Changing Perceptions

Frank Underwood

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It's funny to me how people who've read my posts for years have come to the conclusion that I'm only interested in criticizing Hillary. Before the forum crash when I went by Sid Fairgate, I primarily bashed Republicans. I was one of the biggest critics of Bush during his administration, and I was a huge champion of Barack Obama during his presidential campaign in 2008. My values have not changed between that time and now, although opinions of me have. What also changed was my outlook of the Democratic Party.

When I say liberals were asleep during Bill Clinton and Barack Obama's presidencies, I have to include myself in that group. It wasn't until Bernie Sanders ran against Hillary Clinton that I began to see the Democratic Party was built on lies. They claimed to be the party of peace, workers, education, healthcare, humane immigration policies, and the environment, but their record reflected a far different reality. They were pro war, pro warrantless surveillance, shafted workers in favor of rich elites, weren't for free college or healthcare, had staunch anti-immigration policies, and supported fracking. Once the the mask was removed, it couldn't be put back on. The majority of Democrats had clearly shifted to the right.

Dems claimed Russia was a threat to our democracy as they meddled in primaries and used the court system to get away with it. They sued journalists who exposed their corruption. They helped tear apart families, and are now condemning Trump for doing the same thing. At one time, I was on excellent terms with the few members that still post here. We agreed on almost everything. That's why I originally thought everybody would see through the smoke and mirrors and come to the same conclusion I have, which is that both parties represent corrupt right wing interests to varying degrees. Instead, I've been told I criticize Hillary too much, and therefore don't care about Trump. I've been called a troll, a misogynist, tone deaf, told my priorities are messed up, told I was an embarrassment and a Putin tool for voting third party, etc.

I have to admit I was astonished initially. This wasn't coming from the typically vitriolic right wing members. Instead, it was coming from liberals I had considered friends for at least a decade. It became clear that a bias had formed against me for going after the Democrats (particularly Hillary) so hard, even though my opinion of Republicans hadn't changed. Some liberals believed my criticisms of Hillary and the Dems were unfair and unfounded, even though I've always provided facts to back them up. The other one is interested in proportion, and believes an imbalance means I don't care about Trump. Often times, Hillary or some so-called "resistance" Dem criticizes Trump. My response is usually to point out that Trump's position is disgusting, but the people criticizing him are guilty of the same thing. There's a lot of hypocrisy going on, and I get chastised for pointing it out.

Of course, it not just the Democrats. I also pointed out Laura Bush being heart broken over families being separated, even though this huge crackdown on immigrants began under her husband's administration. Not that it matters. Any time I criticize a Republican, it's either met with a sarcastic/facetious reply, or I get told that I'm making "concessions through gritted teeth." It's quite a silly notion when you consider I only criticized Republicans prior to the 2016 election. But nobody cares about what I posted for 15 years. All that matters now is that I hold both sides accountable, rather than pretending Trump and Republicans are the only cruel monsters to hold elected office. And that's really what it comes down to.

I don't tow the establishment line. I don't claim that Hillary's loss can be pinned exclusively on Russia, Comey, and sexists. I don't think war mongers, corporatists, and Wall Street puppets are acceptable as long as they're Democrats. I don't think separating families is an acceptable practice under Democratic presidents. As such, I've become an outsider and a punching bag. As I said before, it hurt initially because it came from people I considered my friends. I even created this new identity of Frank to try to start fresh, but that failed because I couldn't keep the charade up. But after two years of this, I no longer feel like I'm the problem. Just as I realized what the Democratic Party was all about, I've also realized what the political forum on Soapchat is all about. The few members remaining obviously see it as an echo chamber for establishment politics, which means only criticizing Trump. I've known this for some time, but the time felt right to finally get this off my chest. It doesn't mean I'm going to stop posting here, but at least I know who I'm really dealing with.
 
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Snarky Oracle!

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You're not an outsider nor a punching bag. Don't be stoopid.









**Freudian slip?
 
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Angela Channing

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The few members remaining obviously see it as an echo chamber for establishment politics, which means only criticizing Trump.

I don't see it as that at all.

I regularly discuss Brexit and how Theresa May is screwing poor people to pay for tax cuts for the rich and powerful. I've discussed how racism is growing in the UK and how our government was attempting to throw out elderly Britons because they are black and came to the UK 70 years ago. I've discussed Emmanuel Macron and Marianne Le Pen in France, the politics of the Republic of Ireland (including their vote for gay marriage and abortion reform) and the politics of Northern Ireland. I've also discussed the need for a more socialist approach to running the world economy and how capitalism has failed most people.

You may have chosen not to read my posts but it's inaccurate to say everyone just wants "an echo chamber for establishment politics, which means only criticizing Trump" because I for one am more likely than not to discuss something other than criticising Trump on the politics forum.

Could it be that it's your perception because you choose only to read threads that criticise Trump rather than those that discuss other matters?
 

