nuDynasty Episode Chat S4E02: Vows Are Still Sacred

Brian Kinney

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Of course, not a world about Steven. Not a world about Monica, her so called best friend. Of course it's Fallon's wedding. Shy would she care about her beloved brother or so called best friend?

We know that Monica is coming back, so they have no excuse. They could mention her.
They did mention Monica. Why should they mention Steven? Were Amanda or Fallon mentioned when Adam married Dana? I don't think so. As a viewer I don't need a reminder what was important to Fallon two seasons ago. And in reality the last thing you care about at your wedding are people who are not there
 

thomaswak

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They did mention Monica. Why should they mention Steven? Were Amanda or Fallon mentioned when Adam married Dana? I don't think so. As a viewer I don't need a reminder what was important to Fallon two seasons ago.

Maybe you can tell that to those 2,9K viewers who approved this comment:
Steven.jpg

You see, viewers need a reminder that Steven was important to the Carringtons, two seasons ago. They don't like that "they all just forgot Steven".

Your comparison with OG Dynasty is interesting, and tends to prove my point actually : seasons 7 & 8 writing was not the best to say the least. And at the time, the situation was different : viewers knew that Fallon was alive in The Colbys, and nobody cared about Amanda after the recast.

As you're taking OG Dynasty to compare (thanks for that), when Fallon 1 was gone during season 5 (you know, when the show was still good and correctly written) they never stopped to mention her, a way or an other. Something that Nu Dynasty is failing to do with Steven.

Once, I compared the show's writing with Game Of Thrones writing :

I think that Steven was a beloved character. And most of us think he deserved better than being in limbo, ignored by his own family. That's just bad writing. Yes, he's in a facility in Paris. Yes, it was the character's decision to stay there. Fallon, Sam, respected his decision. That's fine. But what is not fine, is that they now behave like he just never existed. Not even a word about him. We don't need Fallon to talk about Steven 24/24 : just one or two mention of him in a season would be enough. Like Fallon telling to Liam that she wished Steven would be here for her wedding. Alexis saying to Adam that she misses her other son, and wished Adam could meet him (as Alexis doesn't know Adam already met Steven). Unfortunately Dynasty is too much (mostly weak) plot driven than character driven. Now it seems like the writers just want fun dialogues & silly situations... Fun dialogues and silly situations are great. I love them. But that's not enough. The show needs characters driven plots. And good ones. I was watching a George RR Martin interview (the writer of the Game Of Thrones books) and he was explaining what good writing was (in his opinion). Good writing is having the death or absence of a character a real impact on the remaining ones. It's not something you process and get over with, in one day or one episode. Think about Cristal/Celia's death, and how little impact it had on the characters. Blake mourned her like what, 1 episode? It doesn't matter for the fans that he mourned her for weeks off screen. We also needed to mourn Celia with the characters. The writers robbed us of that, in favor of Cristal 2, jumping in the Carrington's manor and in Blake's bed in no time, when we were still missing and grieving Celia. That's bad writing. That's stupid. And worst, from a writing standpoint, it's inconsequential. George RR Martin insisted on the fact that actions, decisions, should have real consequences. And that's also why his books are so brilliant. (The show is a different beast. The 4 first seasons, based on the books, are amazing. The rest is a mixed bag of very good to mediocre episodes).

I binge watched Game Of Thrones lately, it was amazing that missing/gone/dead characters were still mentioned many years/seasons later. Characters mattered. George RR Martin also insisted on saying that his books were character driven, and not plot driven.

About real life weddings we'll have to agree to disagree. I have a huge family, when a brother or a sister is missing, we talk about their absence right before/right after a wedding... Even the groom, even the bride. Of course, this is only true when you have been raised in a loving family who cares about the others and are able to feel compassion.

Anyway, to be back on the subject, like it or not, the Steven situation is the elephant in the room. And to be honest, I know that you just can't stand when I mention it. Because you always deny my feelings and thoughts about it. I feel when people kinda resent me, like you or Tommie. Maybe I am paranoid (and that's MY problem). But you know what, I am gonna trust my guts feelings. Maybe from now, you can ignore my comments, like I will ignore yours.
 
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thomaswak

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As this episode was based on their script for season 3 finale, their next episode will kinda be their season 4 premiere. What a strange covid time, for TV shows...
 
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Daniel Avery

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Fallon stated that there was a delay involving the construction of a girls' school that Monica is building. If you have to have an excuse to stand Fallon up, then I guess the woke-r the excuse, the better. But the throwaway line contradicts why Monica departed in the first place, which was to create/promote a new Club Colby in New York, where she would also launch/nurture Vanessa's singing career.
 

thomaswak

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Fallon stated that there was a delay involving the construction of a girls' school that Monica is building. If you have to have an excuse to stand Fallon up, then I guess the woke-r the excuse, the better. But the throwaway line contradicts why Monica departed in the first place, which was to create/promote a new Club Colby in New York, where she would also launch/nurture Vanessa's singing career.

