1984-85: A season of decline

[DallasFanForever]

If a recast of Miss Ellie left a bitter taste in viewers mouths why are we will willing to accept a recast of Jock?

I think a recast of Jock would’ve been easier to accept over Miss Ellie because the character had died and at that point was gone many years. Obviously this wasn’t the case with Ellie. I’m not saying the Jock recast would’ve worked necessarily but it might’ve been easier to pull off than a Miss Ellie recast.

 

[Monzo]

On the bright side, it was the last time for me that I felt like the writers were confident in what they were doing, similar to the first half of Dynasty's season 6. After this season, Dallas looked in different directions too often to make anything better, but in season 8 Dallas was written like it was unbreakable.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Barbara Bel gave birth to that role and owned it with outstanding performances. It's why the recast was a bad decision, especially so for a prime time series.

However I'm a little bewildered by your acceptance of a recast of Jock. Jim Davis owned it until his illness and death prevented him. If a recast of Miss Ellie left a bitter taste in viewers mouths why are we will willing to accept a recast of Jock?

With hindsight it's now clear there were major issues happening behind the scenes of Dallas. Poor leadership and big egos which bubbled their way to the small screen and we the viewer were poorer because of it.

Recasting Jock would have meant better storylines for new Jock, BBG and Howard Keel, the latter two who were often reduced
to irrelevance in major storylines. You do make a good point that a recast of Jock seemed more acceptable to many viewers, for some reason.
I will always say that Donna Reed was treated badly and not given a fair chance.
For those who questioned her casting, Donna Reed costarred as the wife/widow of a Texas rancher in the movie "Backlash" (1956)
and she based her Miss Ellie on real-life wives of oil barons that she had encountered.

 

[Willie Oleson]

I agree with the idea of Sue Ellen moving away from Southfork for awhile. I’ve always felt she was rushed back there way too fast after the first divorce. I liked the idea of her being on her own for awhile and raising John Ross away from the Ewing bubble.

But would it be fun to watch her raise John Ross away from the Ewing bubble?

I think this illustrates the difference between Knots Landing and the Rich Clan soaps in which the "clan" is the community.
It was almost unthinkable that anyone would leave Southfork or the Carrington mansion, they did everything to keep the characters as close as possible.
Every now and then they were allowed to make a big point about "having enough! can't stand it anymore! never coming back!" but when these clan characters are left to their own devices they will find out that they don't have an awful lot to do. In fact, it almost only seems to work for amnesia storylines.

Julia Cumson wanted to leave Falcon Crest and she couldn't, she literally couldn't move. Sable Colby had to leave the mansion and she collapsed.

 

[DallasFanForever]

But would it be fun to watch her raise John Ross away from the Ewing bubble?

As much fun? No, of course not because the most drama comes from them all being under the same roof. But I also think the season Sue Ellen was away from Southfork and shuttling back and forth with J.R. doing everything he could to get her back home (for obvious selfish reasons) was also great drama. I’ve always felt it gave her a separate identity for a change and an identity away from the Ewings.

Does she have to return at some point? Of course it has to happen but I liked it as an alternative to at least see Sue Ellen try and branch out for once. I wish it had lasted longer than it did.

 

[Willie Oleson]

You do make a good point that a recast of Jock seemed more acceptable to many viewers, for some reason.

I think it only looked more acceptable because the recast was the storyline. Dynasty made a lot of hoo-ha about Steven's facial reconstruction and that made it more digestible than the other recasts. What happened next is another story and perhaps the same goes for NuJock once he'd move back into the ranch house. Would it be possible to completely forget that he used to be Wes Parmalee? Would it ever stop being shrouded in doubt? I'm not sure.
Was there still room for Jock to play the patriarch effectively?
Jock's death was not a choice but perhaps it would be, a few years later.

 

[Pandora]

Recasting Jock would have meant better storylines for new Jock, BBG and Howard Keel, the latter two who were often reduced
to irrelevance in major storylines. You do make a good point that a recast of Jock seemed more acceptable to many viewers, for some reason.
I will always say that Donna Reed was treated badly and not given a fair chance.
For those who questioned her casting, Donna Reed costarred as the wife/widow of a Texas rancher in the movie "Backlash" (1956)
and she based her Miss Ellie on real-life wives of oil barons that she had encountered.

