Miss Ellie Seemed To Accept Infidelities.

Billy Wall

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Not only that, she in a round about way, guilt trip others into accepting it. Let me explain. I just saw the episode where Jenna comes to talk to Miss Ellie about Ray’s affair with that crazy woman. Jenna obviously wasn’t going to take him back, but Miss Ellie gave her some bull about “what walking out on Ray might do to him.” And she told her about Ray’s lack of self esteem and that every deserves a second chance (which is true to a certain extent). She also used the same line she used with Sue Ellen by implying that Jenna couldn’t survive on her own.

I like Miss Ellie, but she really set women back with some of her advice her character would definitely have to be re-worked if it was today.
 

Snarky Oracle

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She secretly knows JR is the spawn of Digger Barnes.

So she's over-compensating. We all do it.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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I was never a fan of Miss Ellie. I always thought that she was happy to live the life of wealth and privilege, while chastising Jock and JR for their
methods of achieving it.
Her abandonment of JR emotionally, favoring of Gary and Bobby, and letting Jock teach JR the best and worst of the Oil business created the man that JR became.
She had to know that JR was cheating on Sue Elle, yet continued to enable..

She didn't seem to respect Jock's memory - trying to sell Ewing Oil(at least twice), trying to have Jock declared incompetent, marrying Clayton (a sworn enemy of JR, a man who tried to take JR's wife and son), giving half of Southfork to Clayton, etc.

She was a self-entitled hypocrite. Not to mention she married Jock to save Southfork, not for love, and ...is it possible that Digger was JR's biological father?
 
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Taylor Bennett Jr.

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I always thought it was interesting that when Miss Ellie was upbraiding JR in an early season for his mistreatment of Sue Ellen over the years, the speech peaked in emotional intensity with the line “you didn’t even bother to be discreet most of the time!” It’s like she was most upset with JR for flouting the etiquette of respectable philandering, of all things.
 
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Snarky Oracle

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I was never a fan of Miss Ellie. I always thought that she was happy to live the life of wealth and privilege, while chastising Jock and JR for their
methods of achieving it.
Her abandonment of JR emotionally, favoring of Gary and Bobby, and letting Jock teach JR the best and worst of the Oil business created the man that JR became.
She had to know that JR was cheating on Sue Elle, yet continued to enable..

She didn't seem to respect Jock's memory - trying to sell Ewing Oil(at least twice), trying to have Jock declared incompetent, marrying Clayton (a sworn enemy of JR, a man who tried to take JR's wife and son), giving half of Southfork to Clayton, etc.

She was a self-entitled hypocrite. Not to mention she married Jock to save Southfork, not for love, and ...is it possible that Digger was JR's biological father?

But wasn't everybody a self-entitled hypocrite? Is Ellie all the worse because she dithers about it -- at least when her denial isn't fully active?

"Think 25 or 30 years ahead, Sue Ellen -- don't you think you sluts and whores will still disgust me?? -- Well, you will!"
 

DallasFanForever

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Was she that accepting of infidelity though? She took both Jock and Clayton to task over Julie and Laurel and neither one of those situations went as far as being actual cheating. She certainly didn’t seem to be that accepting then. Of course, there was the situation with Jock having his affair in the war that ended up producing Ray. She did seem to accept that pretty well, even if accepting Ray took much longer.
 

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Miss Ellie’s morals are pretty flexible. She’s actually an awful person if you examine her actions too closely: 1) Emotionally abandoning JR as a child; 2) openly playing favorites with her sons; 3) emotionally blackmailing those sons in order to keep them on her beloved ranch, even as adults; 4) marrying a man because his wealth could save that ranch; 5) raising a granddaughter and going along with a plan to deny that child’s mother the opportunity to raise her.
 

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She secretly knows JR is the spawn of Digger Barnes.

So she's over-compensating. We all do it.

Yes Ben Stivers or do I mean Jock Ewing wasn't his Daddy at all.

Mind you if Digger wasn't his Father I have a funny feeling that Wes Parmalee was.

