A New Dynamic?

[stevew]

Another question: IF they were to return to Dallas should the dynamic change?

One of my biggest issues is I didn't buy John Ross and Chris becoming the characters they created. I saw John Ross growing up to be the strong, ruthless and good man Jock was and Chris being more angry, hurt and ruthless like his uncle JR. Instead what I got was two week boys, one the outcast that daddy abandoned and the other who could tie his shoe without his dad. This was a problem for me that needs correcting.

Please give me you opinion on the above and any other thoughts on the group dynamics that were of issue to you.

 

[Rove]

When Dallas TNT returned I liked John Ross in the field drilling for oil and celebrating with his mates at the bar. At that point John Ross reminded me more of Jock than J.R. Christopher on the other hand appearing in a lab coat and looking at alternative energies was also a good fit. In hindsight I thought this is a good start - minus the Elena nonsense. We had one of the boys doing things the old way, while the other was attempting something new (fracking) which by the way is causing major concerns around the world generally in farming communities. For John Ross it was old school versus Christopher, new school. So this push/pull effect was the right path. The involvement of Southfork was also crucial in all this...so the story was there.

 

[stevew]

When Dallas TNT returned I liked John Ross in the field drilling for oil and celebrating with his mates at the bar. At that point John Ross reminded me more of Jock than J.R. Christopher on the other hand appearing in a lab coat and looking at alternative energies was also a good fit. In hindsight I thought this is a good start - minus the Elena nonsense. We had one of the boys doing things the old way, while the other was attempting something new (fracking) which by the way is causing major concerns around the world generally in farming communities. For John Ross it was old school versus Christopher, new school. So this push/pull effect was the right path. The involvement of Southfork was also crucial in all this...so the story was there.

Agreed it was there and like Jock I would have excepted John Ross pushing forward with what ever it took but I couldn't stand all good Chris and all bad John Ross Amy more then if in the original they'd made Digger the good guy. They were more complex then black and white. It's what made it compelling. Part of it I think they needed Bobby out of the way. His character was a major problem in the story imo. Good points. Thank you.

 

[Rove]

Part of it I think they needed Bobby out of the way. His character was a major problem in the story

I've read numerous posts on old and new Soapchat about the character of Bobby on Dallas TNT. I'm not sure what was grating people but I can only conclude Patrick could only deliver the lines and follow direction on what was presented to him, and that was the underlying failure of Dallas TNT - the writing.

In the original series run 1978-1991, Southfork was left to Bobby by Miss Ellie. I thought this was a natural fit since Bobby had a deeper affection for the ranch than his brothers. J.R. got miffed because he just assumed as the first born he was entitled to it. When Dallas TNT returned I pictured an aging Bobby as caretaker of Southfork. Enjoying life still as a ranch hand, managing the property, employees and keeping developers at arms length - a person enjoying his twilight years.

Dallas would not be Dallas without the characters of J.R., Bobby and Sue Ellen. The initial trailer showed promise, "There will be no drilling on Southfork." And further, "I'm sick to death of this family devouring itself over money." Personally I could have lived without the character of Ann, we didn't need her or the Ryland family. We didn't need Elena or the Ramos family. THIS IS ABOUT THE EWING FAMILY, first and foremost.

The story of John Ross purchasing land adjacent to Southfork and steels Christopher's fracking technology to unlock billions of oil sitting below the ranch - or something to that affect - was a good one. This was the trigger required for new Dallas. It spurs Bobby to protect Miss Ellie's legacy, Southfork. It drags J.R. into the story when it's revealed he secretly bank-rolled John Ross's drilling exploration.

I could easily have lived with the fact J.R. was living in Dallas at another mansion conjuring up schemes to get what he is really after - all that oil. I hated the fact the writers had him in a nursing home in a drug induced stupor. One visit from John Ross and he miraculously wakes up? Seriously!

The first several episodes is a tug-of-war with Bobby and Christopher protecting Southfork and J.R. and John Ross desperately trying to access the biggest oil discovery in Texas history - and it sits directly below Southfork. But Bobby has an ace up his sleeve and makes a frantic call.

As the annual Ewing Bar-b-Que is under way Bobby, Christopher, J.R. and John Ross, standing on the land in front of Southfork confront each other about true ownership of Southfork and the oil that sits below it. A helicopter appears in the distance and makes a grand landing entrance. The pilot opens the door and out steps Sue Ellen.

