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Jock and Fidelity

Bobby Southworth

Bobby Southworth

Telly Talk Fan
Top Poster Of Month
Yes, we know Jock obviously cheated with Margaret, Ray's mother during the war, but what about any other times? This is never really touched on in the series. On one hand, Jock seems very loyal and dedicated to Miss Ellie, but then there's that side of him that talks about how he never blamed his sons for having a good time. I'm a little torn. Would he have been the type to think there was nothing wrong with a little fooling around, at least in his younger days? However, the show did seem to try to reiterate that the reason Jock cheated with Margaret was because it was war time. So, I'm not so sure. I don't see him being anything like a JR, but then JR had to get his carnal desires from soomewhere, lol.
 
Snarky Oracle!

Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme
Just like the question: would Jock have really been running a chapter of the NAACP as the 1986 prequel suggested?

Would someone as unpromiscuous as Jock, resisting advances from Julie Gray and April Stephens, really have praised his eldest son's all-purpose sluttery?

The affair with Margaret Hunter was, as they said, during "war". And I'm fine with that.

But were there other reasons Ellie was "sickened" by Jock that we never knew about??

There is a faction of DALLAS fans who think Jock loved Ellie more than she loved him... I never felt that way, particularly... But then women venturing into relationships to access resources, which Miss Elle very much did in order to save the ranch, is a real thing. And could rightly bring Ellie's motives into question.

I just don't want to know that his relationship to Punk was closer than we thought.

"Ellie and Mavis have been datin' fer years --- and I never really complained because, as she always pointed out, I was 'cooter-deficient'. And it was hard for me to argue with that... That and the fact that, as she well-knows, my 'wildcattin' days' were a bit wilder than you may have realized... So don't ask me what happened between Digger 'n' me, and don't ask me why we really called him 'Digger.'.. That's all in the past...Anyway, now that Texas has legalized same-sex marriage, your mama is leaving me for Punk's wife. So a lotta things are gonna be changing around here, and I don't want to get any lip about it. Miss Ellie just wants to be happy, and I want you all to support her as much as I do..."
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Snarky Oracle!

Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme
Billy Wall said:
Wait a minute. WHAT?!?! Did they really go there? I must have missed it.
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Well, THE EARLY YEARS established that Jock was sympathetic to civil rights for black folks -- which really went against his image as a white, rightwinger oil baron from the South. It just didn't happen too much.

But those contradictions have to be accepted, or at least negotiated, if the writers say them.

Also, who knows if Jock had another agendum in posing as a proponent of civil rights? Lyndon Johnson was savvy enough to push through black voting rights and the Great Society/War on Poverty (both of which were JFK initiatives that were languishing in the senate) because LBJ was canny enough a politician to understand that by the mid-'60s the time had come, and that the Democrats would have the black vote "for the next fifty years," even though many of the "Dixiecrats" would switch parties, as a result.

And yet Lyndon Johnson was a vulgar, unhinged racist who used "the N-word" all the time. Sometimes to the faces of black people.

Frankly, I've always believed Jock helped LBJ with that little Box 13 scandal thing. And I'm not even talking about Dealey Plaza.

Oh, those crazy Virgos.

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Miss Texas 1967

Miss Texas 1967

Telly Talk Addict
I always got the feeling Jock was more annoyed with JR's infidelity because he didn't hide it well, rather than because he found infidelity entirely unacceptable. Remember Jock's comment about women belonging in the bedroom, not the boardroom? He does kowtow a little when Miss Ellie hears him, but he doesn't change his mind. Not completely the same situation but it implies a hierarchical view and I imagine that to apply across the board.
Jock + Julie too, Jock was older and Miss Ellie was worried, something his younger self likely gave her reason to be concerned. He didn't enter that situation looking to have an affair but it could've easily turned into that.

 
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

Telly Talk Champion
Brian Kinney has claimed he is Jock's son from when he returned to Southfork under the guise of Wes Parmalee.

I demand that @Brian Kinney take a DNA test, a lie detector test and an X ray test to see whether or not if this person really is the spawn of Jock Ewing or not. :)
 
Taylor Bennett Jr.

Taylor Bennett Jr.

Telly Talk Winner
there’s a scene in the first Jenna Wade episode where Jock meets jR and their longtime crony Maynard Anderson at the Cattleman’s Club to discuss a sticky political situation. Maynard’s wife had discovered his affair with Jenna and is threatening to sabotage his appointment to a powerful federal energy position (which would be advantageous for the Ewings) unless he leaves Jenna and cuts her off completely.

Jock is pretty casual, even amused about the whole thing. “I heard Melissa caught you in the kip with Jenna Wade. She must really have you on a string. Well, in my day we treated our women a little different.”

(something like that, anyway)

I suppose a very charitable interpretation would be that back in his day they were faithful, but this was years before Jock became a saintly civil rights crusader and single-handed Holocaust near-preventer after his death.

It sure sounded like “in my day our wives had to stay in line and ignore or accept our infidelities or else.” You can see JR squirm uncomfortably, realizing this is his beloved Mama that Jock’s talking about.
 
