Would You Take Back The Later Years?

[Swami]

I definitely wouldn't negate the Wes Parmalee storyline of season ten.

I still think he was really Jock Ewing & left because he wanted to spare the family any more pain.

Steve Forrest was a good actor, he would've been a great Jock Ewing.

I would agree he was an excellent actor, and an excellent supporting cast member, but only one man was Jock Ewing - Jim Davis.

Swami

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I would agree he was an excellent actor, and an excellent supporting cast member, but only one man was Jock Ewing - Jim Davis.

Swami

Hi Swami, normally I would agree whole heartedly with you.

However, that Wes storyline really shook the family up.

Who was he? Was he Jock or not?

The intention by the writers & Producers was for him to be Jock but the backlash by the fan's made them change their minds. I just think that was a shame. The show needed a lift around season ten & instead of bringing in Sasha Mitchell, Gayle Hunnicutt & George Kennedy in the following season, Steve Forrest would've been more ideal as Jock.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

She could have joined Mandy Winger and started their own call-girl business...

No, that was Sue Ellen.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

I would agree he was an excellent actor, and an excellent supporting cast member, but only one man was Jock Ewing - Jim Davis.

Swami

I think it was a bad move to have a storyline about Jock maybe still being alive in the season where we found out Bobby was still alive even though we saw him die. I have seen the interview with the behind the scenes people (it's an extra feature on the 10th season DVDs) and they said they never intended to have Wes turn out to be Jock; it wasn't even something they'd consider. They said something about intentionally featuring the portrait of Jock often to keep the memory of Jim Davis as Jock alive-- to reinforce that there was only one Jock.

 

[Swami]

Hi Swami, normally I would agree whole heartedly with you.

However, that Wes storyline really shook the family up.

Who was he? Was he Jock or not?

The intention by the writers & Producers was for him to be Jock but the backlash by the fan's made them change their minds. I just think that was a shame. The show needed a lift around season ten & instead of bringing in Sasha Mitchell, Gayle Hunnicutt & George Kennedy in the following season, Steve Forrest would've been more ideal as Jock.

Bringing in George Kennedy wasn't a bad idea, but the character wasn't very written, too often given to cartoonish rages. I'm pretty sure there would also have been a backlash from the cast if they had proposed recasting the role of Jock.

The likes of Sasha Mitchell, Kimberley Foster, Jeri Gaile - arguably the three worst newcomers - was all about cutting costs. And it showed with their woeful performances.

Swami

 

[Clubsoda]

It doesnt bother me as I choose to ignore the last 4 seasons (and anything that aired after) exist.

 

[Bobby Southworth]

I have also read that they never intended for Wes to be Jock. However, hindsight is 20/20. Maybe they were considering it before Patrick Duffy came back, unless they were afraid because of the Donna Reed replacing Miss Ellie scenario. Who knows. Of course, in that case, Ben Stivers would have been Jock, not Wes. I enjoyed the story line. Who wouldn't wish someone they love back to life? That said, you would think, even with Wes Parmalee's drastic, unrealistic plastic surgeries, the family would have known if Wes was their father. The show never touched on certain aspects, such as Wes remembering things about his son's childhood and upbringing. We only were confronted with memories Jock would have had in his Dallas existence, which makes the whole thing look kind of silly in retrospect.

 

[Herofan]

The show never touched on certain aspects, such as Wes remembering things about his son's childhood and upbringing. We only were confronted with memories Jock would have had in his Dallas existence, which makes the whole thing look kind of silly in retrospect.

That’s true. In a similar vein, while they were in South America searching for Jock, weren’t all the memories and flashbacks just from the last few years that were on camera?

 

[Kenny Coyote]

I have also read that they never intended for Wes to be Jock. However, hindsight is 20/20. Maybe they were considering it before Patrick Duffy came back, unless they were afraid because of the Donna Reed replacing Miss Ellie scenario. Who knows. Of course, in that case, Ben Stivers would have been Jock, not Wes. I enjoyed the story line. Who wouldn't wish someone they love back to life? That said, you would think, even with Wes Parmalee's drastic, unrealistic plastic surgeries, the family would have known if Wes was their father. The show never touched on certain aspects, such as Wes remembering things about his son's childhood and upbringing. We only were confronted with memories Jock would have had in his Dallas existence, which makes the whole thing look kind of silly in retrospect.

