I was born the year before Dallas started. My family was die hard. I didn’t start paying attention until I was 7 or 8. I’m rewatching from the beginning. Most of this is like I’m seeing it for the 1st time again. I’m up to season 12. It is literally so awful. I have to fast fwd JR prison & hard labor scenes. Miss Ellie suggesting Bobby should make Cliff a partner. WTF? And he’s doing it?!?? Double WTF. I remember not liking JR & Cally. I wanted to see if I still felt that way. The answer is I hate them more now. Many threads have discussed what ended Dallas. I think this was it.
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Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
There were some good ideas, like the range war, but the implementation was hapless. Even Halleyville and the chain gang could have worked.
And the problem for me with Miss Ellie suggesting Bobby should make Cliff a partner at Ewing Oil was not the fact that she said that -- remember, Miss Ellie lived in a world of denial and might very well want to make nice-nice with Cliff since Pam is now gone and the Barnes-Ewing feud is "over" -- but the complete lack of reaction from everybody within earshot is insane!!
Not even a pause? Bobby can't even hesitate for two seconds, recognizing non-verbally the historic magnitude of this action, before agreeing to comply with Miss Ellie's delusional request??
Was Howard Lakin here yet??
"If you include Amanda and Ray in your trust fund, Jock, then I'm hiring on Cliff to run your company --- and what the hell could possibly go wrong with that ?!?"
j
And the problem for me with Miss Ellie suggesting Bobby should make Cliff a partner at Ewing Oil was not the fact that she said that -- remember, Miss Ellie lived in a world of denial and might very well want to make nice-nice with Cliff since Pam is now gone and the Barnes-Ewing feud is "over" -- but the complete lack of reaction from everybody within earshot is insane!!
Not even a pause? Bobby can't even hesitate for two seconds, recognizing non-verbally the historic magnitude of this action, before agreeing to comply with Miss Ellie's delusional request??
Was Howard Lakin here yet??
"If you include Amanda and Ray in your trust fund, Jock, then I'm hiring on Cliff to run your company --- and what the hell could possibly go wrong with that ?!?"
Mustard
Telly Talk TV Fanatic
I thought Cally was one of the few good things about the late seasons. Plotting, storylines and character consistency went out the window, though. Dallas without Pam just has all its dynamics out of whack, i.e. the threads of the series no longer join up as they should.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
See, this is how DALLAS really began "copying" DYNASTY so dreadfully -- not with the wardrobe or OTT characters like Angelica, but with an increasingly haphazard narrative which no longer seemed to respect (or even be interested in) the family's history, or tying the modern plot threads to that history in any credible way.
DALLAS eventually started doing what "bad" soaps do when they don't know what else to do, or simply lose interest in themselves: stuff just happens, mostly arbitrarily.
And I agree that Cally wasn't a bad addition, especially since her "mismatch" relationship with JR was done on purpose and not an accident. The casting of Cathy Podewell helped immensely.
You’re right. Miss Ellie did live in denial on several occasions. It’s ok to forgive. But don’t be stupid. I’m not sure even Pam would have agreed with this idea. I should re-phrase, I didn’t dislike Cally. I disliked Cally & JR.There were some good ideas, like the range war, but the implementation was hapless. Even Halleyville and the chain gang could have worked.
And the problem for me with Miss Ellie suggesting Bobby should make Cliff a partner at Ewing Oil was not the fact that she said that -- remember, Miss Ellie lived in a world of denial and might very well want to make nice-nice with Cliff since Pam is now gone and the Barnes-Ewing feud is "over" -- but the complete lack of reaction from everybody within earshot is insane!!
Not even a pause? Bobby can't even hesitate for two seconds, recognizing non-verbally the historic magnitude of this action, before agreeing to comply with Miss Ellie's delusional request??
Was Howard Lakin here yet??
"If you include Amanda and Ray in your trust fund, Jock, then I'm hiring on Cliff to run your company --- and what the hell could possibly go wrong with that ?!?"
j
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
Yes, and all they had to do was to edit the living room scene differently: silent close-ups for everybody before Bobby verbally complies.
Jimmy Todd
Telly Talk Mega Star
Some characters I wasn't crazy about initially grew on me, such as Jaimie, but I could never take to Cally. I think it was her pairing with JR. There were so many things wrong with it. In addition she could have been his granddaughter, so it upped the "ick" factor.
Taylor Bennett Jr.
Telly Talk Winner
Katzman should have been forced to appear before before an international tribunal at The Hague for foisting Haleyville upon the viewing public
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
It all does make you wonder what Katzman wanted control of DALLAS back for; nothing Peter Dunne did in The Dram Season (of which I am not a defender) was as bad as what Katzman did, or allowed to be done, to the show in its closing years -- especially after Paulsen was gone.