Mama Ewing is home...brace yourselves my dear's.

Just on an end note and as much as I hate to put this out there in Soapchat Land. I don't believe we needed Cliff or any remnants of the Barnes family in new Dallas. That story was best left in the past.

 

[stevew]

Nicely put. A few comments:

I agree with you on Cliff actually. That fued was warn out. I would have liked to him guest star. And I'd have loved to see him thrilled at John Ross being his son in law, as the son he always wanted him to be. I could also see him just laughing at JR. But yea the whole fued was over.

But I also felt the fight over Southfork oil was over and done and getting at it worthless - though I liked the slant drilling. I also thought if Bobby just gave JR the house he'd have been happy and it would have been a fair way to share. Which is what The Bobby I knew would have done to make peace just like he did over the fight for Ewing Oil.

If they hadn't ignored the two movies I could see him retired on a yacht in the Gulf figuring out ways to get Ewing Oil back from who every Bobby and Sue Ellen sold it to, figuring out how to get the mansion from Bobby, figuring out the next big deal for his JRE Enterprises. Though I do like your rendering.

As for not liking Bobby in Dallas 2012 I felt they took away his decentcy. Bobby would have yelled about fighting and when Chris spoke up in Jock fashion told him to watch his mouth. Bobby would have thought of slant drilling. Because Bobby would have kicked Chris's ass for proposing to Elena. Bobby would never have turned a Ewing away from South Fork. I felt the writing was just off on him and he wasn't strong he was bitter and not against JR but against John Ross who he would have made every excuse for his behavior.

I agree with you that I liked the dynamic how they set it up. Just poor follow through. Thank you very much for your thoughts.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

They needed one of the boys to grow up to be a lot like Jock but there is no way either of those actors ever could have pulled off that role convincingly. Neither had the stature, the personality, or the strength to do that. When you think of the Ewing men you think of tall, robust guys who liked to fight and neither of those actors was even 6 feet tall, ever show he could fight worth a damn, or had the brains, the individuality, ruggedness and ambition Jock did.

 

[stevew]

They needed one of the boys to grow up to be a lot like Jock but there is no way either of those actors ever could have pulled off that role convincingly. Neither had the stature, the personality, or the strength to do that. When you think of the Ewing men you think of tall, robust guys who liked to fight and neither of those actors was even 6 feet tall, ever show he could fight worth a damn, or had the brains, the individuality, ruggedness and ambition Jock did.

I agree with your premise but disagree that Josh Henderson couldn't pull it off. No he'd never be a big man like Jock, JR and Bobby but I saw him as a grown up John Ross when he was with both Linda Gray and Larry Hagman. There were scenes where he took beating and ran into danger. I think if they gave him the right writing he'd have pulled off the ruggedness. Instead they seemed to try and give that role to Chris and Jesse Metcalf couldn't pull it off. He was better at the handsome nerd, bit frat boy, bit science geek. But again totally agree with you about the need for ruggedness.

Would have loved a scene where Chris is harassed at the bar and John Ross sticks up for him and the two start a bar fight followed by a South Fork scene with Bobby wished he'd been there and Ann is appualed - as in the original with Jock.

Thanks so much for the need for the rugged cowboy.

 

[stevew]

They needed one of the boys to grow up to be a lot like Jock but there is no way either of those actors ever could have pulled off that role convincingly. Neither had the stature, the personality, or the strength to do that. When you think of the Ewing men you think of tall, robust guys who liked to fight and neither of those actors was even 6 feet tall, ever show he could fight worth a damn, or had the brains, the individuality, ruggedness and ambition Jock did.

Btw my wife agrees with you that neither could have pulled it off. She pictured the brothers in Supernstural.

 

[Rove]

I was nervous when it was announced that Josh Henderson and Jesse Metcalfe were hired as John Ross and Christopher. My initial reaction was "Really? Pretty boys?" But then Josh nailed it with that kitchen scene with Linda. When he slammed his hand on that kitchen bench and exclaimed, "I am not my father!", it was powerful to watch. It reminded me very much of the scene of Miss Ellie in the Southfork kitchen when she finally lost it over Jock's death.

I'm still not sold on Jesse playing Christopher. Others have suggested it wasn't Jesse's fault but the writing and direction, I'm still not convinced though. To me he always appeared to have a smugness when playing his scenes. When he finally discovered the truth about his mother (Pam) his reaction didn't quite have the emotional impact on me as it should have.