The whole family, only with the exception of Miss Ellie never believed Wes was Jock. It's one of those situations where they created drama for the sake of drama, depth there being plenty of reasons why Wes couldn't have been Jock, such as did the accident make his whole skeleton shrink?

I can understand why they didn't have Wes talk about things didn't see, because we didn't see them! So, they wouldn't have been relevant to our memories of Jock and Dallas in general.

Always thought it was weird that Ellie didn't call the police when he admitted he was a fraud. Her reaction was so weak! Clayton showed an understandable reaction- this guy had tried to wreck his marriage and had caused his whole family a huge amount of grief. So Clayton wanted to kill him. If somebody tried to do that to my marriage I'd want to kill him too.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

That’s true. In a similar vein, while they were in South America searching for Jock, weren’t all the memories and flashbacks just from the last few years that were on camera?

It's a fictional show so there were no "memories and flashbacks" except from the ones that were on camera!

 

[Toni]

The whole family, only with the exception of Miss Ellie never believed Wes was Jock. It's one of those situations where they created drama for the sake of drama, depth there being plenty of reasons why Wes couldn't have been Jock, such as did the accident make his whole skeleton shrink?

I can understand why they didn't have Wes talk about things didn't see, because we didn't see them! So, they wouldn't have been relevant to our memories of Jock and Dallas in general.

Always thought it was weird that Ellie didn't call the police when he admitted he was a fraud. Her reaction was so weak! Clayton showed an understandable reaction- this guy had tried to wreck his marriage and had caused his whole family a huge amount of grief. So Clayton wanted to kill him. If somebody tried to do that to my marriage I'd want to kill him too.

Maybe Wes told Miss Ellie something else, eg that he knew that J.R. was Digger´s son! And threatened with revealing the whole thing if he didn´t have a luxury life in Acapulco! So she agreed and tried to convince the family that he wasn´t Jock (and of course he wasn´t, he just heard him talk about "that s.o.b. J.R., Digger´s son I raised..."). I´m kidding, no need to say it...but it was just funny that we didn´t see that last scene of Jock and Ellie.

"Oh Wes, I got you...Takapa a taco franchise ain´t..."​

 

[Bobby Southworth]

No, we didn't see those early memories with Jock and his sons or Miss Ellie, but you have to wonder.. If Wes was really Jock, surely some of those would have come up, at least off camera. Bobby and J.R. were never convinced for a second that Wes was Jock. If any of those things came up that only Jock would know, it seems Bobby and J.R. would have at least had some question. Unless, we were expected to believe that Jock rambled off his whole life story when he had that fever.

There are things, details as parents raising children that a parent wouldn't forget. Perhaps that's part of the reason J.R. and Bobby never bought it. I guess for me, that, and the fact that you would think Miss Ellie would somehow know a man she was married to for what, nearly 50 years, make it seem very unlikely that he could have been Jock.

It was a fun plot, and the writers did a good job of making us wonder, based on what we had experienced with the Jock character. However, I don't think Jock would have considered selling Ewing oil to anyone, let alone Jeremy Wendell.

 

[James from London]

We only were confronted with memories Jock would have had in his Dallas existence

Wes reminded Ellie about "that time that Punk lent us his lodge down at the lake for that second honeymoon I took you on. You think it meant any less to me than it did to you? Neither one of us were kids then, Ellie, but it was like we were eighteen again."

 

[Herofan]

No, we didn't see those early memories with Jock and his sons or Miss Ellie, but you have to wonder.. If Wes was really Jock, surely some of those would have come up, at least off camera. Bobby and J.R. were never convinced for a second that Wes was Jock. If any of those things came up that only Jock would know, it seems Bobby and J.R. would have at least had some question. Unless, we were expected to believe that Jock rambled off his whole life story when he had that fever.

There are things, details as parents raising children that a parent wouldn't forget. Perhaps that's part of the reason J.R. and Bobby never bought it. I guess for me, that, and the fact that you would think Miss Ellie would somehow know a man she was married to for what, nearly 50 years, make it seem very unlikely that he could have been Jock.

It was a fun plot, and the writers did a good job of making us wonder, based on what we had experienced with the Jock character. However, I don't think Jock would have considered selling Ewing oil to anyone, let alone Jeremy Wendell.

Even if Jr and Bobby didn’t believe Wes, I believe at some point, I would have put him to the test and asked him a slew of questions just to see how he could handle it. On the other hand, if Wes really was Jock, at some point, he should have had an “ask me anything” session.

