Dallas Character Jock's Death

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I thought the way the show handled the death of Jim Davis on Dallas was very respectful.

I liked that they kept the character alive off screen for a while in order to decide how to write the character of Jock Ewing out.

Such a sad state of affairs losing Jim to a brain cancer. He was a lovely actor. I loved the way Jock could be as hard as nails one minute and very gentle the next. Such a sad loss to the show.

 

[stevew]

The only issue with that is, is that fair to Howard Keel?

It’s not about fair to one person, it’s about what what’s best for the show. Howard Keel did a great job, but unfortunately with BBG needing to go, so would his character. It’s like saying was it fair Mary Crosby left because they killed her off (though I think her character still had more they could have done). A story shouldn’t be held back from being as good as it can be to fill some notion of fairness.

 

[Billy Wall]

It’s not about fair to one person, it’s about what what’s best for the show. Howard Keel did a great job, but unfortunately with BBG needing to go, so would his character. It’s like saying was it fair Mary Crosby left because they killed her off (though I think her character still had more they could have done). A story shouldn’t be held back from being as good as it can be to fill some notion of fairness.

That’s totally different. They killed off Kristen. How are they going tell Howard Keel “BBG wants to take a vacation, so now you’re out of a job.” He has a contract.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

That’s totally different. They killed off Kristen. How are they going tell Howard Keel “BBG wants to take a vacation, so now you’re out of a job.” He has a contract.

Barbara Bel Geddes rejected a four episode deal for the show's final season.

I'm really not surprised she told them what they could do with their deal!

 

[stevew]

That’s totally different. They killed off Kristen. How are they going tell Howard Keel “BBG wants to take a vacation, so now you’re out of a job.” He has a contract.

How’s its different? They didn’t have to kill off Kristen. They choose to. And I’d argue that she was a much bigger draw to the show then Howard Keel ever was. It’s just how the story goes. Run out both contracts and send them on a trip. I’d argue they did that with a lot of actors that didn’t want to leave that were bigger audience draws. It’s how the business works.

 

[Billy Wall]

How’s its different? They didn’t have to kill off Kristen. They choose to. And I’d argue that she was a much bigger draw to the show then Howard Keel ever was. It’s just how the story goes. Run out both contracts and send them on a trip. I’d argue they did that with a lot of actors that didn’t want to leave that were bigger audience draws. It’s how the business works.

It’s one thing if the storyline calls for a character to end as was the case with Kristen, but it’s another for an actor to have his/her character end just because another actor wants to leave.

 

[Jabari Lamar]

How’s its different? They didn’t have to kill off Kristen. They choose to. And I’d argue that she was a much bigger draw to the show then Howard Keel ever was. It’s just how the story goes. Run out both contracts and send them on a trip. I’d argue they did that with a lot of actors that didn’t want to leave that were bigger audience draws. It’s how the business works.

I'm with you in principle. If you have a situation where because of one actor you're writing out a character, and thus that means you need to write off another character who's connected to that character plot-wise, even if that other actor doesn't want to leave, so be it. That's just the way the business works, whether it's "fair" or not. In this case, since Clayton is not a Ewing, it's not like you could kill off Miss Ellie and have Clayton continue living at Southfork as a widower. Most logically he had to leave to, such as they eventually did in later seasons, when BBG left again, although they found ways to bring Clayton back a couple of times.

But still, as I said earlier in this thread, I think you're looking back with the wisdom of decades of hindsight. Sure it's easy to look back at the failure of the recast of Miss Ellie and say they shouldn't have even tried, but I can understand why, at the time, it seemed like the best option going forward. They'd already lost Jock, but wanted to keep a parental figure in the Ewing family, someone who could step in to restrain both J.R. and Bobby when necessary. I get it. And as beloved on set as BBG was, I can see why they didn't think she was so irreplaceable. And getting a high profile actress like Donna Reed to take over the role probably seemed like a real coupe at the time. It could have worked.

 

[Miss Texas 1967]

I'm with you in principle. If you have a situation where because of one actor you're writing out a character, and thus that means you need to write off another character who's connected to that character plot-wise, even if that other actor doesn't want to leave, so be it.

I feel like the timing of Jenna/Charlie on the show was 1 season too long and it might have been better if they'd written them out following the Bobby breakup. Rarely did we continue watching the lives of the romantic partners of the main characters after the relationships ended.

 

[Jabari Lamar]

I feel like the timing of Jenna/Charlie on the show was 1 season too long and it might have been better if they'd written them out following the Bobby breakup.

True, it's interesting that in the dream season they then hooked Jenna up with Jack, and when back to reality they hooked her up with Ray, it's like they were determined to keep her character around so the only way to do that was have her get romantically involved with one of Bobby's relatives. They must have really liked having Priscilla Presley on the show.

 

[stevew]

I'm with you in principle. If you have a situation where because of one actor you're writing out a character, and thus that means you need to write off another character who's connected to that character plot-wise, even if that other actor doesn't want to leave, so be it. That's just the way the business works, whether it's "fair" or not. In this case, since Clayton is not a Ewing, it's not like you could kill off Miss Ellie and have Clayton continue living at Southfork as a widower. Most logically he had to leave to, such as they eventually did in later seasons, when BBG left again, although they found ways to bring Clayton back a couple of times.

