To be honest, I never use them. Even when I have deep set stains like red wine or chocolate. I don't really care how much much people say they are the ******g bollocks, I just don't rate them. Tell you what I do rate though - those new salt free Oxo Cubes. If you've got a nice, tender beef joint for the weekend, you can do a lot worse than make a nice tasty gravy with a hint of red wine to go with it. Salt free as well which has got to be a good thing. Not like those Golden Wonder multipacks of cheese & onion crisps - absolutely full of salt. Makes me mad just thinking about them.