It's true. Monica was supposed to take care of Vanessa's NY career. So basically, Monica went from a charity to an other :lol:
 

Brian Kinney

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Anyway, to be back on the subject, like it or not, the Steven situation is the elephant in the room. And to be honest, I know that you just can't stand when I mention it. Because you always deny my feelings and thoughts about it. I feel when people kinda resent me, like you or Tommie. Maybe I am paranoid (and that's MY problem). But you know what, I am gonna trust my guts feelings.

Yes it's your problem. Don't turn it into mine.


But the throwaway line contradicts why Monica departed in the first place, which was to create/promote a new Club Colby in New York, where she would also launch/nurture Vanessa's singing career.
I hope that means Vanessa is away forever.
 
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thomaswak

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Yes it's your problem. Don't turn it into mine.

You can't stop proving my points, can you? Thanks anyway, with such a benevolent answer, now I know that my guts feelings were right.
Good. Now I can literally put you in my ignore list. You should do the same.
 
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Matthew Blaisdel

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I'm not sure if i'd really want Steven back, as they'd probably recast him with just some actor. I don't know. Maybe it's best to leave that character in the past, when the show was still a little decent.
Now it's just utter nonsense and i feel embarrassed that it shares the title with my all time favorite prime time soap.
 

thomaswak

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I'm not sure if i'd really want Steven back, as they'd probably recast him with just some actor. I don't know. Maybe it's best to leave that character in the past, when the show was still a little decent.
Now it's just utter nonsense and i feel embarrassed that it shares the title with my all time favorite prime time soap.

About your first point: actually, I was reading many comments about Steven in social medias, and fans either wants his return, or a resolution about the character. I belong to the latest camp. Not that I would not enjoy his return, but for me (and it seems I am not alone on this) the worst is that the writers make the characters forget that Steven ever existed. I would prefer the writers to actually kill the character than letting him in that unresolved limbo.

About your second point: What kinda saddens me is that a few actors are so adamant to say that the show is its "own" thing now, that it has almost nothing to do with the OG now... It's like they're a bit ashamed to be a reboot of the OG.

Did you watched the seasons premiere and the second episode? I did not enjoyed latest episode. It didn't flow naturally. I think it's the results of the covid restrictions and scripts changes, but the episode didn't work for me ( imo the season premiere worked better)

What scares me a bit, is that watching a few promo interviews from the actors, I noticed they all say seasons 4 is the best, that the season is crazy, that a lot of things happens non stop... Yes, but is the writing good? Are the crazy things character driven? It seems that this year, a Desperate Housewives writer has joined the team. I should dig more information about this.
 
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Willie Oleson

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So they could, indeed, mention Steven too.
I don't think that's how it works in soaps, or any series for that matter.
When a character is gone for good (or won't return in the foreseeable future) there's no advantage in keeping that character relevant.
If anything, it's only going to confuse and frustrate viewers even more.
It's like when someone mentions a headache, that's not without reason. It means there's going to be a brain tumor storyline.
And if Fallon remembers him then the show remembers him, and then it looks like the beginning of something and viewers expect him to return.
 

thomaswak

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I don't think that's how it works in soaps, or any series for that matter.
When a character is gone for good (or won't return in the foreseeable future) there's no advantage in keeping that character relevant.
If anything, it's only going to confuse and frustrate viewers even more.
It's like when someone mentions a headache, that's not without reason. It means there's going to be a brain tumor storyline.
And if Fallon remembers him then the show remembers him, and then it looks like the beginning of something and viewers expect him to return.

Genuine question : have you watched Game Of Thrones? It's the most soapy kind of heroic fantasy series. Many characters gone for good are regularly mentioned, even years after.

Same with OG Fallon. She was dead, and they didn't plan to bring her back (trying to replace her with Amanda), yet, Fallon was mentioned many, many times during season 5.

In OG Dallas, when Mrs Ellie travelled overseas, she was also mentioned from time to time.

Even "stupid" sitcoms like Mom mentioned dead characters years after their passing, like Viktor, or Alvin. Even Christy (not dead, but gone as the actress left the show for the finale season) was mentioned in the show, while 100% absent.

In Two & a Half Men, Charlie Harper is mentioned oftenly for 4 years.

In Fear the Walking Dead, Madison is gone (we don't know if she's really dead or not), but she's regularly mentioned too. It's already been 2 years and a half that Madison is gone. And spoilers : she will be mentioned again in next week episode (6x14)

Those are a few examples I can think of. But I am pretty sure there are many, many more.

