Mark Graison's Persistence In Going After Pam

darkshadows38

Telly Talk Star
i always say that there are characters you love to hate than there are characters that you really hate and with a passion there's a few on Dallas for the years that i have season which is up until bobby's death to be fair. Willie Garr and his stooge of a partner for one, Mark G. is another now if it was me i'd be fine if my wife had guy friends but there's guy friends and than there's Mark who if i recall pretty much stalked her and didn't give a shit that she was married or not.

yes they were separated if i recall but they were legally still married, but than he was going after her even before that if i recall too. i do think he should have punched him in the face and i dunno why he never did i mean look how many times he Slugged JR through the years over a remark about Pam, why not hit the guy that's trying to bed your wife?

i have women friends who are married but i'm not trying to sleep with any of them and if i was it would be when i knew 100% it was over and they were within days of signing the papers. with Mark no he didn't care at all, he took advantage of her feelings when her and Bobby were having issues and used them for his own game, yeah Jenna you could say did the same but she wasn't as bad as he was not that i recall though. if i recall she did wait a bit longer and if i recall Bobby did pursue her after the divorce
 

Billy Wall

Telly Talk Dream Maker
i always say that there are characters you love to hate than there are characters that you really hate and with a passion there's a few on Dallas for the years that i have season which is up until bobby's death to be fair. Willie Garr and his stooge of a partner for one, Mark G. is another now if it was me i'd be fine if my wife had guy friends but there's guy friends and than there's Mark who if i recall pretty much stalked her and didn't give a shit that she was married or not.

yes they were separated if i recall but they were legally still married, but than he was going after her even before that if i recall too. i do think he should have punched him in the face and i dunno why he never did i mean look how many times he Slugged JR through the years over a remark about Pam, why not hit the guy that's trying to bed your wife?

i have women friends who are married but i'm not trying to sleep with any of them and if i was it would be when i knew 100% it was over and they were within days of signing the papers. with Mark no he didn't care at all, he took advantage of her feelings when her and Bobby were having issues and used them for his own game, yeah Jenna you could say did the same but she wasn't as bad as he was not that i recall though. if i recall she did wait a bit longer and if i recall Bobby did pursue her after the divorce

I just happened to watch the episode where Mark delivered flowers to Pam yesterday. Mark was definitely wrong in his constant pursuit of Pam, but you have to put more of the blame on Pam. When he said that they WILL see each other again, she gave him a very so small smile. That’s all most guys need.
 
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Sarah

Moderator Emerita
How picky we are and how we forget about details. Mark also "saw his father die" and could do nothing about it. The ladies he dated were high-society beeches (like the one who said to Pam "you must be great in the sack"...!!!). And he only had one close friend, and that was the very huggable Jerry Kenderson. I myself have nothing against mustaches, whenever they are clean and well-cut...

Using Leonard Katzman words: "Mark was more perfect than Bobby and Pam did not deserve less. His only fault was his illness." I wish he could read all this bashing of poor Mark. Besides, when he came back from Hong-Kong, he started a fund-raising and gave poor dumb Sue Ellen a job (her first!). He clearly was too good for the "Dallas" world!

You play nice Piggy. Sue Ellen wasn't dumb. Proved herself to be anything but! That really isn't a fair comment dear. You gonna play that card, bring it on my love! What's wrong with giving someone a job?

Personally I prefer Bobby to Mark, so don't really see why he's seen as 'perfect'?

 
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darkshadows38

Telly Talk Star
you are right she should have made it more clear but than he should have known better too to not pursue a woman that's married. i've never done it and i don't plan on doing it, you do that and there's so much drama and it's just not worth it, especially if kids are involved. now if the marriage is over and you have proof of that where for example a friend at work he still lives with his wife for the sake of their i think their daughter is 16 now? but they tried be separated and it was to hard on their daughter so they are waiting till she's 18 to divorce.

i don't have kids so i can't say that's stupid or smart but i do get that either way. i'm also not married either nor have i been through that either, but guys should know better and so should women as well. i've always said and yeah i do get this from my folks if you are going to cheat why even get married? there's nothing wrong with playing the field but not when you are married, i did forget to add that my friend's wife has boyfriends and my friend doesn't give a damn about it or not cause he just wants it to be over. anyways, Pam should have known better too, she was like a Mother Hen when Bobby got Near Jenna for example in early Dallas and she was right to be worried but than she goes with Mark?