Which reminds me Digger was two faced, one minute he's David Wayne the next minute he's Keenan Wynn!! ;)
 

Taylor Bennett Jr.

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Yes Ben Stivers or do I mean Jock Ewing wasn't his Daddy at all.

Mind you if Digger wasn't his Father I have a funny feeling that Wes Parmalee was.

Which reminds me Digger was two faced, one minute he's David Wayne the next minute he's Keenan Wynn!! ;)
when you work out all these permutations to their logical conclusion, including the unclear paternity (the methods of testing weren’t completely accurate in those days), somehow John Ross ends up being his own grandfather and simultaneously Christopher’s half-uncle and half-nephew.
 

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Miss Ellie’s morals are pretty flexible. She’s actually an awful person if you examine her actions too closely: 1) Emotionally abandoning JR as a child; 2) openly playing favorites with her sons; 3) emotionally blackmailing those sons in order to keep them on her beloved ranch, even as adults; 4) marrying a man because his wealth could save that ranch; 5) raising a granddaughter and going along with a plan to deny that child’s mother the opportunity to raise her.
Certainly puts a new perspective on her. I would have loved a scene in which a character called her out on some of these things.
 

Billy Wall

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Certainly puts a new perspective on her. I would have loved a scene in which a character called her out on some of these things.

The closest was Rebecca when after Cliff’s suicide attempt, Miss Ellie pretty much said let’s end the feud now that Cliff has survived. Rebecca told her “would you be so quick to forgive if one of your sons was laying in the hospital?”
 

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Miss Ellie’s morals are pretty flexible. She’s actually an awful person if you examine her actions too closely: 1) Emotionally abandoning JR as a child; 2) openly playing favorites with her sons; 3) emotionally blackmailing those sons in order to keep them on her beloved ranch, even as adults; 4) marrying a man because his wealth could save that ranch; 5) raising a granddaughter and going along with a plan to deny that child’s mother the opportunity to raise her.

I'm not sure if I see Miss Ellie as really doing all those things egregiously --- well, maybe kinda-sorta.

She admits to some of it though. so does she not get brownie points for occasional honesty??

"Giimeegimmee gimmeegimeee, you buncha bastards!"
 
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Jock Ewing Fan

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Miss Ellie’s morals are pretty flexible. She’s actually an awful person if you examine her actions too closely: 1) Emotionally abandoning JR as a child; 2) openly playing favorites with her sons; 3) emotionally blackmailing those sons in order to keep them on her beloved ranch, even as adults; 4) marrying a man because his wealth could save that ranch; 5) raising a granddaughter and going along with a plan to deny that child’s mother the opportunity to raise her.
I fully agree. I would add that she dated and married Clayton, a man who tried to marry JR's wife and kept Jr's son from him, invited him to the Ewing barbecue! and then decided to give half of Southfork to Clayton, totally disrespecting Jock and disregarding his sons' birthright. She was also willing to give Southfork to
an absentee brother, disregarding Jock's work on it and his saving the ranch in the first place. She also tried to have Jock declared incompetent.

She had the nerve to lecture Jenna about living with Ray after Bobby dumped her.


I will never understand the Hero worship that some people have for this self-centered hypocrite of a character.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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I'm not sure if I see Miss Ellie as really doing all those things egregiously --- well, maybe kinda-sorta.

She admits to some of it though. so does she not get brownie points for occasional honesty??

"Giimeegimmee gimmeegimeee, you buncha bastards!"
No, I don't think she gets any points. Her whole existence was self-serving, hypocritical and parasitical (Is that a word?)
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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The closest was Rebecca when after Cliff’s suicide attempt, Miss Ellie pretty much said let’s end the feud now that Cliff has survived. Rebecca told her “would you be so quick to forgive if one of your sons was laying in the hospital?”
No she wouldn't if it was Gary or Bobby, but I am not so sure about JR, since she was a horrible mother to him. No wonder he became who he was.
I saw very little evidence in the series that she had any motherly love for him. Interestingly, the only times I could recall was when he was shot the first time, and when the Donna Reed version told Sue Ellen that their marriage was always rocky, and that Ewing Oil and JR's father were one in the same to him, and that he needed her support.
 