Mustard
Telly Talk TV Fanatic
I honestly think that it had become personal by that point. Tensions had been building between Capice and Katzman for a few years by then, until it seems the point was reached where they didn't want to work together anymore. Katzman initially lost to Capice (in 1985). A year later, Katzman had the chance to come back and win properly. In hindsight, we know that 1985 was the peak for the US soaps, with cliffhangers that year being Bobby's sudden death on Dallas, the Moldavian Massacre and Fallon Carrington's return (with a new actress) on Dynasty, and the famous "They're trying to take the babies" slow motion cliffhanger and the zoom in on a freeze frame of Valene's face on Knots Landing. 1985-86 saw ratings decline, but it was a general trend across the genre, which they just didn't know at the time. Ratings went further down in 1986-87, and continued to do so in the years following. Knots Landing had the slowest decline in the late 1980s and became the biggest soap.
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WarriorsFan
Telly Talk Active Member
There was a writer's strike in 1988 which caused alot of shows to go off track. The 1988 writer's strike also resulted in the late start of the 1988/1989 television season.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
Yes, there was very much the melancholy sense of "precipice" about the four nighttime soaps in Spring 1985.... Indeed, Bobby's death, the Moldavian massacre, Val's babies' return (the only time in KNOTS 14-year run when the show hit #1 in the weekly ratings) and FALCON CREST which had allegedly planned the end of its season with an earthquake (but after the network demanded the nazi treasure plotline be dropped, the tremor was delayed another year) all carried a heavy feeling of finality.
And, boy, was it...
From that point forward, the wind was just out of their sails, with only KNOTS staying in top form until at least the end of the decade, largely because it alone remained character-based. The other three shows seemed to be trying to "fake" it with bullshit in some way (with only DALLAS' Season 10 and DYNASTY's Season 9 worth sitting through -- both of which were thanks to Paulsen).
Katzman's self-destructive use of the dream scenario with which to revive Bobby, justified absurdly as "the only way to bring Bobby back," seemed intended to vindictively wipe out Capice/Dunne's work from that interim season. Katzman didn't have to do it that way, David Jacobs told him it was a terrible idea, but that's the way Uncle Lenny wanted to do it.
As JR once told Sue Ellen, he was going to cut his brother out of the company "If I have to destroy Ewing Oil to do it!"
Well, there ya are...
That should have given them even more planning time, the 1988 writers' strike, but it didn't help... DALLAS lost David Paulsen that year to DYNASTY (which very much improved, if not the ratings) and I thought KNOTS was just fine that 88/89 season. FC tried to go straight and get serious again, but it had been derailed too badly three or four years before, and the new team just didn't know how to fix it.
Barbara Fan
Admin
This was the true beginning of the end
Cally sucked big time, the part, the actress, the writing - all cringeworthy and that accent had me reaching for FWD or mute on a rewatch
JR and Cally was - shudder - truly awful and JR acting like some dirty old man with someone young enough to be his grandaughter
Haileyville was awful, and those 2 brothers, the range war was awful
Carter McKay, his wooly waistcoats and his badly acting family were awful - and then there was the dreadful Rose
Tommy McKee turning into the Incredible hulk on a SF balcony
Bobby sleeping with anything with a pulse
The insipid April doing what she does best - being insipid, simpering and cant act for toffee
Sue Ellens movie - who cares not me! and some of Sue Ellens hair styles that season were pretty awful and made her look hard
Barbara and Howard getting a rotten deal and not in quite a few episodes
The grainy filming
Not a season I go back and watch regularly and at the time, at least there was VHS video to dig an old episode out and rewatch the glory days with a cast you liked and cared about.
Cally sucked big time, the part, the actress, the writing - all cringeworthy and that accent had me reaching for FWD or mute on a rewatch
JR and Cally was - shudder - truly awful and JR acting like some dirty old man with someone young enough to be his grandaughter
Haileyville was awful, and those 2 brothers, the range war was awful
Carter McKay, his wooly waistcoats and his badly acting family were awful - and then there was the dreadful Rose
Tommy McKee turning into the Incredible hulk on a SF balcony
Bobby sleeping with anything with a pulse
The insipid April doing what she does best - being insipid, simpering and cant act for toffee
Sue Ellens movie - who cares not me! and some of Sue Ellens hair styles that season were pretty awful and made her look hard
Barbara and Howard getting a rotten deal and not in quite a few episodes
The grainy filming
Not a season I go back and watch regularly and at the time, at least there was VHS video to dig an old episode out and rewatch the glory days with a cast you liked and cared about.
Jock Ewing Fan
Telly Talk Star
Some of my observations,
I thought Season 12 started out well with the Range War. It was a good strong story arc.
