Jayne Mansfield: The Lady in Waiting

[Crimson]

TV then? BATGIRL??

Jayne was kind of blowsy by the mid- to late- 60s, no? That was around the time one of the Beatles dismissed her as an old bag.

Of course, she was apparently the first choice to be Ginger in GILLIGAN'S ISLAND but turned it down, thereby giving Tina Louise the opportunity to be resentful about the part for 50 years.

 

[Crimson]

I haven't seen this in years, but that was some darn good casting for a TV movie.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Jayne was kind of blowsy by the mid- to late- 60s, no? That was around the time one of the Beatles dismissed her as an old bag.

To his credit, Sir Paul felt guilty.

Of course, she was apparently the first choice to be Ginger in GILLIGAN'S ISLAND but turned it down, thereby giving Tina Louise the opportunity to be resentful about the part for 50 years.

In that "welcome to my show" Moon in Capricorn way...

 

[ClassyCo]

The idea that Van Doren was even vaguely on the same level as Mansfield, let alone Monroe, is kind of absurd. I wonder if there's a single contemporary reference to them as "The Three Ms" -- that seems very much like retroactive wishful thinking on Mamie's part. Jayne was certainly a big deal for a brief period in the mid-50s; she may even have seemed to be a legitimate challenger to Marilyn for a year or two. Van Doren was a real small-time player, whose only brush with respectability came with her supporting role in TEACHER'S PET. where she has like 12 minutes of screen time. Otherwise her career is just crummy B-movies. Joi Lansing and Diana Dors had far more impressive careers, and that's not saying much.

Well, many will try to sell the idea that sometime during the early-to-mid fifties that Mamie was indeed the second to Marilyn, and that she always played "the Marilyn Monroe role" in her pictures. They will tell you that she was practically begged to play the spoofy movie star in the play Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter?, but she turned it down. They say that, unlike Marilyn, Mamie could easily get top billing because she did not need a man to get the top slot because she was more than capable of carrying the films herself. Once Marilyn and Jayne were both gone, she was apparently ousted by Hollywood because she was an "embarrassment".

I keep saying "many" or "they", but really it's Mamie herself trying to sell these stories.

While I won't necessarily try to defy the fact that Mamie was popular, I also won't buy into the notion that she always played roles that were vague Monroe-types, or that she was considered the only woman in movies able to act as an alternative to Marilyn. Of course, the story goes that Universal signed Joan Lucille Olander in 1953, and rechristened her Mamie Van Doren, to market her their version of Fox's Monroe. But Mamie never did the type of films that would put her in the same league as Marilyn. Sure, her look would vaguely remind casual fans of the insanely popular blonde bombshell, but her movies never would. Mamie's roles were almost always secondary ones, and usually in low-brow B-pictures that cluttered the drive-ins back in the day.

There was some truth to Mamie's name could carry a picture. She usually got top billing (or at least had her name in big, bold print on the posters) and posed seductively on the film advertisements, but she was rarely the star of her films. She was almost always the part of someone else's movie, and she was basically there for the teens that she might happen to draw, providing some since of untamed youth (which was actually the title of one of her pictures) and whatever marketability she managed to possess.

Mamie was never as big as Jayne, and she was never going to get a major studio, such as 20th Century-Fox, to promote her or give her pictures like The Girl Can't Help It and Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter?, which were popular successes in their day and have become classics. Jayne was Marilyn's only real competition, and Mamie was always hovering in the shadows of both of them really, never with any significant going for her. She did star in few B-pictures that were reasonably popular, and some of them have even gotten well-known in the cult classic realm, but not a single picture she did as a headliner can be defined as a box office smash.

 

[ClassyCo]

I recall reading the opinion that Jayne's career could only have occurred in the mid-50s. Any earlier, she would have been too much; any later, not enough. Only in the high 50s could big boobs and a coy, giddy vulgarity be sufficient for fame.

That statement easily fits Jayne. However, I recall writer George Axelrod once saying that she was "ten years ahead of her time" and that she was "actually a piece of pop art". I can see that, too. But her career does seem to be solely defined by the latter fifties obsession with blondes, big breasts, and flashy Technicolor.

Whether Jayne could have amounted to more is hard to say. I've only seen THE GIRL CAN'T HELP IT and WILL SUCCESS SPOIL ROCK HUNTER? and neither shows (or requires) any particular talent; she's fun in them rather than funny. She really boxed herself in with that exaggerated image; more of a novelty than a star. If Hollywood hadn't lost interest in Jayne so quickly, I have no idea what other movies she could made. I'm inclined to indulge in mental recasting, but I can't think of a single film role in the late 50s that she would have been suitable for.

