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Did Ray really need to be Jock's son?

Taylor Bennett Jr.

Telly Talk Winner
Well that's probably why he did behave like a hypocrite because it's what he did.
Christ if he'd acted like like his Daddy Jock he would have been totally oblivious!

No one wanted baby Charlies.
I feel like he was probably trying to act like 40-something Jock, who undoubtedly used the "tough love" approach, probably minus the "love" part much of the time.. as opposed to "oblivious 70 year old Jock"

(even young Randy decided he didn't want his 'baby' Charlie eventually, moving on to Paltrow, Aniston, et. al!)
 
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LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
This is how I imagine Baby Charlies. Mummy Charlie is whining and stamping her feet somewhere.

Not quite Charlie's Angels.

Ray was right to be strict step Daddy.

Screenshot_20231207_211713_Google.jpg
 

Taylor Bennett Jr.

Telly Talk Winner
Don't forget about how he acted towards Edgar Randolph. Lol
I was going to say “but that’s different!” ..but… is it? Haha!

I thought an interesting component of Ray’s ‘dalliances’ with Lucy and Sue Ellen was the “I don’t really want this, but a hired hand can’t say no to a Ewing lady” undertone/rationalization mixed in with the sleazy “take advantage of vulnerable female” lust - like he really had no agency in the matter.
 

Billy Wall

Telly Talk Dream Maker
What also disappointed me with Ray was when he cheated on Jenna with the psycho when Jenna was away.

That was really messed up. Especially considering that Ray (which he had absolutely no business doing) convinced Jenna to move her daughter out of the country. Then as soon as she leaves, he cheats.

Between the way he treated Donna and this, what did they see in Ray?
 

LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
I was going to say “but that’s different!” ..but… is it? Haha!

I thought an interesting component of Ray’s ‘dalliances’ with Lucy and Sue Ellen was the “I don’t really want this, but a hired hand can’t say no to a Ewing lady” undertone/rationalization mixed in with the sleazy “take advantage of vulnerable female” lust - like he really had no agency in the matter.
That's exactly what I've wanted to say and you've put it across so well.

It's not like he had to chase these women.

When it was handed to him on a plate he couldn't refuse even though there would have been terrible ramifications if he was found out.

Or there could be an element of him relishing his taking advantage of vulnerable women especially Ewing women.

what did they see in Ray?
Ray was a handsome man, but surely he wasn't the only handsome worker on that ranch? More likely the most available I guess with him being more visible actually in Southfork itself.

His respect for his job and for Jock obviously didn't mean much when those women flaunted themselves infront of him.

Maybe he viewed them as some kind of conquest; rich vs not so rich hired hand, as he was then.

What also disappointed me with Ray was when he cheated on Jenna with the psycho
Oh yes! What on earth possessed Ray to behave that way? He was very unlikeable then. He'd turned into a right old sad sack.
 

Taylor Bennett Jr.

Telly Talk Winner
“Oh yes! What on earth possessed Ray to behave that way? He was very unlikeable then. He'd turned into a right old sad sack.”

*somehow I screwed up including the quote above from @SueEllen's a drunk tart & unfit Mary !

he had the misfortune of being there with nothing terribly interesting going on right after Lenny watched Fatal Attraction.. Starting around then, many of the characters’ actions could be increasingly chalked up to “what were the writers thinking?”
 
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DallasFanForever

Telly Talk Supreme
Between the way he treated Donna and this, what did they see in Ray?


Oh yes! What on earth possessed Ray to behave that way? He was very unlikeable then.

It’s funny how we can look back on things differently years later. Don’t get me wrong, there were a lot of things I liked about Ray over the years but when you think about it he really could be a huge jerk at times. It’s a very complicated character to say the least, and not always easy to like.
 

LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
It’s funny how we can look back on things differently years later. Don’t get me wrong, there were a lot of things I liked about Ray over the years but when you think about it he really could be a huge jerk at times. It’s a very complicated character to say the least, and not always easy to like.
Absolutely agree. Ray was quite exciting in the early days when he was the Southfork stud.

I felt Ray belonged there in his role as the ranch foreman and was likeable. Of course him being naughty added to the excitement and obviously that couldn't be sustained throughout his run on the show.

Him and Donna should have been so much better together. They had some great moments.

It's a shame the writers couldn't come up with better story lines for Ray especially once he was Jock's son. The possibilities were endless, but they turned him into a dull character with dull prospects.
 

DallasFanForever

Telly Talk Supreme
Him and Donna should have been so much better together. They had some great moments.
I did enjoy them together and I think once they divorced Ray just wasn’t the same. To me they had become inseparable and without each other neither character was nearly as interesting.


It's a shame the writers couldn't come up with better story lines for Ray especially once he was Jock's son.
I agree. At least they came up with enough to get Steve to stay, the Mickey storyline, his helping Bobby set up Driscoll during the fight for Ewing Oil, he and Donna figuring out the Edgar Randolph story, etc. I even liked him throwing in with Bobby and J.R. in season 7 (8 DVD) to fight the Barnes family for Ewing Oil, but ultimately there could’ve been so much more done with the character.
 

LMLDallas78

Telly Talk Enthusiast
At least they came up with enough to get Steve to stay, the Mickey storyline
That was so good, how Ray had to get Mickey into shape from wayward cocky lad to sensitive mature man.

After the accident Ray’s part in Mickey's death was compelling as well as emotive.

helping Bobby set up Driscoll during the fight for Ewing Oil,
Showed us Ray could be just the same as his Ewing brothers.

Then his persistence in discovering Walt Driscoll was the one driving the car which caused Sue Ellen and Mickey's accident.

he and Donna figuring out the Edgar Randolph story,
They made a great team in getting to the bottom of it.
 

Mustard

Telly Talk TV Fanatic
What also disappointed me with Ray was when he cheated on Jenna with the psycho when Jenna was away.

I also didn’t like his reaction when Charlie went to Bobby for help ‘cause she didn’t feel she could talk to Ray anymore.

Miss Ellie even said at one point that Ray had very low self esteem. She was right.
A nice contrast with Gary there too. Gary might beat himself up occasionally over his faults, but he quickly gets over it with the usual Ewing confidence. Ray often dwells on his faults to the point of it eating him up. On the other hand, Ray does have a strong work ethic.
 

DallasFanForever

Telly Talk Supreme
Ray often dwells on his faults to the point of it eating him up
Yes, and what I thought of instantly when you said this was him being jealous of his own wife. He sarcastically ridiculed her for her book being a best seller. He ridiculed her starting an oil company and every other success she ever had, even though her success was also really his. Your wife is successful. Be happy for her and not jealous. I liked Ray but it was such a flawed character.
 

Taylor Bennett Jr.

Telly Talk Winner
Yes, and what I thought of instantly when you said this was him being jealous of his own wife. He sarcastically ridiculed her for her book being a best seller. He ridiculed her starting an oil company and every other success she ever had, even though her success was also really his. Your wife is successful. Be happy for her and not jealous. I liked Ray but it was such a flawed character.
seriously, all he had to do was lean into the “I’m a man’s man cowboy - all that business stuff is for other people” thing in a confident way and he might have handled it - easier said than done, though!

It didn’t help that Donna often delivered the “what happened to the cowboy I fell in love with?” message at a time when she was frustrated with Ray to the point of losing composure, with enough of an air of condescension to set Ray off even worse.
 
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