i don't get it do you?
 

lbf522

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
Pam has some responsibility. She should have stopped encouraging Mark from the very beginning by making it clear in no uncertain terms that she's married and not come around anymore.
I love that it was JR who called her out
on this.:bang:

Absolutely! As I have said, I have seen this scenerio on movies and shows over the years where some pushy man or woman shows inappropriate attention to a married woman or man and the married person likes the attention and does not tell the person to back off.

So yes indeed Pamela is at fault here. A married woman has no business going to Europe (or anywhere) with a man who is not her husband.

I also loved JR calling her out.
 

Toni

Maximum Member
Absolutely! As I have said, I have seen this scenerio on movies and shows over the years where some pushy man or woman shows inappropriate attention to a married woman or man and the married person likes the attention and does not tell the person to back off.

So yes indeed Pamela is at fault here. A married woman has no business going to Europe (or anywhere) with a man who is not her husband.

I also loved JR calling her out.

Give the poor woman a break! She had to stand the likes of Cliff, Afton, Katherine, and J.R. (not to mention the early Sue Ellen). Compared with them, Mark is the perfect man!

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Chris2

Telly Talk Dream Maker
J.R. calling her out is a truly awesome moment in the series. I loved how they didn’t make her character lily-white. She made mistakes.

I didn’t much care for the Pornstache chasing after her. He was slightly more tolerable in the dream, but even then, I didn’t like how she jumped into bed with him about three days after Bobby died. It annoyed me that the producers were so afraid of leaving her single for a while.
 

darkshadows38

Telly Talk Star
it wasn't so much that they were afraid to have her be single for awhile but they did it as you know for Drama. no one can seem to be happy in soaps for some reason, i think when it comes to drama there's a lot of times where they really can get carried away. course it also depends on how it's written as well too. but the same thing can he said on comedy's as well if you look at the show Friends they had Ross & Rachel together only a year and broke them up and they never got back together for some reason or other but to cause drama until the series finale. funny how years later i read they regretted how they handled that lol.
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
it wasn't so much that they were afraid to have her be single for awhile but they did it as you know for Drama. no one can seem to be happy in soaps for some reason, i think when it comes to drama there's a lot of times where they really can get carried away. course it also depends on how it's written as well too. but the same thing can he said on comedy's as well if you look at the show Friends they had Ross & Rachel together only a year and broke them up and they never got back together for some reason or other but to cause drama until the series finale. funny how years later i read they regretted how they handled that lol.

I agree in that I don't think they were afraid to have Pam be single for awhile, I think that it was their vision for Pam that she was a woman who could not stand to live by herself - she needed a man to be feel secure and happy. Thee's a point of view that it made her weak - that she should have been secure in herself to not need to always be with a man. As I've stated before, weaknesses in characters is what creates vulnerabilities and allows for dramatic stories to be told. It would be a terrible mistake to make all your characters so strong that they're invulnerable. Then they can't be hurt. That's gonna make it damn hard to manufacture drama. How does the audience empathize with people who have no vulnerabilities and therefore can't be hurt or feel pain or any of the things that as human beings we can empathize with?

I do think it was tasteless to have Pam get involved so quickly after her abandonment of Bobby. She'd just left the love of her life! She should have been grief-stricken and not have even been able to think about dating - just like Bobby was! Look at how long he took to start dating after Pam left him in season six. That creates a sympathetic character who comes across as having not just human feelings we can empathize with but it also gave his character decency!

To make things worse, they made Pam out to be a complete hypocrite. She left Bobby because she "didn't have the stomach" to be in a marriage with a highly driven, highly competitive, type A personality man who wanted to gain control of Ewing Oil by accepting the opportunity Jock gave him to compete with JR to prove which one of them was the son best fit to run Ewing Oil. She begged Bobby to give up the contest for Ewing Oil so they could live "a nice, ordinary life." That was what she said she wanted. So, did Pam go looking for a man who could provide Pam with an ordinary life? No! She went straight to another high driven, highly competitive man who ran a huge oil company!

