Pam is a nitwit to blame Bobby and the Ewings for her mother’s death

[the-lost-son]

Grieving doesn't have to do with logic or being a nitwit. Everyone who suffered a major loss knows that to some extent.
Many marriages for example don't survive if a child dies. It's such a mix of different emotions which in retrospect are hard to capture.

Lady Di's death is documented pretty accurately - it was the driver who drank too much. But as he died on site as well, one needs so. to blame.
Prince Harry in his memoirs blames the journalist chasing the car. According to other sources (which have been included in the new season of "the crown") Prince William blamed (at that time) his father for the failing of his parent's marriage and for Diana being in Paris in the first place.

Grief often shows itself as anger, frustration or even hate.
In Pam's case it was quiet understandable for me that she was looking to blame somebody, in this case Bobby
Her mother was dead, Cliff was devastated, one tends to blame the ones who are still there and most closest.
Of course, that doesn't mean it was logical (which it wasn't).

The same argument can be made after Cliff's suicide attempt and Rebecca lashing out at the Ewings.
I just wish Cliff would have stayed in coma and we would have gotten Rebecca in full beast mode for +/- a full season.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Grieving doesn't have to do with logic or being a nitwit. Everyone who suffered a major loss knows that to some extent.
Many marriages for example don't survive if a child dies. It's such a mix of different emotions which in retrospect are hard to capture.

Lady Di's death is documented pretty accurately - it was the driver who drank too much. But as he died on site as well, one needs so. to blame.
Prince Harry in his memoirs blames the journalist chasing the car. According to other sources (which have been included in the new season of "the crown") Prince William blamed (at that time) his father for the failing of his parent's marriage and for Diana being in Paris in the first place.

Grief often shows itself as anger, frustration or even hate.
In Pam's case it was quiet understandable for me that she was looking to blame somebody, in this case Bobby
Her mother was dead, Cliff was devastated, one tends to blame the ones who are still there and most closest.
Of course, that doesn't mean it was logical (which it wasn't).

The same argument can be made after Cliff's suicide attempt and Rebecca lashing out at the Ewings.
I just wish Cliff would have stayed in coma and we would have gotten Rebecca in full beast mode for +/- a full season.

I wish Rebecca had stayed. I think it would have interesting to see her battle Ewing Oil

 

[LMLDallas78]

I know Cliff had done wrong and behaved criminally, but Rebecca was brutal towards him.

She was his Mother and how she acted towards him she might just as well have handed him those pills herself. She abandoned him as a young boy and here she was doing it all over again.

 

[Ewing4]

JR was right - Pam had a knack for accumulating unearned income.

I always loved that line as it was true. I also remember when she’s talking to Cliff, not sure what season, about how they were two kids from the wrong side of the tracks and now look at them. Pam had money to throw around because of her money from Wentworth industries, and Cliff had Barnes Wentworth Oil, all because of their mother.
now I know Bobby and JR had money mostly because of Jock, but they spent their whole lives working for Ewing Oil. Cliff barely knew the and was given a company, and Pam was on the Wentworth board, both very recently because of their mother. Catherine had every right to be mad about how her father’s company was split with her half siblings that he never even knew about.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I always loved that line as it was true. I also remember when she’s talking to Cliff, not sure what season, about how they were two kids from the wrong side of the tracks and now look at them.

Pam always did know how to make a buck. She profited from a long lost mother, a fiancé’s suicide, and she even dreamed about getting her hands on Bobby’s money and half of Ewing Oil. Who knows, maybe if she stuck around she would’ve agreed to go halfsies with Sue Ellen on Valentine Lingerie as well. Pam certainly had bottomless pockets.

She was his Mother and how she acted towards him she might just as well have handed him those pills herself. She abandoned him as a young boy and here she was doing it all over again

Perhaps he should’ve handed her more of her favorite snack.
.

“More licorice, mother? Will that make you love me?”

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I always loved that line as it was true. I also remember when she’s talking to Cliff, not sure what season, about how they were two kids from the wrong side of the tracks and now look at them. Pam had money to throw around because of her money from Wentworth industries, and Cliff had Barnes Wentworth Oil, all because of their mother.
now I know Bobby and JR had money mostly because of Jock, but they spent their whole lives working for Ewing Oil. Cliff barely knew the and was given a company, and Pam was on the Wentworth board, both very recently because of their mother. Catherine had every right to be mad about how her father’s company was split with her half siblings that he never even knew about.

Agree. JR had to earn Jock's respect and support in running Ewing Oil. Bobby had an easier time,
but he still had to work at it. Pam was given the wealth and position without having to work.
Even Cliff, whether successfully or unsuccessfully, had to work at building a career before Wentworth.

Katherine was right. It was her Father's company, and she should have been given priority

Yes they were, but there's a difference between being sweet and being a Mary Sue.

Great observation.

I wonder if people on this forum know what a "Mary Sue" is?