Frank Underwood

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You're not an outsider nor a punching bag. Don't be stoopid.

**Freudian slip?
For what it's worth, the worst things said about me have not come from you. I don't agree with you that I let Trump off the hook, but we do agree substantively on most things.

Angela Channing said:
I don't see it as that at all.

I regularly discuss Brexit and how Theresa May is screwing poor people to pay for tax cuts for the rich and powerful. I've discussed how racism is growing in the UK and how our government was attempting to throw out elderly Britons because they are black and came to the UK 70 years ago. I've discussed Emmanuel Macron and Marianne Le Pen in France, the politics of the Republic of Ireland (including their vote for gay marriage and abortion reform) and the politics of Northern Ireland. I've also discussed the need for a more socialist approach to running the world economy and how capitalism has failed most people.

You may have chosen not to read my posts but it's inaccurate to say everyone just wants "an echo chamber for establishment politics, which means only criticizing Trump" because I for one am more likely than not to discuss something other than criticising Trump on the politics forum.
I know you support socialism and have said Bernie Sanders is closer to you politically than Hillary Clinton. But you've also said that it doesn't do any good to discuss Hillary's failings now, even as she publicly attacks Trump for a policy similar to her own. You also think it's counter productive to relitigate the 2016 election, while I think it's important to recognize and discuss past flaws and mistakes in order to not repeat them going forward. While we differ on that point, I do agree with your position on socialism. You're close to me politically.

Angela Channing said:
Could it be that it's your perception because you choose only to read threads that criticise Trump rather than those that discuss other matters?
Perhaps. I also realize that I shouldn't have made this thread such a blanket statement. It's okay not to agree with everybody all the time. This ended up being a blanket post because most members here have criticized my anti-Hillary posts for some time. But there's really only two members in particular who have been really degrading about it. They know who they are.
 
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Angela Channing

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But you've also said that it doesn't do any good to discuss Hillary's failings now, even as she publicly attacks Trump for a policy similar to her own. You also think it's counter productive to relitigate the 2016 election, while I think it's important to recognize and discuss past flaws and mistakes in order to not repeat them going forward.

We had a similar situation in the UK in the 1980s. The Labour Party (the socialist party) lost the general election in 1979 and spent the next 10 years looking inwards, arguing amongst itself about whether it should turn to the left or to the right. The result was that Margaret Thatcher and her Conservative Party weren't put under sufficient scrutiny and opposition which lead to them winning election after election.

As a consequence, Thatcher and her Conservative Party colleagues were allowed to inflict some of the most wicked, discriminatory and damaging policies on poor people, unemployed people, gay people, single mothers and trade unionists, amongst others, that the UK had ever seen in post war times. During this period, Labour became preoccupied with fighting itself instead of fighting the Conservative Party which without doubt prolonged the time the Conservative Party remained in office.

There is a time for election post mortems and a time to focus on the here and now. There is a time to look at internal party politics and a time to look out for the most vulnerable people in US society who must be crying out for Trump to be opposed effectively.
 

Frank Underwood

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We had a similar situation in the UK in the 1980s. The Labour Party (the socialist party) lost the general election in 1979 and spent the next 10 years looking inwards, arguing amongst itself about whether it should turn to the left or to the right. The result was that Margaret Thatcher and her Conservative Party weren't put under sufficient scrutiny and opposition which lead to them winning election after election.

As a consequence, Thatcher and her Conservative Party colleagues were allowed to inflict some of the most wicked, discriminatory and damaging policies on poor people, unemployed people, gay people, single mothers and trade unionists, amongst others, that the UK had ever seen in post war times. During this period, Labour became preoccupied with fighting itself instead of fighting the Conservative Party which without doubt prolonged the time the Conservative Party remained in office.

There is a time for election post mortems and a time to focus on the here and now. There is a time to look at internal party politics and a time to look out for the most vulnerable people in US society who must be crying out for Trump to be opposed effectively.
I understand where you're coming from. No rational or compassionate person wants this disaster of a presidency to continue. Personally, I'm of the belief that focusing on election post mortems and the here and now are not mutually exclusive. If you look through the archives, you can see I've criticized the Democrats while still protesting the draconian policies being churned out by Trump and the GOP. Unfortunately, many Democrats say they oppose Trump while giving him unlimited surveillance powers, a larger military budget, and approving tortures to run our intelligence agencies. I think the general public opposes Trump effectively, while many Dem politicians are Trump boot lickers. If they quit taking corporate money, quit interfering in primaries, quit supporting corporate and militaristic interests, and got behind a populist left agenda, I believe they would easily take back control of government.
 

Frank Underwood

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"It is not enough for us to just oppose Trump. We must build support for ideas and policies that give our young people hope. We must make public colleges and universities tuition-free. Me must make health care a right to all regardless of whether they can afford them. Millennials and teenagers inherited a rigged economy and we cannot leave them behind to face the consequences alone." - Bernie Sanders
 
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