Could she have amounted to more? I personally believe that she could have. The Girl Can't Help It and Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? were fine comedies, and she the perfect centerpiece for that type of over-the-top satirical comedy. I think she's funny, but always a caricature. When cast well, she proved she had a raw talent that needed some ironing to develop to its greatest potential. The Wayward Bus was only a moderate box office success, but Jayne's subtle performance is very rewarding.

I can agree that I there weren't many pictures that Jayne could have slid into had she not dipped in popularity, at least with the producers and studios, so quickly. I know there were a handful of pictures, such as Rally 'Round the Flag, Boys! and Bell, Book, and Candle, that had been slated for her, but she was either replaced at the star's request or had to bow out because of pregnancy. She was the type of star (and yes I say star) that films would have to been written specifically for her. Her talent lay in a niche type of picture that Hollywood only occasionally did well.

 

[ClassyCo]

Jayne was kind of blowsy by the mid- to late- 60s, no? That was around the time one of the Beatles dismissed her as an old bag.

Of course, she was apparently the first choice to be Ginger in GILLIGAN'S ISLAND but turned it down, thereby giving Tina Louise the opportunity to be resentful about the part for 50 years.

I often wonder how well Gilligan's Island would have turned out had Jayne been the movie star. She was a real life movie star, and she was adept in comedy, but I think she would have tossed it off balance by being too scene-stealing. Not sure how well Bob Denver and Jim Backus would have liked that.

 

[Crimson]

really it's Mamie herself trying to sell these stories

I think there's a touch of Jeanne Carmen to Mamie. Obviously the severity is different; Mamie had an actual career, albeit rather limited and disreputable. But from the time she re-emerged from obscurity in the 80s to ride the Marilyn-nostalgia, she seemed to overstate her importance. Universal didn't seem to regard her as more than a starlet and pin-up girl. No effort was made to build her into a full star, not even the short-lived attention that Jayne and earlier Sheree North got over at Fox. I'll give her credit though; she's still here and doing her thing. I'm not sure who the audience is for a 90 year old pin-up girl, but there you go.

 

[Crimson]

She was the type of star (and yes I say star) that films would have to been written specifically for her. Her talent lay in a niche type of picture that Hollywood only occasionally did well.

Maybe if Frank Tashlin had wanted to develop some additional films around her, she could have been a kind of 50s Mae West; but even that seems like it would have been a short-lived career. Mae's movie career wasn't particularly long and she didn't have to rely on someone else for material. Seems like Jayne's lost opportunity was to be a sitcom star, which would have suited her persona. Maybe not GILLIGAN'S ISLAND, where she would have been a supporting player, but a show built around her.

 

[ClassyCo]

I think there's a touch of Jeanne Carmen to Mamie. Obviously the severity is different; Mamie had an actual career, albeit rather limited and disreputable. But from the time she re-emerged from obscurity in the 80s to ride the Marilyn-nostalgia, she seemed to overstate her importance. Universal didn't seem to regard her as more than a starlet and pin-up girl. No effort was made to build her into a full star, not even the short-lived attention that Jayne and earlier Sheree North got over at Fox. I'll give her credit though; she's still here and doing her thing. I'm not sure who the audience is for a 90 year old pin-up girl, but there you go.

I can easily see the comparison between Mamie and Jeanne Carmen. Mamie definitely stretches her importance to the fifties and particularly to the Three M's clique, or whatever you want to call them. She and Jeanne both emerged in the eighties to ride the reassurance of people that suddenly "knew Marilyn so well", and some of it I can kind of buy, but I'd probably return it because it would look fabricated.

Universal didn't seem like they knew what they were going to do with Mamie. I mean, it seems like they wanted her to be a big star for them, but they couldn't never find the right vehicle for her, and they certainly didn't seem willing to put themselves on the line to creating any specifically for her, either. She did become a well-known pin-up girl pretty quick, but she seemed to predominantly occupy a younger demographic than either Marilyn or Jayne. Sure, those two women had a host of younger fans, but Mamie seemed cemented in that age bracket of American juveniles who spent their time riding skipping school, smoking in the hallways, and sneaking out at night with a rebel boy or girl. And naturally that audience geared Universal to placing her in a string of secondary roles in reasonably popular movies. They certainly weren't going to place her at the head of anything because her audience wasn't going to leave the drive-in.