But still, as I said earlier in this thread, I think you're looking back with the wisdom of decades of hindsight. Sure it's easy to look back at the failure of the recast of Miss Ellie and say they shouldn't have even tried, but I can understand why, at the time, it seemed like the best option going forward. They'd already lost Jock, but wanted to keep a parental figure in the Ewing family, someone who could step in to restrain both J.R. and Bobby when necessary. I get it. And as beloved on set as BBG was, I can see why they didn't think she was so irreplaceable. And getting a high profile actress like Donna Reed to take over the role probably seemed like a real coupe at the time. It could have worked.

I completely get it and certainly Monday morning quarterbacking is much easier than playing the game.

Having said all that, I also agree with them that they needed a parental figure to make the show work, and so the error to me was not the logic but the failure to see that what they needed to do was transition the show where JR and Bobby were the parental figures. They tried to keep them bickering children too long - frankly JR's whoring around just wasn't even interesting anymore. They didn't have too much of a younger generation but they did have Lucy and to some extent Jack and certainly other's could have developed (after all they did James but in the way they did it just didn't work for me). Again more Monday morning quarterbacking, but my argument isn't so much with their logic as it is with their insistence to stay the course while the course kept changing on them (Bobby and JR just got older).

 

[stevew]

I feel like the timing of Jenna/Charlie on the show was 1 season too long and it might have been better if they'd written them out following the Bobby breakup. Rarely did we continue watching the lives of the romantic partners of the main characters after the relationships ended.

Good point - and Charlie was another young person they could have used as my point above. The problem was they never seemed to want to make any new characters (other than John Ross and then James but he and his mother were almost like a desperate last measure) Ewings grandchildren - Chris turns out not to be JR's and Charlie turns out not to be Bobby's and even Lucas who is Bobby's gets passed out as belonging to Ray. I'm not sure what the think was here - there's only room for one girl (Lucy) and one boy (John Ross)???

 

[stevew]

It’s one thing if the storyline calls for a character to end as was the case with Kristen, but it’s another for an actor to have his/her character end just because another actor wants to leave.

I disagree. It's how the business works. A viewer should not be asked to just accept a new actress because they want to keep the character and a writer should not be asked to make it work just to keep that actor. If the actor has a place - say he and Miss Ellie gets divorced so be it, then he can stay, but a tv show is an art and a business not a charity case to give jobs to people. With that kind of think companies would buy new technology and be forced to keep on employees they no longer need just because it isn't fair. Fair doesn't enter in to it. Is it fair that Howard Keel was making more money than say a nurse or doctor that saved someone's life or a solider that risked his life to keep us free? Fair has nothing to do with this what so ever. IMO.

 

[DallasFanForever]

Charlie turns out not to be Bobby's

After Pam left the show and it was clear she wasn’t returning, I was hoping they would let Charlie turn out to be Bobby’s after all and then reunite him with Jenna. I might be in the minority on this one but that’s how I would’ve done it. Bobby and Jenna to me made much more sense than Jenna and Ray

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

After Pam left the show and it was clear she wasn’t returning, I was hoping they would let Charlie turn out to be Bobby’s after all and then reunite him with Jenna. I might be in the minority on this one but that’s how I would’ve done it. Bobby and Jenna to me made much more sense than Jenna and Ray

Jenna and Ray didn't work. There was no chemistry for a start.

Whilst Presley is an okay actor her performance in season ten doesn't do her character any favours. Jenna becomes whiny and needy and very combative with both Bobby and Pam. Charlie too became a whiny character. It would've been much better if Jenna had gone back to Bobby post Pam's accident. A shame they paired her with Ray because he at this point was starting to become a bland, tired character. Paired with Jenna they were a bland couple.

 

[Billy Wall]

Jenna and Ray didn't work. There was no chemistry for a start.

Whilst Presley is an okay actor her performance in season ten doesn't do her character any favours. Jenna becomes whiny and needy and very combative with both Bobby and Pam. Charlie too became a whiny character. It would've been much better if Jenna had gone back to Bobby post Pam's accident. A shame they paired her with Ray because he at this point was starting to become a bland, tired character. Paired with Jenna they were a bland couple.

The problem with Jenna is that she had no personality. She was VERY wooden. I don’t even know if her and Bobby had good chemistry.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

The problem with Jenna is that she had no personality. She was VERY wooden. I don’t even know if her and Bobby had good chemistry.

They didn't.

She was okay when she was introduced in DVD season eight and had a good storyline then.

However post season eight, they changed her character into a whiny one.

That was the turning point where she became a bland, unnecessary character.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I don’t even know if her and Bobby had good chemistry.

I think they had good chemistry but it definitely wasn’t Pam and Bobby chemistry. And that’s certainly understandable. But I did enjoy Bobby with Jenna as well.

 

[Seaviewer]

Bobby and Jenna to me made much more sense than Jenna and Ray

I agree with you to that extent but it would not have been necessary to (again) retcon Charlie's paternity. Also, yo-yoing back to Jenna might have made her feel like a consolation prize - but then I guess she was always that, and for Ray, too.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I've often wondered if they would've used a different scenario to write the Ewing patriarch out. Rather than having Jock missing in South America and involved in a chopper crash where any other scenarios considered instead?