I believe Donna Reed gave a very credible performance as Miss Ellie. Her biggest crime was not being Barbara Bel Geddes.

 

[LMLDallas78]

Recasts as a rule don't work especially with such a tight knit, much loved ensemble cast. Jock's might have later on as Jim was lost when Dallas fever was in it's newness. I wouldn't have wanted it but many did. Donna Reed's Miss Ellie didn't work because her Miss Ellie was too different.

We can probably all pin point a time when Dallas declined for us. The rubbish was slowly creeping in long before I care to admit that it did.

It takes bravery and wisdom to know when to get out, when to end something, to leave when the going's good.

Dallas should have been braver and quit before it did. Many say VP left at the right time or Bobby's death should have been the end. We all have our own opinions on that.

As many of you know I watched out of loyalty until Sue Ellen left. I didn't like many storylines by now but no way could I leave while she was still there. As a youngster I thought she was the best thing to ever grace my TV screen and it was a sad day when her exit was aired. My affection and admiration for Linda Gray and Sue Ellen remains to this day.

Dallas struggled on for another 2 seasons after Sue Ellen's departure before ending. Declining viewing figures, constant re hashed stories, comedic tones, which made a mockery of a once powerful drama, along with the threat of being cancelled should have been enough for Dallas to initiate a much earlier and better deserved dignified ending.

When things start to turn sour and no longer feel genuine and all ideas to rejuvenate have been exhausted, that's the time to bow out gracefully. That's the time for a proper, heart felt Swan song.

"Great is the art of beginning but greater is the art of ending".

 

[DallasFanForever]

When things start to turn sour and no longer feel genuine and all ideas to rejuvenate have been exhausted, that's the time to bow out gracefully. That's the time for a proper, heart felt Swan song.

I agree with you. For me it went on about 6 years too long. I wish it had ended on a higher note compared to staying on the air too long and becoming a shell of itself.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I believe Donna Reed gave a very credible performance as Miss Ellie. Her biggest crime was not being Barbara Bel Geddes.

Completely true. Many Dallas fans were unwilling to give anyone else a chance. Any actress would have had a different interpretation on
how to play the character.
Yes, BBG was memorable as Miss Ellie, and at the time, she was not expected to return. Donna Reed was a skilled actress, with an Academy award for "From Here to Eternity", major roles in dozens of movies, and an iconic sitcom for 8 years. Her performance as Miss Ellie is not only credible, as you indicate, but also highly underrated.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

es, BBG was memorable as Miss Ellie, and at the time, she was not expected to return

BBG "was not expected to return" because she was, essentially, fired over contract issues.

 

[Pandora]

Completely true. Many Dallas fans were unwilling to give anyone else a chance. Any actress would have had a different interpretation on
how to play the character.
Yes, BBG was memorable as Miss Ellie, and at the time, she was not expected to return. Donna Reed was a skilled actress, with an Academy award for "From Here to Eternity", major roles in dozens of movies, and an iconic sitcom for 8 years. Her performance as Miss Ellie is not only credible, as you indicate, but also highly underrated.

Sadly I believe this led to another mistake .... not re-casting when Victoria Principal left. I am sure the executives were like Are you crazy? Look what happened when we tried that with Miss Ellie?

 

[Jock Og]

Recasting Jock would have meant better storylines for new Jock, BBG and Howard Keel, the latter two who were often reduced
to irrelevance in major storylines. You do make a good point that a recast of Jock seemed more acceptable to many viewers, for some reason.
I will always say that Donna Reed was treated badly and not given a fair chance.
For those who questioned her casting, Donna Reed costarred as the wife/widow of a Texas rancher in the movie "Backlash" (1956)
and she based her Miss Ellie on real-life wives of oil barons that she had encountered.

I believe Donna Reed gave a very credible performance as Miss Ellie. Her biggest crime was not being Barbara Bel Geddes.

One of my first posts on this area of the web 23.5 years ago (then Ultimate Dallas) was how I felt so sorry for Donna Reed and how she wasn't accepted, to a large degree. There was one thing for sure she wasn't going to base her Ellie on BBG's original, not that I thought she should have done or even could have done.