Mamie says she left Universal around 1956 because they had basically refused to give her any substantial film roles. She apparently made her decision after they cast her in Star in the Dust, a western starring B-movie staple John Agar. While she gets top female billing, she has a relatively minor role in the story. This was what Mamie said nudged her to leave the studio. Of course, that story is subjective. The studio itself could have decided to let Mamie go because she wasn't pulling her weight. Who knows?

She did go on to have larger roles in movies thereafter, namely Born Reckless, a cheapy drive-in western she did with Jeff Richards. When thinking about this movie, I'm reminded of how she once said she was able to get top billing because she didn't need a man to carry her pictures. Well, it's easy to see why she got top billing in a movie such as this one. I mean, who the heck is Jeff Richards anyway? Her other movies during this time were all B-movie quickies that got some attention, either for their risque (for the time) content or the stars headlining them, but she was never really the star of them. Even High School Confidential, one of her more popular movies in today's pop culture, has her playing a supporting role to Russ Tamblyn.

When you browse the internet and you find pictures of Mamie with either Jayne or any one else remotely famous (I don't know if I've ever seen any of her with Marilyn), she always seems like she saddled into the picture right before the shot was took. She always looks like she was thrown in at the last minute.

​

As a trivial tidbit, Jeanne Carmen did have a bit part in Mamie's aforementioned movie Born Reckless.

 

[ClassyCo]

Maybe if Frank Tashlin had wanted to develop some additional films around her, she could have been a kind of 50s Mae West; but even that seems like it would have been a short-lived career. Mae's movie career wasn't particularly long and she didn't have to rely on someone else for material. Seems like Jayne's lost opportunity was to be a sitcom star, which would have suited her persona. Maybe not GILLIGAN'S ISLAND, where she would have been a supporting player, but a show built around her.

It might have been a stretch for Jayne to have her own show, though, because the TV censors back in the 1960s might have thought she was too risque for American TV audiences on a regular basis. Now, I could be wrong in my theory, but I think she would have done better playing "just another castaway" because she could have been controlled more, I guess.

But like I said. I could be wrong.

 

[Crimson]

Sure, her look would vaguely remind casual fans of the insanely popular blonde bombshell

An interesting point. There was a boatload of blonde, busty bombshells in the 50s who are often credited as being inspired by Marilyn. Perhaps they were, in a vague sort of way, but they had little in common with Monroe beyond being blonde and busty. The others -- Mamie, Barbara Nichols, Diana Dors, Joi Lansing, Cleo Moore, etc -- were "sexy" but lacked any of Marilyn's nuances; and some were downright flinty.

(I don't know if I've ever seen any of her with Marilyn)

I have vague recollections of a photo of the two in Mamie's autobiography, but I no longer own it and may be misremembering. If such a photo exists, it's probably similar to the photos of Jayne and Marilyn, which were basically Jayne doing what would now be known as photobombing; although not as infamously as she did Sophia, who, 50 years later, still seemed to be flummoxed by Jayne's bosom.

"Where are my eyes? I’m staring at her nipples because I am afraid they are about to come onto my plate. In my face you can see the fear. I’m so frightened that everything in her dress is going to blow—BOOM!—and spill all over the table."

 

[ClassyCo]

An interesting point. There was a boatload of blonde, busty bombshells in the 50s who are often credited as being inspired by Marilyn. Perhaps they were, in a vague sort of way, but they had little in common with Monroe beyond being blonde and busty. The others -- Mamie, Barbara Nichols, Diana Dors, Joi Lansing, Cleo Moore, etc -- were "sexy" but lacked any of Marilyn's nuances; and some were downright flinty.

You're right. About all these women had in common was the color of their hair and they were all occasionally described as "sexy", "curvy", and other generic adjectives to convey some sense of outward attractiveness. While some of them found other careers and their own fan base, whether it be then or now, all of them lacked Marilyn's vulnerability and originality. Regardless of their success, they all read as carbon copies on paper.

I have vague recollections of a photo of the two in Mamie's autobiography, but I no longer own it and may be misremembering. If such a photo exists, it's probably similar to the photos of Jayne and Marilyn, which were basically Jayne doing what would now be known as photobombing; although not as infamously as she did Sophia, who, 50 years later, still seemed to be flummoxed by Jayne's bosom.