I agree that Jock would not have sold Ewing oil. At the ball, he also said if you had business with Ewing Oil now, he was the one to talk to. That seemed odd to me. He retired years ago. He acted as though he were still running the company when he disappeared.

I also thought it was a fun story. I really enjoyed it.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Even if Jr and Bobby didn’t believe Wes, I believe at some point, I would have put him to the test and asked him a slew of questions just to see how he could handle it. On the other hand, if Wes really was Jock, at some point, he should have had an “ask me anything” session.

I agree that Jock would not have sold Ewing oil. At the ball, he also said if you had business with Ewing Oil now, he was the one to talk to. That seemed odd to me. He retired years ago. He acted as though he were still running the company when he disappeared.

I also thought it was a fun story. I really enjoyed it.

I always thought he was a con man. Nobody looks that different, accident and plastic surgery notwithstanding. His whole build was different. His mannerisms were different, his way of speaking was different and he had no visible scars. He was supposedly burned that badly and had no scars on his face or neck? Look at what happened to Pam - no plastic surgeon is so good that he wouldn't have had scars on his face.

 

[Swami]

Even if Jr and Bobby didn’t believe Wes, I believe at some point, I would have put him to the test and asked him a slew of questions just to see how he could handle it. On the other hand, if Wes really was Jock, at some point, he should have had an “ask me anything” session.

I agree that Jock would not have sold Ewing oil. At the ball, he also said if you had business with Ewing Oil now, he was the one to talk to. That seemed odd to me. He retired years ago. He acted as though he were still running the company when he disappeared.

I also thought it was a fun story. I really enjoyed it.

I agree, it was a good storyline but sensible that Jock wasn't recast.

Swami

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

The ambivalence of the Wes Parmalee plot is what made it work --- in fact, the story almost defines DALLAS. Both in its messiness and it's did-that-just-happen? ghostliness.

It's effin' Hamlet.

Like the characters, the viewers were torn over whether Wes was, wasn't, or might be Jock. And torn over whether the show should even be doing this at all, let alone right on the heels of Bobby being revived -- via a dream, no less. But much of the brilliance of the Parmalee plot was that there was enough red herring tossed out there that the audience could not only come to their own conclusions about Wes's identity, but could even assume that that conclusion was self-evident.

Even when Wes disappeared, it was right after Jeremy Wendell told him his sole goal was to destroy the Ewing family (before Bobby returned from Colombia with whatever evidence he had collected). Wes even told Miss Ellie that he'd had an identical family history to that of Jock's.

The Who Knows? question hanging in the air and unanswered was part of the haunting appeal of the storyline which tapped into everything that DALLAS was about at its core.

Even if we could undo Donna Reed and the dream resolution, I still wonder if the series should have ended when Sue Ellen shot JR, or maybe a year later when she left town for good. But if we could fix those things, we could also fix the last two or three years.

 

[Bobby Southworth]

It was interesting to me that Wes told Miss Ellie he would see her again one day.... why? If he wasn't Jock, what did that mean? I don't think he was Jock for all the reasons I've purposed, but what dd that anticipate?

 

[Seaviewer]

hindsight is 20/20. Maybe they were considering it before Patrick Duffy came back, unless they were afraid because of the Donna Reed replacing Miss Ellie scenario. Who knows. Of course, in that case, Ben Stivers would have been Jock, not Wes.

That's always been my pet theory. But when Duffy returned it became unnecessary .

Bobby and J.R. were never convinced for a second that Wes was Jock.

I always felt that their denial came at least in part from a fear of losing their current status. Jock's return would have been another huge upheaval that they just weren't prepared to face.

His whole build was different. His mannerisms were different, his way of speaking was different

That can happen with any recast - even when there is no onscreen acknowledgement of the change.

It was interesting to me that Wes told Miss Ellie he would see her again one day.... why? If he wasn't Jock, what did that mean? I don't think he was Jock for all the reasons I've purposed, but what dd that anticipate?

Good question. Also, Clayton says at one point that he his going to search for him - but doesn't. Likely the writers were just leaving open the possibility of a sequel without having any idea themselves what it might be.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

That can happen with any recast - even when there is no onscreen acknowledgement of the change.

But they did acknowledge the change. With Gary his change in appearance was never mentioned so it's not part of the story. Here the story is about could this be Jock? Well, how do human beings recognize each other - you apply the same criteria. It was a silly story.