preferred conformity.

For that reason, of course, they’re being branded “fascist”, but that’s to be expected at a time when words like racist, fascist and genocide have all lost their original meaning and are being tossed around willy-nilly to try to shut down opposing views and malign people who express them.
 

Frank Underwood

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Interestingly enough, the topic of government influence over social media companies is back in the news thanks to a recent federal ruling. The article appeared in the New York Times, so of course advocates of free speech were called Republicans/right wingers. On the other hand, the Democrats were portrayed as the good guys trying "to combat false and misleading narratives about the coronavirus pandemic and other issues." The problem is the Democrats are often the purveyors of false and misleading narratives.

Don't get me wrong, the Republicans spread their fair share of bullshit too. This difference is that, for the most part, they're not waging censorship campaigns on social media.

Federal Judge Limits Biden Officials’ Contacts With Social Media Sites​


A federal judge in Louisiana on Tuesday restricted the Biden administration from communicating with social media platforms about broad swaths of content online, a ruling that could curtail efforts to combat false and misleading narratives about the coronavirus pandemic and other issues.

The order, which could have significant First Amendment implications, is a major development in a fierce legal fight over the boundaries and limits of speech online.

It was a victory for Republicans who have often accused social media sites like Facebook, Twitter and YouTube of disproportionately taking down right-leaning content, sometimes in collaboration with government. Democrats say the platforms have failed to adequately police misinformation and hateful speech, leading to dangerous outcomes, including violence.

In the ruling, Judge Terry A. Doughty of the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Louisiana said that parts of the government, including the Department of Health and Human Services and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, could not talk to social media companies for “the purpose of urging, encouraging, pressuring, or inducing in any manner the removal, deletion, suppression, or reduction of content containing protected free speech.”

In granting a preliminary injunction, Judge Doughty said that the agencies could not flag specific posts to the social media platforms or request reports about their efforts to take down content. The ruling said that the government could still notify the platforms about posts detailing crimes, national security threats or foreign attempts to influence elections.

“If the allegations made by plaintiffs are true, the present case arguably involves the most massive attack against free speech in United States’ history,” the judge said. “The plaintiffs are likely to succeed on the merits in establishing that the government has used its power to silence the opposition.”

Courts are increasingly being forced to weigh in on such issues — with the potential to upend decades of legal norms that have governed speech online.

The Republican attorneys general of Texas and Florida are defending first-of-their-kind state laws that bar internet platforms from taking down certain political content, and legal experts believe those cases may eventually reach the Supreme Court. The high court this year declined to limit a law that allows the platforms to escape legal liability for content that users post to the sites.

The ruling on Tuesday, in a lawsuit brought by the attorneys general of Louisiana and Missouri, is likely to be appealed by the Biden administration, but its impact could force government officials, including law enforcement agencies, to refrain from notifying the platforms of troublesome content.

Government officials have argued they do not have the authority to order posts or entire accounts removed, but federal agencies and the tech giants have long worked together to take action against illegal or harmful material, especially in cases involving child sexual abuse, human trafficking and other criminal activity. That has also included regular meetings to share information on the Islamic State and other terrorist groups.

The White House said the Justice Department was reviewing the ruling and evaluating its next steps.

“Our consistent view remains that social media platforms have a critical responsibility to take account of the effects their platforms are having on the American people, but make independent choices about the information they present,” the White House said in a statement.

Meta, which owns Facebook and Instagram, declined to comment. Twitter did not have a comment, and Google did not respond to a request for comment.

Jeff Landry, the Louisiana attorney general, said in a statement that the judge’s order was “historic.” Missouri’s attorney general, Andrew Bailey, hailed the ruling as a “huge win in the fight to defend our most fundamental freedoms.” Both officials are Republican.

“What a way to celebrate Independence Day,” Mr. Bailey said on Twitter.

The issue of the government’s influence over social media has become increasingly partisan.

The Republican majority in the House has taken up the cause, smothering universities and think tanks that have studied the issue with onerous requests for information and subpoenas.

The judge’s order bars government agencies from communicating with some of those outside groups, including the Election Integrity Partnership, the Virality Project and the Stanford Internet Observatory, in order to induce the removal of protected speech online. Alex Stamos, the director of the Stanford Internet Observatory, which was involved in leading the two other projects, declined to comment.

Since acquiring Twitter last year, Elon Musk has echoed Republican arguments, releasing internal company documents to chosen journalists suggesting what they claimed was collusion between company and government officials. Though that remains far from proven, some of the documents Mr. Musk disclosed ended up in the lawsuit’s arguments.

The defendants, the social media companies and experts who study disinformation have argued that there is no evidence of a systematic effort by the government to censor individuals in violation of the First Amendment. David Rand, an expert on misinformation at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said his understanding was that the government had at most a limited impact on how social media platforms engaged with misinformation.

At the same time, emails and text messages made public in the case that Judge Doughty ruled on have shown instances where officials complained to social media executives when influential users spread disinformation, especially involving the coronavirus pandemic.

The states said in their lawsuit that they had a “sovereign and proprietary interest in receiving free flow of information in public discourse on social-media platforms.”

In addition to the Missouri and Louisiana attorneys general, the case was brought by four other plaintiffs: Jayanta Bhattacharya and Martin Kulldorff, epidemiologists who questioned the government’s handling of the pandemic; Aaron Kheriaty, a professor dismissed by the University of California, Irvine, for refusing to have a coronavirus vaccination; Jill Hines, a director of Health Freedom Louisiana, an organization that has been accused of disinformation; and Jim Hoft, founder of Gateway Pundit, a right-wing news site. The four additional plaintiffs said social media sites removed some of their posts.