It's not as if the TPTB didn't know what they could have been setting themselves up for, when they hired another actress. Donna Reed was in a 'Catch 22' scenario i.e. she couldn't do right for doing wrong. Had Larry Hagman's mother Mary Martin been cast as the matriarch I feel she would have been in the same sticky wicket (even with her son's prominence), as Donna. Sadly the Big C was the end, 8 months after 'Swan Song'. I'm glad the lawsuit was successful. Eternal rest to Donna Reed!

Donna Reed's last publicity photo, with Howard Keel at her side (DALLAS 1985).


A furniture company's delivery van is at Southfork. Clayton has just parked his blue Rolls Royce Silver Spirit behind J.R.'s olive green Mercedes SEL. Ellie played by Donna Reed arrives to tell the furniture company's employee where to put her purchases, (a scene from season 7; DVD-8, 1984 - '85):

Ellie signs the delivery docket: "Thank you!"

Ellie to Clayton: "For us, it's a new set of bedroom furniture. Donna helped me choose it yesterday and I got them to deliver it today."

Clayton seems surprised: "Bedroom furniture."

Ellie: "I thought it was time for a change."

Ellie and Clayton kiss.

The Ewing matriarch then gives her orders to the delivery man: "Follow me and I'll show you where to put everything."

J.R. c/w trademark Stetson and briefcase in hand, appears on the patio: "Hey mama what's going on?"

Ellie smiling: "A new set of bedroom furniture for Clayton and me."

She walks off to get everything arranged.

J.R. squares up to Clayton: "Oh really! How about that."

J.R.: "Well I have to hand it to you. You're not here a week and you're changing things around already."

Clayton: "For your information it was mother's decision and since it's our bedroom and not yours, it is really none of your business. Is it?"

J.R. chuckles and in his best English accent, replies to his stepfather: "I suppose not!"

He goes to get into his Merc'. However he notices Clayton has him blocked in.

J.R. politely asks Clayton: "Could you arrange to have that blue thing moved out of the way, so I can get my car outta here?"

Clayton throws his Rolls Royce keys at him and replies: "Be my guest!"

J.R. is not amused.

 

[DallasFanForever]

Sadly I believe this led to another mistake .... not re-casting when Victoria Principal left. I am sure the executives were like Are you crazy? Look what happened when we tried that with Miss Ellie?

No way were they going to recast Pam permanently after what happened with Miss Ellie. Their only option was doing what they did and leaving it open. But had the Donna Reed/BBG thing not happened then who knows.

 

[Rove]

I am sure the executives were like Are you crazy? Look what happened when we tried that with Miss Ellie?

And let's not forget their tinkering with Jock Ewing with the introduction of Ben Stivers/Wes Parmalee. The producers dealings with Barbara Bel and recasting Miss Ellie to the detriment of Dallas should have been a huge wake-up call not to even think of going down that path again...but again they did. Who thought it was a good idea to potentially bring back Jock Ewing with a new face or re-cast (which they briefly did) Pam? The mind boggles how juvenile and amateurish producing/writing had become on Dallas.

And yet, I still watched to the bitter end. Bring on the Blu-Ray release.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

And let's not forget their tinkering with Jock Ewing with the introduction of Ben Stivers/Wes Parmalee. The producers dealings with Barbara Bel and recasting Miss Ellie to the detriment of Dallas should have been a huge wake-up call not to even think of going down that path again...but again they did. Who thought it was a good idea to potentially bring back Jock Ewing with a new face or re-cast (which they briefly did) Pam? The mind boggles how juvenile and amateurish producing/writing had become on Dallas.

And yet, I still watched to the bitter end. Bring on the Blu-Ray release.

Many of us, as you know, loved the Wes Parmalee story -- as outrageous as it was. The difference (as stated above) was that the Parmalee story was about whether or not he was an imposter, but with Donna Reed, the changing face wasn't supposed to be an issue... it just Mis-Ellie... so please, everybody, just play along.

I mean, yeah, it's just acting, it's just pretend, and sometimes re-casts work and sometimes they don't. But there are rules: daytime is a medium with a much greater suspension of disbelief -- like the stage -- so anybody can be re-cast halfway through Act II; primetime TV rarely permits for the re-casting of core characters -- only minor characters we don't really know very well; and you don't re-cast the Emmy-winning matriarch of the biggest drama series in the history of global television unless you're stupid.

