Would we have had Conundrum if Victoria returned for the final episode?

[Grangehill1]

I’ve heard many times that Victoria wanted a guarantee that the final episode would indeed have been the last once to agree to appear. But that the producers couldn’t confirm this?

So if Victoria would have agreed to return for the final episode would we have got Conundrum? Would the producers have changed it and made it in the real universe itself? And not the fantasy world we got?

I don’t think they would have done and we would have seen an alternative Pam in JR’a dream. And her storyline still wouldn’t have been resolved

 

[ChrisEwing2003]

I suppose it is possible that maybe Bobby and Pam would have gotten the scene of them meeting for the first time instead of Gary and Valene,

 

[Pamela_E]

I’ve heard many times that Victoria wanted a guarantee that the final episode would indeed have been the last once to agree to appear. But that the producers couldn’t confirm this?

So if Victoria would have agreed to return for the final episode would we have got Conundrum? Would the producers have changed it and made it in the real universe itself? And not the fantasy world we got?

I don’t think they would have done and we would have seen an alternative Pam in JR’a dream. And her storyline still wouldn’t have been resolved

I have always found this to be an utterly bizarre demand, amounting to I'm not doing it

If they had told her no more Dallas, in What was she going to do? Get a time machine in 2011 and go back to 1991 to tell them off.

Anyway I don't recall if she actually did say it,

But if they did get her back for the finale and played it as JR'S imagination that would have been terrible.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

If I was Victoria -- and I'm not, as she's the only person I know of who's even older than I am -- I wouldn't have done it; the show had fallen so far by that point, why bother?

Maybe if they made Pam first woman president...

 

[DallasFanForever]

As much as I would’ve liked to see her return for Conundrum, I don’t think her return would’ve made much of a difference. The episode was horrible, an awful end to a once great show and I think she was wise to stay away.

Maybe we could’ve had some closure for Bobby and Pam finally but I’m not so sure at that point it would’ve been handled the right way.

 

[Chris2]

Victoria at the time said she was willing to return to put a “coda” on the story of Bobby and Pam. She was not interested in being part of another cliffhanger. Conundrum was written because the producers were hoping that they would get another renewal and wanted to keep the door open for another season, yet could still serve as a finale and bring back departed character. Victoria wasn’t interested in that type of fantasy episode - she wanted to return for an episode that wrapped up the story of the Ewings.

 

[stevew]

Victoria at the time said she was willing to return to put a “coda” on the story of Bobby and Pam. She was not interested in being part of another cliffhanger. Conundrum was written because the producers were hoping that they would get another renewal and wanted to keep the door open for another season, yet could still serve as a finale and bring back departed character. Victoria wasn’t interested in that type of fantasy episode - she wanted to return for an episode that wrapped up the story of the Ewings.

I wish they had listened to her. Not that we couldn’t have still had a couple movies and a continuation but the original story would have had a much better wrap up.

1. JR with EO, West Star and SF has it all but John Ross and Sue Ellen - he has to get them back.
2. Bobby and Pam reunite and ride into the sunset with Christopher.
The End.

 

[Jabari Lamar]

I’ve heard many times that Victoria wanted a guarantee that the final episode would indeed have been the last once to agree to appear. But that the producers couldn’t confirm this?

I remember hearing that somewhere for years too, although no one ever cites a source for it. It's interesting how that grew to become a little urban legend regarding the series. I recall sometime back when the TNT series began there was an interview linked to on the old Soapchat forum where she was asked about that and said she indeed turned down a request to appear on Conundrum but denied that she made any demand about it being the finale. She simply turned it down because she wasn't interested. I can't recall where the interview was from now. . For some reason, many fans just can't accept that, and are just convinced that the producers of both series could have gotten her backs somehow if they'd just tried hard enough or offered her more.

But as @Pamela_E said it's bizarre demand that doesn't make any real sense if you think about it. If she was willing to come back for some one-off appearance, why would she need to insist on it being the series finale? Why would that make a difference to her? Just show up, get her check and leave. But she didn't need the money and wasn't that attached to the story, so the idea of personally wanted to put some "coda" on the Pam and Bobby story sounds more like the fans projecting their feelings about the character on to her. But as she noted when she announced she wasn't coming on to the TNT show, when she left the show in the first place, she did consider that the end to the story. As far as she was concerned, Pam was meant to be killed in that crash, it's not her fault how the writers instead chose to portray her character after she was done, so she was under no obligation to return to "fix" it later.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Victoria was right -- these things eventually become kind of pathetic.

And of all the characters in DALLAS, Pam is the hardest one to envision popping up in a final chapter or a sequel movie or a continuation series (even if Principal had been willing to do so).

Pam needed to be left to the mists of the past, her whereabouts an unsolved mystery more-or-less.

 

[the-lost-son]

I'm pretty sure nothing about the series' finale would have been changed.

Victoria Principal never closed the door on Dallas. I rely heavily on Barbara Curran's book about Dallas which I can't praise enough.
Victoria Principal wrote the introduction in it calling it exceptional.

