La Dietrich

[ClassyCo]

Marlene Dietrich had one of the longest careers in the history of Hollywood. One commentator called her "the human face of Garbo", which makes sense because Paramount brought her over from her native Germany in 1930 to duplicate the success of Garbo, the Swedish star for MGM. She was also affectionately known as La Dietrich to her fans.

Do we have any fans here?
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[Crimson]

I'm a big fan of Marlene Dietrich; probably one of my Top 5.

Her career is patchier than Crawford's, but even longer: stretching from Silents to (indirectly) co-starring with David Bowie. Like Crawford, she had the ability to shift her imagery to suit changing times. I think she was at her best in her legendary films with von Sternberg, but I'm partial to her work in the early 40s. After reviving and recreating her career in DESTRY RIDES AGAIN (1939), she played witty floosies in several action-comedy films; my favorite being SEVEN SINNERS (1940).

She was apparently the second choice to play Margo Channing in ALL ABOUT EVE, after Claudette Colbert dropped out. She had played a similar part as a theater star in Hitchcock's STAGE FRIGHT. Zanuck was apparently keen on her, but Mankiewicz objected; he said she could pose beautifully but couldn't handle the film's dialogue. That assessment was both unfair but also kind of not. She gave some truly great performances throughout her career, but in so many of her films she hardly seems to try; she often seemed indifferent or tense, particularly in her lesser films.



This Tweet from BKR made me chuckle, because it's true: Dietrich took Old Hollywood stars' ability to self-mythologize to the next level. Her denial of her Silent film career fit into her self-created narrative that she was a young student when von Sternberg discovered her for THE BLUE ANGEL; she was in fact nearly 30. Even more brazen was when, in Maximilian Schell's fascinating documentary MARLENE (1984), she denied having a sister; such a curious thing to lie about.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Her daughter had some interesting things to say about her.

And when her musical director, Burt Bacharach, married Angie Dickinson in 1965, Dietrich jealously called Angie "that slut!" And while Angie was never exactly sexphobic, Marlene had a 30 year jump on her. Burt said he thought Marlene and his new wife could have gotten along as friends but he made the mistake of telling Angie what Dietrich had said.

 

[Crimson]

Her daughter had some interesting things to say about her.

Maria Riva's book is excellent. I'm always a little skeptical about motivations and credibility. The book includes Maria's versions of things that would have occurred when she was very young, including huge amounts of recounted conversation. Either she had the greatest memory ever, or there was some creativity involved. Nonetheless, nothing in her book rings false in comparison to other biographies of Dietrich, and it's written with a combination of admiration and resentment.

Other than Marilyn, Dietrich is probably the Old Hollywood star with the most quality biographies. Several notable biographers have tackled her life, in some very well written books. Her autobiography is not one of them; it's the biggest pack of self-serving lies ever published.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

She once complained about Madonna's "homage" to her, sniping that she herself merely played at being vulgar, but that Madonna "is vulgar!" Of course by then, it was the 90s. And I've never been that compelled by Miz Ciccone.

 

[Crimson]

She once complained about Madonna's "homage" to her

I seem to recall there being rumors around the time that Madonna was going to star in a remake of THE BLUE ANGEL, which prompted Marlene's snipe. She was none too thrilled about Madeline Kahn as well. (Mel Brooks managed to piss off Marlene and Hedy in a single movie!)

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

 

[Crimson]

I generally find Maria Riva's insights into her mother to be interesting, but I clicked off that interview fast. Reminded me of how gross 90s interviews were. Diane Sawyer was a serious journalist? She managed to be giggly, smarmy and judgmental pretty fast.

Dietrich was a terrible mother, but who cares how many lovers she had.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

 

[Crimson]

Gotta give Dietrich credit: she looked good for 70. I know there was all kinds of chicanery involved -- surgery, "clamps", wigs, makeup -- but even after a half century of presumed advancements in cosmetic procedures, I can't think of many contemporary actress around that age who look that good. Whatever Dietrich was doing* was better than all of the modern Botox and fillers.

*It allegedly involved the injection of sheep embryo cells, some kind of pseudo-science voodoo that might just have worked.

 

[Crimson]

A couple weeks back, I got to see THE SCARLET EMPRESS (1934) on the big screen, at a (relatively) local theater that frequently shows classic films. I can now add Dietrich to my list of favorite classic film stars that I've seen on the big screen. While EMPRESS isn't my favorite of the Dietrich-von Sternberg collaborations, it was the best of them to see in a theater. It's a visually stunning movie that makes up for its slight story with overwhelming atmosphere.

 

[ClassyCo]

A couple weeks back, I got to see THE SCARLET EMPRESS (1934) on the big screen, at a (relatively) local theater that frequently shows classic films. I can now add Dietrich to my list of favorite classic film stars that I've seen on the big screen. While EMPRESS isn't my favorite of the Dietrich-von Sternberg collaborations, it was the best of them to see in a theater. It's a visually stunning movie that makes up for its slight story with overwhelming atmosphere.

