Do You Consider Dallas To Be Art?

[Willie Oleson]

If I understood you correctly, you don't particularly care about what happens to whom in Dallas as long as it makes a fascinating story

I'm not sure if it's possible to rephrase all these feelings and opinions into one simplified statement. Or that it should?

I have to wonder if you don't admire any of them, do you ever admire them at certain times, for particular things they did?

Well it really is the writer's decision, isn't it? I can admire clever writing or writing/production that shows a dedication to the cause, but I wouldn't judge the characters out of their fictional context.

As for Katherine, I could root for her the same way I could root for JR and still hate them for what they're doing.
It's seeing these characters clutching at straws (and resort to dastardly things), I find it almost impossible not to appreciate their efforts. But that's not what happened in every storyline, sometimes they were downright awful just because, so you can't rephrase that into one neat statement.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

I've thought about this from time to time (about characters from a number of shows) and reached the same conclusion. There aren't that many I could imagine clicking with in any significant way. Which is perhaps part of the reason they're so fascinating to watch.

If I can't relate to at least one of the main characters in a show, then I have no desire to watch. If I don't like anybody, what do I care what happens to them? It's hard to like someone I can't relate to at all. In Dallas, I can only relate to the characters some, my favorite characters in it have at least some elements that I relate to.

Even JR, as hard as it is to relate to him in a lot of ways, he's a good father, alright, there's something. He's a hard worker. His work ethic is admirable and very relatable. He's got that drive to be the best at what he does, he values competency and efficacy. Excellent. I'm the same way.

His morality is not even a little relatable to me, but he has this other qualities, so it's enough.

I'm not sure if it's possible to rephrase all these feelings and opinions into one simplified statement. Or that it should?

I acknowledged I was simplifying it by saying that if I understood him correctly he didn't particularly care about what happens to whom in Dallas as long as it makes a fascinating story.

He said he likes them, yet doesn't want them to be happy for long. Realize that to me, that's a foreign concept. I want people I like in a movie or show to be happy, so I'm trying to at least get the gist of how he thinks about it. I may not ever understand every nuance of how he looks at it, but I'm asking him I understand the essence of what his reason for watching is. I don't think that's a bad thing, do you?

Did you interpret his post in a different way?

I think James will tell me if I misinterpreted him. I hope so!

 

[James from London]

If I understood you correctly, you don't particularly care about what happens to whom in Dallas as long as it makes a fascinating story. That's probably simplifying it, but is that more or less it, in a nutshell?

It's not that I don't care -- that makes it sound like I'm indifferent -- but I'm not wedded to a particular outcome.

Do you ever see a Dallas character do something and think: "I'd hope I'd have the guts to do that if I were in that situation" or "Wow, what a great work ethic; he's so committed to accomplishing his goals and isn't afraid to put int the hard work" or anything along those lines?

No, never.

I've thought about this from time to time (about characters from a number of shows) and reached the same conclusion. There aren't that many I could imagine clicking with in any significant way. Which is perhaps part of the reason they're so fascinating to watch.

Yes. I mean, I can empathise with them, but I wouldn't wanna be stuck in a lift with any of them.

By any chance, did you make a phone call to Five Star around that time?

Ha! Shh ...

I could root for her the same way I could root for JR and still hate them for what they're doing.

Yes, having conflicting reactions at the same time -- that's always fun.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Yes. I mean, I can empathise with them, but I wouldn't wanna be stuck in a lift with any of them.

When I was watching Dallas as it originally aired, I was in my teems and early twenties, so back then as single, unmarried guy, I would have loved to have been stuck in a lift with April. Not necessarily stuck in a lift, but hanging out with her someplace a little nicer than a lift, sure! I would have loved that!

I realize the demographics of our forum being what they are, a lot of us are married now, or living with someone, but think back to when you were single. Is there really even one guy here who didn't find any of the women in Dallas attractive? Or for the women, isn't there at least one man in Dallas you would have liked to have spent some time with back when you were single?

 

[Willie Oleson]

but I wouldn't wanna be stuck in a lift with any of them

I was going to say: Nicolette Sheridan, but she's a 6 on the Abby scale and I'm only a 2. I'll take the stairs!

 

[James from London]

I was going to say: Nicolette Sheridan, but she's a 6 on the Abby scale and I'm only a 2. I'll take the stairs!

Well, Knots is a whole other deal - I think even a soulless tycoon like Greg would have been fun to hang out with once in a while!

 

[Willie Oleson]

Well, Knots is a whole other deal

Speaking of Knots, Jill Bennett is a perfect example of "rooting for/against" at the same time, because the thrill of it is almost getting there. And she needs to succeed to get to that point.

I want people I like in a movie or show to be happy

I think that a soap needs those moments too, or at least something that needs to be pursued. And indeed this appears to be the standard introduction for all the soaps.
Pretty people arrive in This Or That Place to start a new, pretty happy life. It's a lovely picture, but without the drama you don't have a soap.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Speaking of Knots, Jill Bennett is a perfect example of "rooting for/against" at the same time, because the thrill of it is almost getting there. And she needs to succeed to get to that point.