The book clearly states that she was willing to return if it was guaranteed to be the last episode. She participated in "Return to Southfork" because she wanted - quote - conclude her Dallas journey with a joyous, happy ending, not with a dream or cliffhanger. The dream concept did not have any influence on her decision. (I personally doubt that she watched any episodes after her departure.)

The series' finale was designed to give everybody on the set a good time - and obviously not primarily to give the audience a finale they longed for.

Hagman was "ambivalent if the episode" - quote - it wasn't the best ending, but I couldn't think of a better one and I did what Mr. Katzman told me to do anyhow.

Joel Grey was a close, personal friend of Larry. Cathy Podewell remembered about the great time the two had. Linda Grey - asked by Lenny Katzman - what to do with Sue Ellen - asked for Jack Scalia for the finale. It didn't seem that well planned. They had a feeling that this was it, but it was not 100% sure. The atmosphere on the set was always good, or at least weigh better than on comparable TV productions. So they chose to have a good time. The rest was thrilled to play totally different roles (Joan van Ark) or to bring their children into the series in this episode (Patrick Duffy).

It was a ratings success (No. 2). Critics and audience hoped for something different but now the book was closed.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Victoria Principal wouldn't have come back to Dallas. She'd moved on.

If she had have come back we would've still have got a version of Conundrum. So her coming back probably wouldn't have altered the finale we actually got too much.

 

[Pamela_E]

I'm pretty sure nothing about the series' finale would have been changed.

Victoria Principal never closed the door on Dallas. I rely heavily on Barbara Curran's book about Dallas which I can't praise enough.
Victoria Principal wrote the introduction in it calling it exceptional.

The book clearly states that she was willing to return if it was guaranteed to be the last episode. She participated in "Return to Southfork" because she wanted - quote - conclude her Dallas journey with a joyous, happy ending, not with a dream or cliffhanger. The dream concept did not have any influence on her decision. (I personally doubt that she watched any episodes after her departure.)

The series' finale was designed to give everybody on the set a good time - and obviously not primarily to give the audience a finale they longed for.

Hagman was "ambivalent if the episode" - quote - it wasn't the best ending, but I couldn't think of a better one and I did what Mr. Katzman told me to do anyhow.

Joel Grey was a close, personal friend of Larry. Cathy Podewell remembered about the great time the two had. Linda Grey - asked by Lenny Katzman - what to do with Sue Ellen - asked for Jack Scalia for the finale. It didn't seem that well planned. They had a feeling that this was it, but it was not 100% sure. The atmosphere on the set was always good, or at least weigh better than on comparable TV productions. So they chose to have a good time. The rest was thrilled to play totally different roles (Joan van Ark) or to bring their children into the series in this episode (Patrick Duffy).

It was a ratings success (No. 2). Critics and audience hoped for something different but now the book was closed.

So that's where it came from. I agree the book is solid, it makes more sense now. So as they didn't know the show was 100% over, she didn't want to return into all that ambiguity and be in a dream like episode.

Not the most solid of script ideas to entice someone back.

So perhaps if they have confidently decided it was the end, as we saw with Knots Landing, with well a written script to tie it all up, then maybe she would have returned.
Shame they didn't just decide to end Dallas themselves, rather than go in with fingers crossed. The writing had been on the wall for a while.

It would have been nice if Victoria had returned for a batch of episodes in a season that built up to a grand finale.

Oh well.

 

[Seaviewer]

Pam is referenced in the scene where Cliff becomes president. If VP had agreed to be in it we probably would have just seen her seated at that table.

 

[Angela Channing]

I think Conundrum would have gone ahead and Pam would have had her own sequence in JR's dream. I can imagine they would have made her the mother of a couple of children and the successful head of a chain of fashion stores as a tie back to her time working at The Store.

 

[Jabari Lamar]

I have and love Cullen's book too. I just pulled it out, and yes it does say on page 312 when discussing the filming of Conundrum "Katzman also hoped that Victoria Principal would give fans closure with regard to Pam's and Bobby's relationship, but Principal declined to participate when the producers could not guarantee her that the episode would be the final episode of Dallas ever produced."

So at least that's likely where this legend came from. Still, there's no citation of where Cullen got that info from, no record of Katzman or Principal ever publicly saying that. And I guess if you want to take that fact that Principal wrote an introduction of the book as proof that she read the entire book beforehand and therefore was confirming every single thing written about her in it, then there you go. But I'm just not buying it, for the reasons I stated. And I wish I could find that interview I swear I remember hearing, it was an audio interview. I tried looking a bit and I thought it was THIS ONE, where when she was asked about appearing on DallasTNT and she says "she's dead," but that's not it. I'm about to get ready to leave for work now, I may search more tonight.