"Where are my eyes? I’m staring at her nipples because I am afraid they are about to come onto my plate. In my face you can see the fear. I’m so frightened that everything in her dress is going to blow—BOOM!—and spill all over the table."

There might be a picture out there somewhere. I may have seen one, but I've simply forgotten that I did. Like you said though, if there are any pictures of Marilyn and Mamie then it only happened because Mamie "photo bombed" them. There's no reason Marilyn would have asked the woman "made in her image" to pose with her. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[ClassyCo]

I was thinking about Jayne Mansfield some over the weekend. Her career was such a waste really. She had a strong start in the play and movie versions of WILL SUCCESS SPOIL ROCK HUNTER? and she had the rock-n-roll hit THE GIRL CAN'T HELP IT. Those two movies are classics and they were big box office hits during their day. THE GIRL CAN'T HELP IT, in particular, is often considered the best Old Hollywood rock-n-roll movie ever produced. John Waters considers the film "the Hollywood version" of the cheaper, B-movie rock-n-roll drive-in flicks that flooded the theaters back in the fifties.

Jayne was a beautiful woman, if primarily in that over-the-top caricature fifties way. It's too bad she was linked so closely to Marilyn because maybe, just maybe, she could've gained more momentum had she went solo so to speak. Tony Randall, her co-star, once said that Mansfield's "entire career was based on spoofing Marilyn Monroe". I have a hard time with that statement, because I adore Mansfield like I do, but I cannot entirely say it is inaccurate.

Mansfield's early Broadway success was originated in a spoof of Monroe, and Fox had her under contract primarily as a "threat" to Marilyn. It's hard to discuss Jayne's career without mentioning Marilyn somewhere in the conversation. Jayne was Marilyn's only true competition, but even that candle burned out quickly. Fox had put her in THE WAYWARD BUS (the first movie she had been touted for after signing her contract with the studio) as an attempt to broaden her range and appeal; they also liked that her role in that movie mirrored Monroe's role in BUS STOP, which had been one the biggest hits Fox had in 1956.

I defend Jayne because I honestly believe she could have amounted to more than she did. First, I will make the point that she was a credible dramatic actress, but I think comedy was her forte. Had she groomed her craft as a comedienne, I think she could have excelled in comedies, especially as the racier ones became the norm in the sixties. I also think she should have focused more of her time on television, and maybe considered taking the more long-term roles she flat-out rejected. She would have done great as Ginger on GILLIGAN'S ISLAND, even though I love Tina Louise in that role.
​

​

 

[ClassyCo]

@Crimson
Is this the photo?

 

[Crimson]

Since that photo is 100% fake, probably not. I think I misremembered a photo of Mamie & Jayne as being Mamie & Marilyn.

Funny, but I spent some time sleuthing for a photo of Mamie & Marilyn and concluded that no such photo exists. Mamie has a presence on Twitter and I think if she had a photo of herself & Marilyn together, it would be front-and-center. I am currently of the belief that Mamie never even met Marilyn. I find it hard to believe that Mamie, who jumped into any photo she could -- possibly the inventor of the "photo bomb"! -- would not have documented her encounter(s) with Marilyn. Like Jeanne Carmen, I think Mamie latched onto Marilyn's memory to elevate herself out of obscurity.

 

[ClassyCo]

Since that photo is 100% fake, probably not. I think I misremembered a photo of Mamie & Jayne as being Mamie & Marilyn.

Funny, but I spent some time sleuthing for a photo of Mamie & Marilyn and concluded that no such photo exists. Mamie has a presence on Twitter and I think if she had a photo of herself & Marilyn together, it would be front-and-center. I am currently of the belief that Mamie never even met Marilyn. I find it hard to believe that Mamie, who jumped into any photo she could -- possibly the inventor of the "photo bomb"! -- would not have documented her encounter(s) with Marilyn. Like Jeanne Carmen, I think Mamie latched onto Marilyn's memory to elevate herself out of obscurity.

I found this photo and it was my sly way of dragging you back into this dormant thread. I knew the photo was fake. The first time I remember seeing it was on some fan website where one of the members was trying to sell it as real.

I honestly don't think Mamie ever met Marilyn, either. Her story has seemed to change over the years, as with most that spins these stories, but I just don't seem to believe Mamie. Like Jeanne Carmen, Mamie seems solely interested in fueling her own celebrity in anyway possible. Her career was never terribly significant, and she wants to ride whatever wave she can to get whatever tabloid-type publicity she can these days.​

 

[Crimson]

Her career was never terribly significant, and she wants to ride whatever wave she can to get whatever tabloid-type publicity she can these days.