I despised the Haleyville story. The true JR of Dallas would have returned to Haleyville and taken revenge.
There would be no Haleyville left.
Cathy Podewell did give a decent performance in her role, the material was just awful.
I think some of the thinking for Season 12 was to put JR in positions where his power and wealth couldn't help him.
What did have some promise was the revenge of Nicholas Pierce's family.
Joseph Campanella is an excellent actor, and he could have been a strong adversary if the production team had chosen
to make it a major story. JR and the Ewings against the mob!
It could have restored some compelling grit and drama.
Again, I can't understand Miss Ellie. She showed no sympathy or support to JR for his nightmare in Haleyville
Is it any wonder JR became so ruthless with such an unfeeling mother and demanding father.
Bobby and Cliff as partners - maybe it could have worked, but the writing had just gone too far downhill.
On the plus side, Sue ellen became so much stronger. Didn't care too much for her exit though.
I see Season 12 as a strong start with a series of missed opportunities
I thought Season 12 started out well with the Range War. It was a good strong story arc.
I despised the Haleyville story. The true JR of Dallas would have returned to Haleyville and taken revenge.
There would be no Haleyville left.
Cathy Podewell did give a decent performance in her role, the material was just awful.
I think some of the thinking for Season 12 was to put JR in positions where his power and wealth couldn't help him.
What did have some promise was the revenge of Nicholas Pierce's family.
Joseph Campanella is an excellent actor, and he could have been a strong adversary if the production team had chosen
to make it a major story. JR and the Ewings against the mob!
It could have restored some compelling grit and drama.
Again, I can't understand Miss Ellie. She showed no sympathy or support to JR for his nightmare in Haleyville
Is it any wonder JR became so ruthless with such an unfeeling mother and demanding father.
Bobby and Cliff as partners - maybe it could have worked, but the writing had just gone too far downhill.
On the plus side, Sue ellen became so much stronger. Didn't care too much for her exit though.
I see Season 12 as a strong start with a series of missed opportunities
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
I completely agree with you.
I actually liked this season on first broadcast here in the UK but now with my DVD's I wouldn't look near this season at all.
It has not aged well and the storylines are very middling if not nonsensical and completely unsuitable for Dallas.
Season thirteen was better put together than this season. I loved the tanker collision storyline in the Gulf with JR, Bobby & Cliff against Carter McKay. Season twelve just freezes me out and ends on what must surely be the lamest end of season Dallas cliff hanger ever!
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
Sue Ellen's movie could've worked, but not the way it was handled. And "actors" playing out old scenes from the show was cringe-y.
Yes, there was nothing wrong with the actress.
Yes, there was nothing wrong with the actress.
Monzo
Telly Talk Enthusiast
I'm still thankful that this wasn't the final season and that Dallas got renewed for two more seasons. If Dallas had to conclude on that quality, I wouldn't have liked it. For me, the drop in quality between seasons 11 & 12 was the biggest between two seasons, although season 11 wasn't great anymore.
Ever since I first watched Desperate Housewives, I've wondered if Marc Cherry had Dallas season 12 in mind when he created DH: It's dramatic but unintentionally funny. With DH the nonsense between the drama was intentional, with Dallas I still don't know to this day whether season 12 tried to orientate itself towards the lightness of the hit sitcoms of the time or not.
Ever since I first watched Desperate Housewives, I've wondered if Marc Cherry had Dallas season 12 in mind when he created DH: It's dramatic but unintentionally funny. With DH the nonsense between the drama was intentional, with Dallas I still don't know to this day whether season 12 tried to orientate itself towards the lightness of the hit sitcoms of the time or not.
I hated George Kennedy’s character, and Kennedy himself was incredibly one-note. “Hey the audience for the show is getting older, and we’ve lost some of the younger characters. I know - let’s bring in this old guy! He’ll fix things!” I didn’t like the Tracy character either - just a shameless attempt to re-do the Barnes/Ewing feud with duller characters.
WarriorsFan
Telly Talk Active Member
Fall 1985 was the turning point in US television. Primetime soaps and action shows started fading and sitcoms made a comeback.
Fall 1988 was the turning point with sitcoms. Family sitcoms that were of mid-1980s ideals (ex. The Cosby Show, Family Ties, Who's the Boss, Growing Pains) started fading and edgier sitcoms (ex. Roseanne) became hits.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
They never knew what to do with Carter McKay -- he would have been acceptable otherwise. But he was allowed disastrously to usurp Jeremy Wendell's role when William Smithers made the error of taking Larry's advice and asking for a raise when Lorimar-Telepictures was cutting back.
There goes Wendell...
Yes, sitcoms were making a comeback, but that didn't make the nighttime soaps turn bad and go south -- they did that all on their own.