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Jock Ewing Fan

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But wasn't everybody a self-entitled hypocrite? Is Ellie all the worse because she dithers about it -- at least when her denial isn't fully active?

"Think 25 or 30 years ahead, Sue Ellen -- don't you think you sluts and whores will still disgust me?? -- Well, you will!"
I think their is context to some characters, and degrees to others.
Not all were as equally culpable
I thought Miss Ellie and Pam were the two worst, both self-centered whiny hypocrites who were incapable of
admitting their faults.

Jock, JR, Ray, Lucy, Cliff and even Bobby had more self-awareness about why they took certain actions, although it wasn't a high bar.

Donna was probably the closest to being unhypocritical, except that she married a powerful man
before Ray.
 

Billy Wall

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I was never a fan of Miss Ellie. I always thought that she was happy to live the life of wealth and privilege, while chastising Jock and JR for their
methods of achieving it.
Her abandonment of JR emotionally, favoring of Gary and Bobby, and letting Jock teach JR the best and worst of the Oil business created the man that JR became.
She had to know that JR was cheating on Sue Elle, yet continued to enable..

She didn't seem to respect Jock's memory - trying to sell Ewing Oil(at least twice), trying to have Jock declared incompetent, marrying Clayton (a sworn enemy of JR, a man who tried to take JR's wife and son), giving half of Southfork to Clayton, etc.

She was a self-entitled hypocrite. Not to mention she married Jock to save Southfork, not for love, and ...is it possible that Digger was JR's biological father?

Ellie had her faults, but letting JR go was not one of them. Since when does anybody, including Miss Ellie, “let” Jock do anything? Jock wasn’t going to let his boys be raised by a woman. That’s why he and Gary never got along. Gary wasn’t into proving how “‘manly” he was.

As for her trying to sell Ewing Oil. What was she supposed to do while JR and Bobby acted like they had no sense? How many lives were destroyed because of the battle for Ewing Oil? Even JR and Bobby tried to end the contest after it got out of hand.

And I wouldn’t consider Clayton a sworn enemy of JR. That would be Cliff Barnes. I didn’t agree with Clayton going after his son’s ex, but Sue Ellen was not with JR at the time.

Now that I think about since I’ve recently seen that episode, she should not have given half of Southfork to Clayton. In real life, both JR and Bobby would have left immediately.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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Ellie had her faults, but letting JR go was not one of them. Since when does anybody, including Miss Ellie, “let” Jock do anything? Jock wasn’t going to let his boys be raised by a woman. That’s why he and Gary never got along. Gary wasn’t into proving how “‘manly” he was.

As for her trying to sell Ewing Oil. What was she supposed to do while JR and Bobby acted like they had no sense? How many lives were destroyed because of the battle for Ewing Oil? Even JR and Bobby tried to end the contest after it got out of hand.

And I wouldn’t consider Clayton a sworn enemy of JR. That would be Cliff Barnes. I didn’t agree with Clayton going after his son’s ex, but Sue Ellen was not with JR at the time.

Now that I think about since I’ve recently seen that episode, she should not have given half of Southfork to Clayton. In real life, both JR and Bobby would have left immediately.
You make some good points.

Indeed Jock was not one to be told what to do. My point could have been stated better - that Miss Ellie basically enabled JR's behavior - surely she would have noticed
JR becoming more difficult as time passed.

The battle for Ewing Oil - JR said it well when Miss Ellie tried to overturn the will and said " Bobby, she wants to give half our inheritance to a drunk and a cowboy'
Reality is that battles to lead companies can be quite intense. This being a family company, maybe there was a better way to handle it.
Clayton was certainly an adversary to JR, they never had a friendly relationship.
When Miss Ellie gave half of Southfork to Clayton, even Bobby was not pleased.

Again, you make some good points. I think that in fan forums, Miss Ellie is not held accountable for her flaws too often.
 
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