Somebody was stupid. And there was a disconnect between the DALLAS producers and the Lorimar executives, because as the Katzman/Paulsen/Lewis trio began quickly cutting Donna Reed back in the scripts significantly, the brass at Lorimar extended Reed's contract for two years.

What could go wrong?

 

[Willie Oleson]

Who thought it was a good idea to potentially bring back Jock Ewing with a new face or re-cast (which they briefly did) Pam?

This is one of those things in long-running series that can happen when the original dynamics have been exhausted. Was there anything that hadn't happened between Cliff and JR or between JR and Sue Ellen?
The only seriously missed opportunity I can think of is to have Katherine (as Bobby's wife of fiancée) live on Southfork for at least half a season. Sh*t hits the fan when Bobby and Pam discover that they still love each other, etc.

So there's the option to create new dynamics with new characters (not many of them are super-loved by the Dallas fanbase) or to hark back to previous characters, in this case Jock.
As I've said before it's all a bit more challenging for a story that centers around a relatively small group of people (the two families) but even the community soap PEYTON PLACE had pulled a "Pam Ewing" when they couldn't let go of Allison McKenzie. Two big story arcs played by two actresses were connected with Allison's mysterious disappearance.

I'm not defending lazy writing but I don't think Wes Parmalee/Jock falls into that category. It's nuts and over-the-top but something needs to be done to keep the episodes coming.

Somebody was stupid. And there was a disconnect between the DALLAS producers and the Lorimar executives, because as Katzman/Paulsen/Lewis trio began quickly cutting Donna Reed back in the scripts significantly, the brass at Lorimar extended Reed's contract for two years.

I don't know the details that caused the disagreement between Barbara Bel Geddes and the makers of DALLAS, but it's tempting to assume that they thought that the success of the series had made the continuation of the series self-sufficient, which was even more evident in DYNASTY.
I could imagine that, being ratings hit, the people at the top would become a little power-drunk and that it wasn't necessarily about the nature of BBG's requests or demands but the very idea that she had the "nerve" to challenge DALLAS' indestructible machinery. But I'm just speculating.

 

[DallasFanForever]

The only seriously missed opportunity I can think of is to have Katherine (as Bobby's wife of fiancée) live on Southfork for at least half a season

If they were going to do this, the perfect time would’ve been right after Bobby and Pam divorced and before we knew Katherine was nuts. Katherine living at Southfork for awhile could’ve been quite memorable. I can see her and J.R. scheming under the same roof together. Of course it does require a little suspension of disbelief given Bobby’s high morals and reluctance to get involved with Pam’s sister, but this could’ve been interesting for awhile. It ties in perfectly timing wise and it works until the letter becomes evident at the end of the season. I can see Pam storming to Southfork to confront Katherine and alert Bobby once she finds out the truth.

 

[Sarah Danner]

Being a fan of the NBC daytime program Texas, I've wondered how Josephine Nichols (who played Marshall family matriarch Kate) would have been received as Miss Ellie.

 

[Rove]

Of course it does require a little suspension of disbelief given Bobby’s high morals and reluctance to get involved with Pam’s sister

Would this simply be history repeating itself? JR gets cosy between the sheets with Kristin Shepherd and now we are expected to believe Bobby would slip between the sheets with Katherine? It's all beginning to sound a little like The Bold & The Beautiful. If Katherine was written to mirror the character of Patricia Hamilton on Sons and Daughters I could believe it. But this would require a slow burn and only the viewer was in on her devious methods of getting the clueless Bobby.

This would have been a joy to watch only for it to all unravel for Katherine when Afton discovers the forged letter just as Bobby is about to marry Katherine on the Southfork driveway. Bobby ditches Katherine at the alter, kicks her off Southfork and makes a call to Pam to urgently come over. Katherine of course overhears this conversation, gets in her car and as she recognises Pam's vehicle approaching her on Parker Road intentionally slams into her, with the resulting fireball killing off 2 memorable characters.

This would have been so wicked, so shocking...so delicious.