Although the lawsuit named as defendants President Biden and dozens of officials in 11 government agencies, some of the instances cited took place during the Trump administration.

Judge Doughty, who was appointed to the federal court by President Donald J. Trump in 2017, has been sympathetic to conservative cases, having previously blocked the Biden administration’s national vaccination mandate for health care workers and overturned its ban on new federal leases for oil and gas drilling.

He allowed the plaintiffs extensive discovery and depositions from prominent officials like Anthony S. Fauci, then the nation’s top infectious disease expert, who told the plaintiffs’ lawyers that he was not involved in any discussions to censor content online.

Some experts in First Amendment law and misinformation criticized the Tuesday ruling.

“It can’t be that the government violates the First Amendment simply by engaging with the platforms about their content-moderation decisions and policies,” said Jameel Jaffer, the executive director of the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University. “If that’s what the court is saying here, it’s a pretty radical proposition that isn’t supported by the case law.”

Mr. Jaffer added that the government has to balance between calling out false speech without stepping into informal coercion that veers toward censorship. “Unfortunately Judge Doughty’s order doesn’t reflect a serious effort to reconcile the competing principles,” he said.

Judge Doughty’s ruling said the injunction would remain in place while proceedings in the lawsuit continued unless he or a higher court ruled differently.

Source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...p&cvid=20cefecec023469e8dda0e94ddb56760&ei=11
 
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Snarky Oracle!

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“It can’t be that the government violates the First Amendment simply by engaging with the platforms about their content-moderation decisions and policies,” said Jameel Jaffer, the executive director of the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University. “If that’s what the court is saying here, it’s a pretty radical proposition that isn’t supported by the case law.”

Mr. Jaffer added that the government has to balance between calling out false speech without stepping into informal coercion that veers toward censorship

Let me see if I get this right (and I may not, because I'm dumbish) but they're saying it's a matter of protecting free speech that we permit squelching of free speech?
 

Frank Underwood

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Let me see if I get this right (and I may not, because I'm dumbish) but they're saying it's a matter of protecting free speech that we permit squelching of free speech?
That's how I understood it as well. It seems they want to redefine free speech as government approved speech. Biden launched a "disinformation governance board," which is basically a fancy name for ministry of truth. They think they have the right to tell us what's true and what isn't, rather than allowing us the right to use our own discernment.
 

Gabriel Maxwell

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I have a lib friend who is actively hoping for Threads, which has already been dubbed by the ever-helpful media as “Twitter Killer”, to take Twitter out of business.

Hoping for people to lose jobs (still thousands of them left despite the firing spree after Musk’s late October 2022 takeover) in exchange for owning that “right-wing loon” Musk. Not very liberal of him, is it? (unlike me, he doesn’t actually have a Twitter account, but trust me — he knows all about the sudden increase in “hate speech” under Musk). And how is Mark Zuckerberg suddenly a paragon of virtue? But apparently they’ll have to wait a tad longer.

There have been many stories about Threads’ blockbuster acquisition of 100 million users in the first week alone — not a surprise given its tie by default to the already existing Instagram infrastructure. But the usage including average minutes spent has fallen off. Precipitously.


That of course doesn’t mean Threads can’t under any circumstances take Twitter out of business in the long run, or that Twitter could actually crash (last week all tweets were invisible for an hour) — anything is possible, but they’ll have to ease up on the gloating for the time being.

Apparently a bare-bones and rushed copy of Twitter where you’ll get censored or suspended if you say things beyond the allowed groupthink — at one point only suggesting Covid-19 may have leaked from the Wuhan gain-of-function lab instead of coming organically from the Wuhan wet market was definitively branded as racist misinformation — is not that compelling after all, especially if you came from picture-focused Instagram and perhaps care less about discussions.

Still it’s fascinating how powerful the media eco chamber can be. I had people saying goodbye to me on Twitter back in November 2022. Though they were on the platform and they could see for themselves it was business as usual, they were persuaded Twitter was about to crash and shut down “this weekend”. For the media told them so. Sounds a bit like one of those Kool-Aid cults.
 

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In a totally predictable move by a right-winger who claims to be fighting for free speech, when someone else uses their free speech to criticise him, Elon Musk threatens to sue them.

I've always believed his objective for Twitter has been to silence left-wing opinions and amplify right-wing ones and is using free speech as a cover to give legitimacy for what he is doing.

 

Frank Underwood

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In a totally predictable move by a right-winger who claims to be fighting for free speech, when someone else uses their free speech to criticise him, Elon Musk threatens to sue them.

I've always believed his objective for Twitter has been to silence left-wing opinions and amplify right-wing ones and is using free speech as a cover to give legitimacy for what he is doing.

I'm not sure I fully grasp why Musk is suing Media Matters (I assume it's based on libel since he disputes their claim that ads were placed on antisemitic content.)

Whatever the reason, there are other conclusive examples of Musk not living up to his purported support of free speech.

That said, I don't think it's because Musk is a right winger. It's blatantly obvious that the elites who run tech companies want to control the narrative, regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum. The previous Democrat-supporting Twitter team worked in tandem with the US government to censor dissidents and amplify neoliberal voices.

Tech billionaires are essentially kings and we're their subjects. They get to arbitrarily pick and choose what's acceptable to post on their precious platforms and what isn't.
 
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