"In the land of soap operas, characters come and go every week. Some leave town, others simply stop showing up onscreen (but are still mentioned now and again), and some pass away. "
 
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Willie Oleson

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Genuine question : have you watched Game Of Thrones?
I'd rather not say.
She was dead, and they didn't plan to bring her back (trying to replace her with Amanda), yet, Fallon was mentioned many, many times during season 5
Her death/maybe not-death/resurrection was more like a non-stop storyline.
In OG Dallas, when Mrs Ellie travelled overseas, she was also mentioned from time to time
In Dallas there's never a reason not to mention Miss Ellie.
In Fear the Walking Dead, Madison is gone (we don't know if she's really dead or not), but she's regularly mentioned too
If the whole point of Madison's disappearance is that she's missing then it becomes sort of an indefinite plotline, but Steven Anders was never missing. Dynasty simply didn't want to use him anymore. Not on screen and not in conversation. He's deader than dead.
 

tommie

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Same with OG Fallon. She was dead, and they didn't plan to bring her back (trying to replace her with Amanda), yet, Fallon was mentioned many, many times during season 5.
Except that's not true - The Colbys (or rather Dynasty II) was already in development rather early on in the season and the idea was always to spin-off Fallon and Jeff. That's why they gave her the ending they did rather than everyone definitively seeing her die on screen- they were always planning to bring her back for the spin-off and they had negotiations for Pamela Sue Martin for quite a few months.

But yes, Fallon's disappearance was a storyline in itself - Steven's isn't. Fallon, Blake et al believes he's distanced himself from the family to give himself some room. Will we eventually get to know Steven's fate... well maybe. Who's in the coffin after all?
 

Daniel Avery

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There is no "correct" approach for this dilemma. No matter how they handle the absence of Steven, it will appear that some people approve and most do not. That's because social media/internet has always given a louder voice to detractors over supporters. The producers likely feel that no matter how they work "Absent Steven" into dialogue or plotlines, they'll be told it's not enough because he's not actually onscreen, that having characters talking about him will only fan the flames. If they can't commit to re-activating the character, then they have to ignore him. Perhaps if they had not left him in such a high-jeopardy situation, his absence could be dealt with via occasional throwaway lines---the way they explained Monica's absence from the wedding.

Conventional wisdom is that his departure was a network decision, not the producers, so the producers might feel a bit resentful of social media scorn heaped upon them over something that they did not control. But obviously it was all done behind closed doors so it's not possible to know if the criticism is being directed in the right direction. I do know that it has been a long time since these decisions were made. Continuing to allow one unpopular decision to cast a shadow over everything we watch only takes away from the enjoyment of what they're trying to do with the show. Obviously we can hope they change their minds at some point and revisit the character, but that glimmer of hope should be kept in proportion. I mean, I'd love for them to mend fences with Nathalie Kelley to bring her back in some capacity, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one, either.
 

Willie Oleson

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Who's in the coffin after all?
Maybe it's a fake funeral a la Gary Ewing. Fallon tries to trick Adam, or vice versa.

Killing off Steven at this point is also not a very smart move. It's not going to satisfy the fans who want him back, and he's still the perfect tool to bring down the nasty Adam once and for all - even if that happens in the very last episode. Maybe that would be the most dramatic thing to do. Hello brother, bye bye.

I don't think it's one of the characters who are useful in the romance department, definitely not Liam, Culhane, Adam or Kirby. And Sammy Jo has always been a fan favourite.
Monica is expensive because of her glamorous outfits but she's never been a terribly useful character.

But, hey, never mind. I'm not going to get caught up in another soap-coffin mystery.
 

tommie

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Killing off Steven at this point is also not a very smart move. It's not going to satisfy the fans who want him back, and he's still the perfect tool to bring down the nasty Adam once and for all - even if that happens in the very last episode. Maybe that would be the most dramatic thing to do. Hello brother, bye bye.
I agree - the writers clearly have no intention to bring down Adam at this point, especially as they have at least another season to fill with material after this one. If Fallon commented that "I've tried to reach Steven and I can't get a hold of him" then everyone would assume that he'd be on his way back, especially as Anders has been investigating his past.

I do like the idea of him coming back in the last episode to bring down Adam.
 

thomaswak

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I'd rather not say.

Her death/maybe not-death/resurrection was more like a non-stop storyline.

In Dallas there's never a reason not to mention Miss Ellie.

If the whole point of Madison's disappearance is that she's missing then it becomes sort of an indefinite plotline, but Steven Anders was never missing. Dynasty simply didn't want to use him anymore. Not on screen and not in conversation. He's deader than dead.

You forgot to find an explanation for Mom and Two & a Half men. And for Game Of Thrones characters.
 
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