I think that a soap needs those moments too, or at least something that needs to be pursued. And indeed this appears to be the standard introduction for all the soaps.
Pretty people arrive in This Or That Place to start a new, pretty happy life. It's a lovely picture, but without the drama you don't have a soap.

Sure, you need drama for a drama, but the there don't have to be all the troubled marriages we saw in Dallas. One of my favorite dramas - Friday Night Lights - featured the most realistic married couple I've seen on a TV drama. Eric and Tammi Taylor are a happily married couple as well as being an unusually realistic married couple for any TV show. They had arguments, like any couple does, but in general they were extremely happy being married to each other. There is still plenty of drama in Friday Night Lights but it comes from the adversity each of them face in their careers, as well as from storylines involving other characters. It's not a soap - its just a good drama. Has anyone else here seen it?

No, never.

Why would you like people you don't find admirable?

 

[James from London]

Why would you like people you don't find admirable?

I dunno. It's never really occurred to me to admire fictional characters. I don't have to admire someone to be curious about their story. I'm much more likely to empathise with a character than admire them. And even if I don't empathise, I can still be amused, intrigued, excited, etc. by them.

 

[Willie Oleson]

It's never really occurred to me to admire fictional characters

Is it überhaupt possible to admire fictional characters? I mean, it's not like a doctor in a hospital soap would win the Nobel prize because he "discovers" a cure for Alzheimer's.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

I dunno. It's never really occurred to me to admire fictional characters.

Alright, that's honest.

It has occurred to you to like fictional characters.

I liked pretty much all the main characters on Dallas.

I like some of the characters too. Of course I like some more than others and there are some I don't like at all. How do I discern between characters I like a lot, characters I like some but not as much, and characters I don't like at all? I discern between them by making value judgements based on the admirable qualities the characters display or fail to display.

 

[James from London]

It has occurred to you to like fictional characters.

Well, it's never occurred to me in an intellectual sense. If I like a story, I get pulled into it and then respond accordingly.

How do I discern between characters I like a lot, characters I like some but not as much, and characters I don't like at all? I discern between them by making value judgements based on the admirable qualities the characters display or fail to display.

I've never felt the need to discern who I liked and how much I liked them. I'm happy for my allegiances to be in a constant state of flux. And again, making moral judgements about fictional characters feels very alien to me.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

How do I discern between characters I like a lot, characters I like some but not as much, and characters I don't like at all? I discern between them by making value judgements based on the admirable qualities the characters display or fail to display

I've never felt the need to discern who I liked and how much I liked them. I'm happy for my allegiances to be in a constant state of flux.

For a lot of us, this has to do with the relateability of a character.

I couldn't imagine myself as Bobby Ewing, born into the Ewing family. But can easily imagine myself as Ray Krebbs, foreman of Southfork Ranch. So while I enjoy watching both Bobby and Ray, I react differently to the characters. When bad things happen to Ray, I feel it more than when bad things happen to Bobby. When good things happen to Ray, I feel it more than when good things happen to Bobby.

This is also why I enjoy seeing Punk Anderson during the series. I knew men like Punk growing up, and I know men like Punk today. I can relate to him.

 

[James from London]

When bad things happen to Ray, I feel it more than when bad things happen to Bobby.

Generally, I'd say that's my experience too. I've always liked Bobby, but I find him a lot more empathetic in New DALLAS.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

Great point, James. I'll go over to that side of the boards and look at what you have to say.

And bringing us full circle to the title of this thread, "Do You Consider Dallas to be Art?"

Yes, I do. And I'll use Punk Anderson for example. Look at this picture:

First, let's look at Punk. His gray hair has been earned. Those wrinkles are worn with pride. Punk is successful, but that success was a hard road.

Now let's look at Mavis. She is no shrinking violet. You know she's a strong woman just by looking at her. And look at her hands. These are strong hands not afraid to get dirty raising a family. Also look at her body language. Right behind Punk, and touching his elbow helping guide him through life.

And look at the background. Just plain wood. When they were coming up, it was Punk and Mavis against the world!

They demonstrated that in this one picture.

Very nice.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

For a lot of us, this has to do with the relateability of a character.

I couldn't imagine myself as Bobby Ewing, born into the Ewing family. But can easily imagine myself as Ray Krebbs, foreman of Southfork Ranch. So while I enjoy watching both Bobby and Ray, I react differently to the characters. When bad things happen to Ray, I feel it more than when bad things happen to Bobby. When good things happen to Ray, I feel it more than when good things happen to Bobby.

This is also why I enjoy seeing Punk Anderson during the series. I knew men like Punk growing up, and I know men like Punk today. I can relate to him.

That's very understandable.