Josh on the other hand was capable of displaying multiple emotions. I expected this from a grown up John Ross. Look at his upbringing, the constant bickering between his parents, the expectation he was going to be the next J.R.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

I was nervous when it was announced that Josh Henderson and Jesse Metcalfe were hired as John Ross and Christopher. My initial reaction was "Really? Pretty boys?" But then Josh nailed it with that kitchen scene with Linda. When he slammed his hand on that kitchen bench and exclaimed, "I am not my father!", it was powerful to watch. It reminded me very much of the scene of Miss Ellie in the Southfork kitchen when she finally lost it over Jock's death.

I'm still not sold on Jesse playing Christopher. Others have suggested it wasn't Jesse's fault but the writing and direction, I'm still not convinced though. To me he always appeared to have a smugness when playing his scenes. When he finally discovered the truth about his mother (Pam) his reaction didn't quite have the emotional impact on me as it should have.

Josh on the other hand was capable of displaying multiple emotions. I expected this from a grown up John Ross. Look at his upbringing, the constant bickering between his parents, the expectation he was going to be the next J.R.

I don't remember the details of that incident,but I do remember that John Ross didn't want to be regarded as similar to JR. So, for this of you who remember the Cidre series better, I have a question: How do you think it would have worked out of John Ross had taken the opposite way of thinking about his dad and said to Sue Ellen "That's right, I am just like my father! That's the best compliment you could ever give me"!

 

[stevew]

I was nervous when it was announced that Josh Henderson and Jesse Metcalfe were hired as John Ross and Christopher. My initial reaction was "Really? Pretty boys?" But then Josh nailed it with that kitchen scene with Linda. When he slammed his hand on that kitchen bench and exclaimed, "I am not my father!", it was powerful to watch. It reminded me very much of the scene of Miss Ellie in the Southfork kitchen when she finally lost it over Jock's death.

I'm still not sold on Jesse playing Christopher. Others have suggested it wasn't Jesse's fault but the writing and direction, I'm still not convinced though. To me he always appeared to have a smugness when playing his scenes. When he finally discovered the truth about his mother (Pam) his reaction didn't quite have the emotional impact on me as it should have.

Josh on the other hand was capable of displaying multiple emotions. I expected this from a grown up John Ross. Look at his upbringing, the constant bickering between his parents, the expectation he was going to be the next J.R.

Good points. I also never wanted to see him be the next JR. JR was his mommas only child for a long time before his dad returned and "taught" him "dirty" business only to pull the rug out of him for the "cleaner" brother. Of course JR was going to be JR. A wife who probably married him for money and status (at least it was her mommas game plan), a traditional mother who ignored the tradition of the ranch going to the oldest son, a father driven to make money at all cost. But John Ross wasn't that. His father was destroyed (even more so without the 2 movies) by seeking money, his mother was a drunk (and I guess never did get away from the bottle for to long) seeking out her position and worth from a material world and men. This boy was never going to grow up to be JR. I know I talk a lot about him being Jock but what I had hope was he'd be Clayton. I always had the feeling with his sister that Clayton parents must have been pretty messed up too (maybe not JR and Sue Ellen messed up but messed up). He'd grow up to be a strong fighter and desperate to find someone to love him and protect him and hate those who betray him (Elena).

On the subject I pictured Pamela to be like Angela Channing - someone had to be the adult among her pathetic parents. I'm sure she was at boarding schools and had to learn to take care of herself not because of abuse but neglect. She'd grow up to be a control freek from a world out of control. Clayton reminded me of Peter Stavos too.

Then Chris, bitter his mother left, probably never good enough for His father, especially if more brainy than macho, more pretty boy then cowboy. Desperate to prove himself, especially being adopted. Jealous all the attention John Ross got. Always wanting what John Ross had. Always feeling rejected by his older, cooler cousin. Kinda more like JR, especially if the movies happened and his super rich uncle JR explained business to him.

 

[stevew]

I don't remember the details of that incident,but I do remember that John Ross didn't want to be regarded as similar to JR. So, for this of you who remember the Cidre series better, I have a question: How do you think it would have worked out of John Ross had taken the opposite way of thinking about his dad and said to Sue Ellen "That's right, I am just like my father! That's the best compliment you could ever give me"!