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Billy Wall

Billy Wall

Telly Talk Dream Maker
Taylor Bennett Jr. said:
It sure sounded like “in my day our wives had to stay in line and ignore or accept our infidelities or else.” You can see JR squirm uncomfortably, realizing this is his beloved Mama that Jock’s talking about.
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JR certainly didn't seem to have a problem when it appeared that Jock was messing around...Before he knew it was with Julie Gray. And Miss Ellie herself seemed to not think infidelity was that big a deal when she would make excuses when one of her sons was messing around.
 
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LMLDallas78

LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
I've always been a little torn too about Jock's view on "bad" behaviour, possibly because he was too. On one hand he tells JR his wife shouldn't go to pieces just because her husband has a demanding job and occasionally has to work away from home some nights then he preaches to JR it's about time he acted like a good husband when he became a daddy.
It's as though JR fooling around was acceptable until he became a father, like just being married didn't mean he had to be faithful.
All the Ewing women were tough in their own way, but any reaction to their husbands' bad behaviour deemed them weak and at fault.
Jock was either extremely naive or just accepted JR's messing around, maybe because he could be like it himself or he simply approved of it.
 
Barbara Fan

Barbara Fan

Admin
Oh I think that JR was a chip off the old Jock block, like father like son and I bet Margaret wasnt his only conquest. He was a male chauvinist in his attitude to women - a women place is in the bedroom and not the board room and I bet he used the 3 Bs a lot during his time in charge at EO

I do rather dislike how his character was made into Saint Jock, in later years, - didnt ring true!
 
Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

Telly Talk Champion
Barbara Fan said:
Oh I think that JR was a chip off the old Jock block, like father like son and I bet Margaret wasnt his only conquest. He was a male chauvinist in his attitude to women - a women place is in the bedroom and not the board room and I bet he used the 3 Bs a lot during his time in charge at EO

I do rather dislike how his character was made into Saint Jock, in later years, - didnt ring true!
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But Jock was a saint.

He was my GrandFather and I hold him in high regard for building Ewing Oil.

He was a gentleman and a true Texan. :)
 
Lastkidpicked

Lastkidpicked

Telly Talk Dream Maker
This thread makes me think of the scene where Miss Ellie confronts Julie Grey about her relationship with Jock.

First, we need to give credit to Chris Baker who said,

Julie Grey is “Dallas’s” most aptly named character. She inhabits a world with no absolutes, where nothing is only black or only white. Julie is all gray.

Julie assumed (incorrectly) that if she could demonstrate to Miss Ellie that no hanky panky was going on, then Miss Ellie would drop her opposition to Julie spending time with Jock.

Julie: Our relationship is not what you thought it was.
Miss Ellie: No, Julie. It's far more serious.

Brilliant writing, and good strong acting from both actors.
 
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S

Snowcat

Telly Talk Active Member
I don’t think Jock was a saint. However, he had a lot of respectable qualities. Jock earned everything through his own blood sweat & tears. He was not born into money. However, he wasn’t perfect & definitely comes from a chauvinistic era. The difference between Jock & JR is Jock was not abusive to his wife. I could see him indulging in the 3 Bs when he was out for business. But he adored Miss Ellie. JR was cruel to Sue Ellen & emotionally abusive.
 
Snarky Oracle!

Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme
Snowcat said:
I don’t think Jock was a saint. However, he had a lot of respectable qualities. Jock earned everything through his own blood sweat & tears. He was not born into money. However, he wasn’t perfect & definitely comes from a chauvinistic era. The difference between Jock & JR is Jock was not abusive to his wife. I could see him indulging in the 3 Bs when he was out for business. But he adored Miss Ellie. JR was cruel to Sue Ellen & emotionally abusive.
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Yes, JR was essentially a spoiled rich kid. Jock was not.

But I suspect Jock was capable of some cold-blooded things even JR didn't want to know about.
 
LMLDallas78

LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
Snowcat said:
I don’t think Jock was a saint. However, he had a lot of respectable qualities. Jock earned everything through his own blood sweat & tears. He was not born into money. However, he wasn’t perfect & definitely comes from a chauvinistic era. The difference between Jock & JR is Jock was not abusive to his wife. I could see him indulging in the 3 Bs when he was out for business. But he adored Miss Ellie. JR was cruel to Sue Ellen & emotionally abusive.
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Yes I can imagine Jock playing away from home and Miss Ellie being out of sight, out of mind, in his younger days. He would think it acceptable as long as it wasn't right underneath her nose.
As Miss Ellie told JR once, Jock had redeeming qualities that JR lacked.
Jock's love for Miss Ellie always appeared genuine.
 
Barbara Fan

Barbara Fan

Admin
Snarky Oracle said:
But I suspect Jock was capable of some cold-blooded things even JR didn't want to know about.
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The Dove Hunt and Tom Owens

Jonus Culver and getting him admitted to a sanitorium so they could steal his land - only he killed himself there

Jock was no saint and I always wished Miss Ellie had met Clayton when they were both younger - a nicer man and person x
 
S

Snowcat

Telly Talk Active Member
Billy Wall said:
From what we know, Clayton just had a bad temper and VERY stubborn. His character doesn't suggest that he'd have someone put away just to steal their land.

I will admit, Clayton going after his son's ex wasn't a good look.
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Exactly. That’s all we know. We don’t know how Clayton built his business. We don’t know anything about Clayton’s past. He was from the same era as Jock. The Clayton Sue Ellen thing was cringy. We could have done without that. But I think the main thing about Clayton when we meet him is he was extremely lonely
 
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