Pam clearly wanted a life that was anything but "ordinary." She said money didn't matter much to her, but her actions proved otherwise when she immediately starts dating a man who was a billionaire, or close to it. That made Pam look like such a hypocrite! They wrecked her character by having her so unwilling to make any sacrifices for Bobby when he had something that truly mattered to him and she did it after he'd spent the last several years doing anything and everything to help Pam when she was trying to either have or adopt a baby. That wasn't something Bobby had to have but he realized having a baby was incredibly important to Pam, so he helped her get a child.

Bobby went as far as to be willing to steal his own brother's baby and give it to Pam! Isn't it interesting that Pam didn't have any ethical problem with Bobby over that, but when Bobby blackmailed Hicks, she just about lost her mind. Apparently Bobby acting unethically and even illegally was just fine with Pam as long is was done for the purpose of providing Pam with something she wanted. When Bobby did something far less bad, to try to obtain something he wanted for his happiness, Pam couldn't stand it. That's how you take one of your most sympathetic character, possibly your most beloved character and just wreck that character.

Finally, I completely disagree with the concept that nobody in a drama (or soap, if you prefer), can be happy and still have the show be good. A good drama explores different aspects of life - not just people being in terrible situations. Having the characters have to be unhappy is so limiting! Also, how much gloom and doom does an audience want to see? Most people get tired of seeing constant negativity. When they see a character they like having attained happiness, they're happy for that character; it makes them feel good! I don't think the idea of having constant unhappiness is any better than having constant happiness. There has to be contrast, and it becomes ever so much more interesting when a show explores both the good and bad in life instead of focusing on just one of the two.
 

Lastkidpicked

Telly Talk Dream Maker
She went straight to another high driven, highly competitive man who ran a huge company!

I remember during the original run, Mark Graison appeared on the scene and our European friends asked, "Is EVERYBODY in Dallas rich and handsome?"

Well, I suppose if you hang out at the Reunion Tower they are.

And the whole city gets slightly better looking when I leave town!
 

darkshadows38

Telly Talk Star
ya know i think they also forget that a woman doesn't need a man to define who she is as a person, she shouldn't always have to rely on having one, it's not a weakness if you are single.
much like it the same thing when it comes to guys they should be their own person as well outside of their girlfriends or wives as well. and i agree on what you said as well you can have a couple get married at some point, case in point Castle when they had the 2 leads get together honestly the show was still damn good & it worked better than i thought it would, they had their fights like real couples do, they clearly adored each other and after they got married again they had fights in the last season Beckett took a break from Castle to hunt some guy down wanting to protect him. stupid yeah but it's realistic i think.

and they never got a divorce. same with Bones as well. on Desperate Housewives when they got Mike & Susan married they kept them happy, they like real couples fought and etc... and they kept them married until well they killed him for some stupid ass pointless reason but for a show like that it was a happy couple, like Bree and Rex they stayed married even if he did at some point die. so it can work i agree
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
Not to mention having to endure the skin irritation of kissing him .

Wouldn't the "stubble beards" that are popular today (the look Don Johnson popularized where a guy looks like he just went 3 or 4 days without shaving) be more irritating to a woman's skin than an actual beard or moustache? My face feels rougher to my hand when I've gone 3 days without shaving than it does whenever I've actually had a beard or goatee. I'll let the women be the judge of this - which feels rougher on your skin - when your man has only gone a few days without shaving or when he actually has a full beard or moustache?
 
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Karin

Moderator
Staff Member
on Desperate Housewives when they got Mike & Susan married they kept them happy, they like real couples fought and etc... and they kept them married until well they killed him for some stupid ass pointless reason but for a show like that it was a happy couple, like Bree and Rex they stayed married even if he did at some point die. so it can work i agree

Wrong!
After Susan and Mike got married they were only married for a few episodes before they did the time jump aka jump the shark five years into the future where they were divorced and dating others. It was annoying. Also Rex died about one season or two into the show and Bree later got remarried and divorced and slept around while drunk.

So Bobby and Pam were more stable than both of those couples.

DHs best couple was Tom and Lynette followed by Gaby and Carlos IMHO.
 
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