Without her (probably fictitious) connection to Marilyn, Mamie wouldn't even a footnote in the annals of Hollywood celebrity; she was barely a third tier starlet. Her career holds almost no interest to me, but I do find her interesting. She's 90 and appears to be remarkably robust. I might wonder why a 90 year old woman is still dressing like a 25 year old trollop, but to her credit she looks better than any other nonagenarian I could name.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

My favorite non-sexual fake celebrity photo:

Marilyn, Elizabeth, Jackie ... and the president of Indonesia??? ...Why not Elvis? Or James Dean? Or maybe Hitler?

 

[Crimson]

I honestly thought that was Moe Howard of the Three Stooges until I read your caption.

It's actually a pretty solid fake, to boot. I thought it was real at first.

 

[ClassyCo]

Fox just casually lost interest in Jayne Mansfield after about a good two years. THE GIRL CAN'T HELP IT and WILL SUCCESS SPOIL ROCK HUNTER? were bit successes, and THE WAYWARD BUS showed her credible in the dramatic realm, but then it all just went off the rails.

Most biographers point to the disappointing outcome of KISS THEM FOR ME, the 1957 comedy where Mansfield received equal billing with film star Cary Grant. The film had been adapted from a mildly successful mid-1940s Broadway production, and was apparently excepted to be a big hit. In the film itself, however, Jayne is lends little more than comedic relief, as Grant's on-screen character falls in love with a demure redhead, played by model-turned-actress Suzy Parker. KISS THEM FOR ME received poor reviews; critics called it "ill-advised" and "vapid". It was generally considered one of the biggest audience disappoints of 1957. Needless to say, the film also underperformed at the box office.

KISS THEM FOR ME is where most Mansfield biographers point to as a turning point in her career. The strongest (or most visible) reason for this is that Fox and its executives placed the failure of KISS THEM FOR ME on Mansfield. She was the newer star, and they apparently placed the blame at her feet because her box office power just was not strong enough. I guess this seems plausible, but I have my issues with it. I'm personally of the notion that Fox just simply.... lost interest in Jayne Mansfield. As hard as they had tried to push her as some Monroe stand-in, it just didn't work. Marilyn was still producing big hits at the time, such as BUS STOP and THE PRINCE AND THE SHOWGIRL, and her biggest hit was hit to come in SOME LIKE IT HOT. It was clear that Marilyn would have no successor, and I think Fox just casually lost interest in Jayne as a result.

It was not long before Fox starting shipping Mansfield out to other studios. They got big bucks when they loaned her out, while she received her $2500-a-week contract salary. The first loan out, of sorts, was THE SHERIFF OF FRACTURED JAW, which reads as something of precursor to the spaghetti westerns that flooded movie theaters in the 1960s and 1970s. It co-starred English actor Kenneth More, and placed Mansfield in a thankless role as a sassy saloon songstress and owner. Her singing voice was quite noticeably dubbed by Connie Francis. THE SHERIFF OF FRACTURED is actually an enjoyable enough western spoof, even though it was not a big success when it was released. It premiered in British theaters in 1958, where it enjoyed reasonable success, and it came to America in 1959, where it flopped.

Fox then sent Jayne to England, where she filmed two thrillers. She first starred in TOO HOT TO HANDLE, where she played a sexy nightclub entertainer who wants her boyfriend to shed his gangster ways. It was originally filmed in color, but later reprints were issued in black-and-white because of Jayne's racy on-screen costumes. The film was released in England in 1960, but came to the United States in 1961, where it was re-titled PLAYGIRL AFTER DARK. Only tidbits of the film's original color prints have resurfaced in recent years. Mansfield then made THE CHALLENGE, in which she starred as the leader of male mobsters. It was a torrid little tale, that did not come until America until 1963, where it was re-branded IT TAKES A THIEF. Mansfield then briefly returned to Fox, who quickly shipped her to Greece to star in IT HAPPENED IN ATHENS. While Mansfield received top billing, she appeared in only a scantily-clad supporting role, while the film was primarily tailored to showcase newcomer Trax Colton. The film was shot in the fall of 1960, but Fox shelved the final project. The studio eventually released the film in 1962 to help recoup their investments in CLEOPATRA, the highly heralded epic that practically bankrupted the the fledging studio. By the time, Mansfield had already been released by Fox.
​

​