 

[Chris2]

USA Today ran a story the week the last episode was aired in 1991. It listed all of the returning cast members, and then there was a question in bold that said “What about Victoria Principal?” And that’s where they had the quote from her about being willing to return for a “coda” but not interested in being part of another cliffhanger. I wish I had clipped it (I did clip the story about Margaret Michaels playing Pam that ran about a year later).

 

[Angela Channing]

"Katzman also hoped that Victoria Principal would give fans closure with regard to Pam's and Bobby's relationship, but Principal declined to participate when the producers could not guarantee her that the episode would be the final episode of Dallas ever produced."

This can't be entirely true because the format of the final episode wouldn't have allowed for anything to be done with the Bobby and Pam relationship because it was fantasy storyline which had little connection to where the characters were in their lives at that time. If they used another format how would they have managed to incorporate stories to include Kristen, Valene, Gary and the others?

 

[Jabari Lamar]

USA Today ran a story the week the last episode was aired in 1991. It listed all of the returning cast members, and then there was a question in bold that said “What about Victoria Principal?” And that’s where they had the quote from her about being willing to return for a “coda” but not interested in being part of another cliffhanger. I wish I had clipped it (I did clip the story about Margaret Michaels playing Pam that ran about a year later).

It's been a long time. Are you sure you're remembering that the article quoted her as saying that? Or is it possible that it quoted Katzman or someone else saying that's why she didn't return? Thinking more about it, it seems likely to me that this is the story the producers wanted to put out there as to why she didn't return, as it puts the onus on her and not them or the show itself. "We always wanted her back, but she refused." These are the people who bungled her exit in the first place, beginning when they didn't believe her when she told them two years before she left that she would be leaving when he contract ran out in two years, almost literally waiting until the last minute to start trying to convince her to stay (supposedly offering enough money to make her the highest paid actress on TV at the time), and then coming up with the convoluted story to keep Pam alive after she was gone. So should we take their word for it? I'm reminded of another story in Cullen's book, when Charlene Tilton was first written off the show she says the producers asked her to tell the press that it was her decision to leave, but she said she wouldn't lie, if anyone asked she'd tell them that she wasn't quitting, she was fired.

 

[Jabari Lamar]

This can't be entirely true because the format of the final episode wouldn't have allowed for anything to be done with the Bobby and Pam relationship because it was fantasy storyline which had little connection to where the characters were in their lives at that time. If they used another format how would they have managed to incorporate stories to include Kristen, Valene, Gary and the others?

I get what he means. It wouldn't have been a "real" return, it would have been in the context of the fantasy scenario that they did. Just getting Pam and Bobby together again on screen would have been seen by most fans as an "ending" to their story. I'm guessing, as someone else noted, if Victoria had appeared they would have giving her and Patrick the ending that they gave Gary and Val. We would have likely still seen the story of Bobby living his life as a reckless playboy with no direction, until in the end he somehow meets Pam for "the first time" and sparks fly and see them planning to go out on a date. And that would indicate they were destined to be together.

But on the topic I think it's important to note that we do have the answer to the question posed in this thread. Yes, if Victoria agreed to return we would have had Conundrum, because that was what she was asked to return for, it had already been planned. Again, remember, they didn't know if the the series was really ending when they shot that, which is why it had that cliffhanger. So folks fantasizing about some other "real" ending are mislead. If anything, the hypothetical should be, If The Producers Knew Dallas Was Ending, And Had Enough Advance Notice Of It, Would We Have Had Conundrum? What if, say, halfway through season 14, CBS told them they weren't renewing the show, so the producers and writers had time to come up with whatever they considered a proper ending and could rewrite the rest of the season in order to lead up to it, including negotiating with past cast members to see who would be willing to return to wrap up everyone's stories?

Ironically, if that was the case, we probably wouldn't have gotten a return of Gary and Val, since the continuity with Knots didn't match up, but we may have gotten returns of characters like Lucy, Donna, Jenna, & Charlie along with Ray and Sue Ellen.

 

[Grangehill1]

I have and love Cullen's book too. I just pulled it out, and yes it does say on page 312 when discussing the filming of Conundrum "Katzman also hoped that Victoria Principal would give fans closure with regard to Pam's and Bobby's relationship, but Principal declined to participate when the producers could not guarantee her that the episode would be the final episode of Dallas ever produced."

So at least that's likely where this legend came from. Still, there's no citation of where Cullen got that info from, no record of Katzman or Principal ever publicly saying that. And I guess if you want to take that fact that Principal wrote an introduction of the book as proof that she read the entire book beforehand and therefore was confirming every single thing written about her in it, then there you go. But I'm just not buying it, for the reasons I stated. And I wish I could find that interview I swear I remember hearing, it was an audio interview. I tried looking a bit and I thought it was THIS ONE, where when she was asked about appearing on DallasTNT and she says "she's dead," but that's not it. I'm about to get ready to leave for work now, I may search more tonight.

It’s the Dallas fanzine interview with Jason interviewing Victoria. He asks her about returning and Victoria says ‘Pam is dead’ and there’s a brief pause after and I can’t remember what happens next