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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Willie Oleson" data-source="post: 216395" data-attributes="member: 8">And even in that scenario I'd struggle to place feelings of pride. I would admire his bravery, but winning a war is not a goal it's a necessity, because the only other option is defeat of the worst kind.The men (and boys!) who fought in the war didn't do it to show off, most of them didn't even want to be there. There's no "good" in this kind of conflict, only loss and sadness.The only advantage is in the result of the conflict e.g. "winning" a piece of land or to enslave other people to your ideology or the omnipotence of your ruler.I do have feelings of pride, but I reserve them for superficial things like, let's say, winning and Ebay bidding war. Or having a very obscure CD in my collection (eventhough most people wouldn't want to have it even if I'd pay them).And all that silly pride about the world cup and football, that's fun, that doesn't mean anything. Perhaps a big part of the fun is to unabashedly revel in euphoria and superficial victory.</blockquote>