In the end he sort of did. He said he was actually worse. To me it fell flat and childish. A better line would have been, "No you're wrong, I'm not like my daddy. He cared about the family that betrayed him."

 

[Rove]

"That's right, I am just like my father! That's the best compliment you could ever give me"!

It was inevitable John Ross would have traits of J.R. Loved the booze, women (in one case two at once), dirty dealings etc. Sue Ellen on the other hand desperately attempted to keep her son on the straight and narrow. I didn't wish John Ross to be a carbon copy of J.R. That would have been far too predictable and boring to watch. Take out most of the nonsense that was Dallas TNT and there was a glimmer of hope of what I expected to see with the Ewing family in 2012. By the third season Josh was settling in the role and it appeared the writers were beginning to see this by giving him material to draw out his range of emotions. I loved the dark/light shades of John Ross, this is exactly how I interpreted him to be as a young adult after being raised by J.R. and Sue Ellen.

 

[stevew]

Yes I like him bring the hot, womazier, oil rigger bad boy. Somewhat like JR but I thought more like JR which he had been when he was younger - I got the impression JR whored around later in life not earlier. Maybe like he was more awkward at a younger age. Just my impression.

I agree. I thing he would have had highs and lows - big swings at times. I also wish they'd done more with his dyslexia. But end the end I saw him growing up to be a dad who was still a lot like a kid who just had fun with his kids, always battling depression and dyslexia.

What I like about the scene with Emma and Pamela that they could have used is he could have said to Pamela with a cocky grin "bull shit darlin', you were willing to die for me. You love me. No one in this world ever really loved me. But you do. And if it takes the rest of my life you'll know that I love you". Then he sends the gay Arab prince who pretended to sleep with Pamela back to his country when he's outed and put to death. And he goes to Mexico and tells Cliff he's going to play the mentally ill father who isn't responsible for hurting her and her babies and is seeking help - or John Ross will send in a few friends to visit him in jail. He then takes control of Ewing Global and gives her the Barnes Global assests. A drunk Chris assults her and John Ross beats his ass over the county line. Stuff like that to prove himself in a more physical way then JR would have done. And turn over the decorating of South Fork to her.

 

[Rove]

I got the impression JR whored around later in life not earlier. Maybe like he was more awkward at a younger age. Just my impression.

That's what I've always thought of J.R. as a teenager and potentially into his early twenties. Not so much a nerd but awkward around the opposite sex. I can picture Jock and a youthful dutiful son returning to Southfork after a day at the office only to be confronted by Bobby and his harem of Dallas beauties sunning themselves around the pool. J.R. shows an interest from afar and is even nudged a little by Jock, "J.R. you've earned a rest, go and join your brother and have some fun." J.R. still admiring the beauties replies, "Daddy we have contracts to sign before dinner. You know how momma doesn't like us talkin' business at home."

I believe J.R. discovered his insatiable appetite for women when his eligible bachelor status grew.

 

[stevew]

That's what I've always thought of J.R. as a teenager and potentially into his early twenties. Not so much a nerd but awkward around the opposite sex. I can picture Jock and a youthful dutiful son returning to Southfork after a day at the office only to be confronted by Bobby and his harem of Dallas beauties sunning themselves around the pool. J.R. shows an interest from afar and is even nudged a little by Jock, "J.R. you've earned a rest, go and join your brother and have some fun." J.R. still admiring the beauties replies, "Daddy we have contracts to sign before dinner. You know how momma doesn't like us talkin' business at home."

I believe J.R. discovered his insatiable appetite for women when his eligible bachelor status grew.

Ya I can see it. And when those girls knew they were number 2 or 3 or less at the time to Bobby they'd mosey over to his older brother and find out that's where the real money was. I'm sure JR was a big spender on the ladies and I'm sure he was very attentive in bed to hear such accolades. I'm sure JR learned to charm to get what he wanted. I'm sure they gave it away to Bobby. Now John Ross I'm guessing was the best of both worlds charming and the rugged cowboy. But for him he seemed to want someone to love him. Where Chris could careless if anyone loved him. He just wanted what he wanted, at the time - again putting him closer to JRs character than John Ross was.

Chris, "what'd you call my girl? A hoe. Well yea I guess she is. Next."

John Ross, "what you call my girl? A hoe? Nobody calls the girl that loves me a hoe even if she is!" Pop!!!