In general, it is a poorly written/developed character with excessive, unrealistic positive capabilities and virtues.
It has led to a steep decline in the quality of a number of franchises/projects
ie the MCU, Disney productions, Star Wars, Doctor Who, Star Trek, numerous Tv shows, etc

The entertainment industry need to prioritize good scripts, good writing and direction,
good showrunners and actors/actresses...who can act!

 

[lbf522]

Is there a male version of a Mary Sue?

 

[LMLDallas78]

Is there a male version of a Mary Sue?

No, because men could never be portrayed as perfect!!

I'm joking, some male equivalents are Gary Stu, Marty Stu and Larry Stu.

Great observation.

I wonder if people on this forum know what a "Mary Sue" is?

In general, it is a poorly written/developed character with excessive, unrealistic positive capabilities and virtues.
It has led to a steep decline in the quality of a number of franchises/projects
ie the MCU, Disney productions, Star Wars, Doctor Who, Star Trek, numerous Tv shows, etc

The entertainment industry need to prioritize good scripts, good writing and direction,
good showrunners and actors/actresses...who can act!

I blame my 15 year old son, he compares Pam to a Mary Sue from his favourite film/series, Rey from Star Wars.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Is there a male version of a Mary Sue?

Cliff Barnes! Or that oaf of a step father of mine Ray Krebbs.

 

[Billy Wall]

Bobby was the closest thing to a male Mary Sue in Dallas.

1. Not only did he make the football team, he was captain and he made all-south conference.

2. He was the best road man there was.

3. I believe they even said that he was one of the best rodeo performers in Texas during the rodeo.

4. Defeats JR in the battle for Ewing Oil with much less experience.

5. Elected Senator

Others: Saves Pam from falling off a roof of a building. Rescues Lucy twice. Solves the murder of Jeff Faredy. Never loses a fight among other things.

 

[DallasFanForever]

Others: Saves Pam from falling off a roof of a building. Rescues Lucy twice. Solves the murder of Jeff Faredy. Never loses a fight among other things.

Not to mention his solving Jenna’s case all on his own as well. I guess Scotty really wasn’t needed. Bobby should’ve taken Jenna’s case from the very beginning.

He also solved the Wes riddle in South America on his own.

 

[LMLDallas78]

Never loses a fight among other things.

Bobby always won his punch ups.
A great one I love is him and Ray saving a drunk Sue Ellen from going off with some cowboys for a "party".

I'm glad he was a Male Mary Sue then.
He was always saving Sue Ellen.

. I believe they even said that he was one of the best rodeo performers in Texas during the rodeo.

They did but I'm glad he didn't win first Rodeo, that rightfully belonged to Dusty.

 

[Chris2]

No criticism of Bobby please, people. If he hears about it, he’ll threaten to take you apart.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

No criticism of Bobby please, people. If he hears about it, he’ll threaten to take you apart.

I can attest to that, he is my Daddy after all.

 

[Sarah Danner]

Not to mention his solving Jenna’s case all on his own as well. I guess Scotty really wasn’t needed. Bobby should’ve taken Jenna’s case from the very beginning.

For being such a great lawyer, Scotty almost lost Jock's murder case and did lose Jenna's.
As for the blame over Rebecca's death, Bobby replied beautifully to "If it wasn't for the fight over Ewing Oil, my mother would still be alive".
"Yes, the fight over Ewing Oil and a million other things. A MILLION other things".
And J.R, defended himself well by telling of Pam's overactive imagination. "I wasn't piloting that plane. I didn't tell her to go to Houston".

 

[LMLDallas78]

No criticism of Bobby please, people.

We really should have started a new thread "Was Bobby a male Mary Sue?"

There's plenty of evidence that suggests he was.

Male Mary Sue married to a Mary Sue, could be a whole new drama there somewhere.

 

[Chris2]

And J.R, defended himself well by telling of Pam's overactive imagination. "I wasn't piloting that plane. I didn't tell her to go to Houston".

The writers let JR score a few points off of Pam occasionally and that was smart. Another time this happened is when he criticized her for going to France with Mark Graison while she was still married to Bobby. He was wrong about her taking ”a roll in the hay” with Mark, but he was right about the rest of the trip.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

Bobby was the closest thing to a male Mary Sue in Dallas.

1. Not only did he make the football team, he was captain and he made all-south conference.

2. He was the best road man there was.

3. I believe they even said that he was one of the best rodeo performers in Texas during the rodeo.

4. Defeats JR in the battle for Ewing Oil with much less experience.

5. Elected Senator

Others: Saves Pam from falling off a roof of a building. Rescues Lucy twice. Solves the murder of Jeff Faredy. Never loses a fight among other things.

1. It was University of Texas Longhorns, one of the top 3 or 4 college football programs in the country in Bobby's time. (After some down years now they've finally made a bit of a comeback, reaching the 4-team playoffs in 2023). He would have been 'Texas famous' at the very least from that, far more than he would have been for Ewing Oil, and would have been a familiar name to millions of football fans across the country. College football may not have been quite the big money industry is is today, but it was plenty big even then, and football was and remains close to a religion in Texas. Even with his wealthy Ewing heritage, Bobby wouldn't have had to buy a drink in the state of Texas during the run of the show.