Another thing that influences all of our reactions is how well the actor or actress portrays the character. The skill the actor displays in showing the emotion they're feeling affects the emotional impact it has on me. The best can do it with just a look. There's a scene when they've just come back from South America after searching for Jock and JR is standing alone outside looking up at the sky. Without having to say anything, Larry Hagman is able to express all the things JR is feeling.

It took a hell of an actor to make JR get the response the character did from people all over the world. On paper, the character wouldn't have been seen as having nearly the potential it did. Bobby and Pam were originally supposed to be the two most featured characters. Larry Hagman got such a great reaction from the audience in his portrayal of JR that they changed their plans and decided to have JR be the most featured character in the show.

Great point, James. I'll go over to that side of the boards and look at what you have to say.

And bringing us full circle to the title of this thread, "Do You Consider Dallas to be Art?"

Yes, I do. And I'll use Punk Anderson for example. Look at this picture:

First, let's look at Punk. His gray hair has been earned. Those wrinkles are worn with pride. Punk is successful, but that success was a hard road.

Now let's look at Mavis. She is no shrinking violet. You know she's a strong woman just by looking at her. And look at her hands. These are strong hands not afraid to get dirty raising a family. Also look at her body language. Right behind Punk, and touching his elbow helping guide him through life.

And look at the background. Just plain wood. When they were coming up, it was Punk and Mavis against the world!

They demonstrated that in this one picture.

Very nice.

Nice post @Lastkidpicked!

"Punk is successful, but that success was a hard road" is a good observation. Look at the size of the rock in that string tie he's wearing. He's made it to the top and he's proud of it. He loves wearing flashy things that draw attention to him. Punk is definitely an extrovert!

 

[Lastkidpicked]

You all know how much I like looking at a picture and putting a Texas perspective on it. Here is another screenshot that shows an artistic touch.

The scene is that J.R. has lost Ewing Oil to Jeremy Wendell. Sly and J.R. are driving home after failing to make a deal and already feeling low. They come across stopped traffic, which is waiting for Weststar Oil as they replace the Ewing Oil signage.

Why do I consider this to be art? Because of the thought that went into staging the scene:

1. Notice that it is not just Ewing Oil on the sign. We also see the Southfork Ranch logo. The writers are showing us that Ewing Oil, Southfork Ranch, and the family, are all in one. The Southfork Logo was a nice touch to drive the point home.

2. The very fact that Sly and J.R. had to wait in stopped traffic while they changed out the sign. There is a deeper meaning behind this. In Texas, a company such as Weststar could say to the county, "We are going to change out a sign and we need you to shut down the road while we do it." And the county, knowing how much money Weststar throws around, would comply and shut down the road for them.

3. Notice that the scene is filmed from the perspective of inside J.R.'s car. In an interesting juxtaposition, J.R. and Sly are in their own little bubble and they are the outsiders in this situation.

And I need @Bill Dilks or @johnmmil10 to confirm this, but while the scene was probably shot in Bakersfield, the truck has the marking of a Texas truck.
See that rectangular box on the top of the truck? That is a ByCool air conditioning unit that they put on trucks down South because you sit directly over the engine and the cab gets roasting hot!

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

You all know how much I like looking at a picture and putting a Texas perspective on it. Here is another screenshot that shows an artistic touch.



And I need @Bill Dilks or @johnmmil10 to confirm this, but while the scene was probably shot in Bakersfield, the truck has the marking of a Texas truck.

Great post as always! Do you know when in the season this scene is from? That's usually the answer to the Texas/California question (early episodes are TX, later ones are CA), although I think in the last season at least, they filmed exclusively in California.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

Great post as always!

Thank you for the compliment. I enjoy looking through these screenshots because the scene above is EXACTLY what I see several times a day. This is why I enjoy putting a Texas perspective on things.

Do you know when in the season this scene is from? That's usually the answer to the Texas/California question (early episodes are TX, later ones are CA),

That is why I assumed Bakersfield. I've been to that tankfarm, but it was just a few years ago, not back in 1987 when they filmed this. (Season 11, episode 2).

If you'll indulge an old cowboy, I'll tell you a story about why I enjoy going to that tank farm (if it is the one in Bakersfield).

On the way up, you pass two sites that a behind the scenes person will enjoy. First, the Hyundai Kia proving ground. For a behind the scenes guy like myself, I just enjoy watching the prototypes running around before they become actual cars.

The blankets over the cars, and the camouflage tape are there to hide the actual shapes of the cars, so nobody can see the finished product until they are ready for prime time.

And if that's not cool enough. . .


Mojave Boneyard where they store small planes and large aircraft that have been decommissioned. Very cool to drive by.

Look at what is holding up this jet! Who did that? Ray Krebbs and Mickey Trotter?

That is so cool!

No wonder I'm always late to the tank farm in Bakersfield. I'm like a 12 year old kid again when I make this trip.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Look at what is holding up this jet! Who did that? Ray Krebbs and Mickey Trotter?

@Lastkidpicked , I can't tell what exactly that is that's holding the jet up. What's it called?

I'm glad you enjoy that trip so much.