I've been under the impression that almost of the Dietrich-Von Sternberg films were more atmospheric than anything.

 

[Crimson]

All of the von Sternberg - Dietrich films are heavy on atmosphere, but the earlier movies have stronger stories, characterization and even some witty dialogue. By the time of EMPRESS and THE DEVIL IS A WOMAN, von Sternberg's focus was entirely on the visuals. I think he was a silent movie director at heart. As a cinematic visualist, he still hasn't been surpassed, even 90 years later.

 

[ClassyCo]

THE DEVIL IS A WOMAN

Dietrich apparently thought she was at her most beautiful in this film.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

In 1971, Dietrich stated she never met Garbo. But there are arguments that she did -- and that Garbo was cold toward the effusive Dietrich.

Who knows how a Garbo-Dietrich film might've been. But of course, we know they didn't ever work together.

Y'know, at least until...

 

[Crimson]

In 1971, Dietrich stated she never met Garbo. But there are arguments that she did -- and that Garbo was cold toward the effusive Dietrich.

Through the years, I've read a number of differing accounts of whether Garbo and Dietrich ever met and, if so, the scenario. These range from casual encounters at a party (with Dietrich gawking at Garbo's big feet) to having an illicit affair.

Dietrich stating she never met Garbo doesn't mean much; she may have been the least reliable source of truth of all time. Maria Riva, Dietrich's daughter, explicitly said in her biography of her mom, that the two actresses never met and that Dietrich would have gone out of her way to avoid such an encounter. Since Maria included every gossipy tidbit possible, there's no reason she would have excluded a meeting of the two.

I think it was Davis who said that in Old Hollywood, stars from different studios rarely mingled; and since Garbo was reclusive anyway, it seems plausible Garbo & Dietrich would have never run into each other.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Through the years, I've read a number of differing accounts of whether Garbo and Dietrich ever met and, if so, the scenario. These range from casual encounters at a party (with Dietrich gawking at Garbo's big feet) to having an illicit affair.

Dietrich stating she never met Garbo doesn't mean much; she may have been the least reliable source of truth of all time. Maria Riva, Dietrich's daughter, explicitly said in her biography of her mom, that the two actresses never met and that Dietrich would have gone out of her way to avoid such an encounter. Since Maria included every gossipy tidbit possible, there's no reason she would have excluded a meeting of the two.

I think it was Davis who said that in Old Hollywood, stars from different studios rarely mingled; and since Garbo was reclusive anyway, it seems plausible Garbo & Dietrich would have never run into each other.

Funny, though, how Garbo and Dietrich are so often linked.

At least Davis and Crawford actually did a movie together (two, if you count HOLLYWOOD CANTEEN) and genuinely hated each other.

 

[Crimson]

Funny, though, how Garbo and Dietrich are so often linked

Their careers, in the '30s, was somehow so similar and yet so different. There were obvious parallels in their roles; they both played fallen women, spies and queens. The differences in style may have had more to do with their respective studios than the actresses themselves: MGM's stuffy grandness versus Paramount's Continental randiness.

They paralleled for a final time in '39, when both attempted to revive their careers through comedy. But whereas Dietrich's rowdy turn in DESTRY RIDES AGAIN gave her career life for the next four decades, Garbo's more sophisticated NINOTCHKA provided no such longevity.

 

[ginnyfan]

Ninotchka (1939), is a great movie and was a big success for Garbo. Seeing her laugh was truly a historic Hollywood moment and for a while it looked like she was able to go out of her shell and transition to another phase of her career. But then came Two-Faced Woman (1941) and those hopes were smashed.





Dietrich, on the other hand, was willing to move on, and actually slum it at lower tier studios once her Paramount days were finished which ultimately secured her with a longer career and after a lot of forgettable stuff she made during most of 1940s, her best moments came after 1948 when she worked on several masterpieces.





But, can anyone imagine Garbo in a western? Garbo as a cabaret singer? Garbo as a factory worker? It just sounds totally wrong. Most of everyone else, Garbo was a star whose image was so closely tied to the look and style of her studio. She was the living embodiment of MGM in 1930s. Tragic romances, historic biopics, grand works of literature, that was her world and she could not exist outside of it. All of this leaves her as such a unique figure in the history of movies.

 

[Crimson]

can anyone imagine Garbo in a western? Garbo as a cabaret singer? Garbo as a factory worker? It just sounds totally wrong. Most of everyone else, Garbo was a star whose image was so closely tied to the look and style of her studio.

I've read that when Garbo stopped working, she saw it as only a temporary break. Her films were more popular overseas than domestically and the pending war closed the European markets to MGM. By the time the war was over, I suspect Garbo knew her era was over. Movie stars of the '40s were generally more down-to-earth than the remote gods and goddesses of the '30s. Dietrich and Crawford were able to adapt to the new age, but it seems unlikely Garbo would have or could have.