2. per (1), he must have turned down an NFL career to join Ewing Oil as the finest road man in the industry, quite possibly an even more successful 'pimp' than the Godfather of early 2000s WWF fame...

3. The rodeo announcer called him one of the best cowboys in the *country* (well, being one of the best in Texas would pretty much get you there, I guess).

4. As much as JR would boast about his business successes and blather on about how they couldn't put Bobby in charge or else they might lose Daddy's fortune... did Bobby ever do anything wrong in business? It seemed like he was always on top of things and effortlessly competent. From what we could see, aside from the occasional clever sneaky deal that JR could pull off, Bobby was objectively a better businessman. He only got in a bit of a hairy situation in season 4 because JR was outright trying to sabotage him (blocking all deals initially, followed by the prison-worthy Bullock Venezuelan tanker scheme, then the Takapa manipulation). Even then, Bobby worked his way out of the predicament far more adroitly than JR would have, if what we saw of JR's efforts over the years was any indication. Jock himself expressed his admiration for Bobby's business acumen and ethics at Lucy's wedding, and he had no idea the degree to which JR was behind everything.

5. He may have only been a senator for a handful of months, but the Ewing Compromise of 1981 not only saved his parents' marriage, but it remains a staple of political science textbooks to this day. Is it too late to appoint Bobby Secretary General of the United Nations?

What else? He turned around, ran back into the line of fire and shoved Cliff to safety after spending a day in captivity in Kidnapped, pushed Pam out of the way of Katherine's speeding car and took the impact himself (although I guess that didn't really happen)... offered to trade himself for Lucy when the dastardly Willie Gust held her at gunpoint. One act of heroism after the other, especially in the early years.. Always stuck up for Sue Ellen when JR mistreated her, even when she'd treat him like garbage whenever she and JR were on good terms. Of course he was the one to "be strong" for Miss Ellie when they got the news of Jock's crash. Not only did he buy a car for Lucy, he managed to cure her of her harrowing drug problem with one mildly stern 30-second backgammon-adjacent lecture without even getting her in trouble with Ellie and Jock. If anything, her grounding sentence was lessened after the ordeal.

But of course, Bobby was the *real* bad one since he could occasionally be sanctimonious and annoying and would shove people around and occasionally would cover for JR or even do something bad himself (after announcing to everyone that he would do something bad and explaining why). Even in the battle for Ewing Oil season, he only resorted to dirty tricks in reaction to what JR had already done.. the cocaine for Hicks (who was already bought by JR), the setup of Driscoll (already compromised by JR), etc. etc. etc. He would have gladly wholesomely Thornton McLeished his way to victory without doing anything untoward at all if not for JR's underhanded scheming. Sure, JR may have raped Holly as part of his scheme to win the battle, but he enjoyed being bad, so that didn't really count, right?

Bobby's dating exploits (which people fault him for) in the aftermath of Mummy Pam were extraordinarily mild for someone in his position (young, tall and handsome, extraordinarily wealthy, famous sports hero, affable charming personality, etc. etc.). Even the great Dr. Simon Ellby couldn't have dreamed of the "different woman every night" status that Bobby could have had with virtually zero effort.

I'd say Bobby was 20% Mary Sue and 80% White Knight..

 

[LMLDallas78]

And he sweet talked newly widowed Marilee Stone round so she wouldn't take her case against them.

And he made Cliff see sense when Pam accidentally let slip about an ex girlfriend in Election.

And he was the constant middle man in Cliff's claim being baby John's Father.

As @Taylor Bennett Jr. mentioned Bobby settled the Takapa row between his parents, coming up with a solution so they both managed to get their way.

And he got the pictures blown up of Calhoun with Sue Ellen when he kidnapped her so they were able to read the name of the motel in the corner of the pillow.

 

[Mustard]

Pam and Miss Ellie tried to stop the Battle for Ewing Oil from happening. They warned that it would be disastrous for the family. J.R. and Bobby fought against them and won.

Now, just look at how fast things changed at Southfork from the time when Cliff was in the hospital after his suicide attempt (i.e. before Jock's will had been read) compared to less than a season later when Pam left Southfork, and then later the chain of events that led to the Mickey Trotter tragedy. After Pam left Southfork that season, she didn't return to live there until Season 10 DVD. The Battle for Ewing Oil devoured so much the Ewing family dynamic, which even J.R. admitted, as he saw that Rebecca's death would also mean that much of the Wentworth fortune would be left to Cliff.

Put yourself in Pam's shoes. She did everything to stop the Battle for Ewing Oil from happening. Her husband Bobby plows on with it, and the whole battle was disastrous. Pam didn't intend it as the end of their marriage at that point when she left Southfork. The end of the marriage was caused by Katherine's actions later on, with some help from J.R. Pam just needed to get away to be by herself in order to think, and she blamed Bobby for much of what had happened when it needn't have happened.