Could Neurofibromatosis have killed OldPam and turned Cliff crazy?

Ms Southworth

Ms Southworth

Telly Talk Dream Maker
Back then, we didn't have internet or access to the amount of information that we do today. Medical literature and articles about medical research in general were pretty much only accessible if you were a doctor or worked in the health industry. Maybe this could explain the "mix-up"? :)
 
Kenny Coyote

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
Presea said:
Even though though there was no actual proof of Pam being a biological Barnes, there also wasn't any proof that she wasn't. Rebecca has lied before, and lying about that would have been convenient for her, too. And when we saw Pam after her car crash, she did mention that she had a disease after Cliff left. But it was never specified what this mysterious illness was in the old Dallas. Plus, she looked absolutely nothing like the ugly as sin Hutch McKinney. As for Cliff, I would say that it was his accident that put him in a coma after overdosing that made him weird. The doctor told Rebecca that Cliff might not be the same after he woke up. And after that, Cliff did start to show an obsessive interest in oil companies and being number one. That, and the fact that he got a lot more stupid about things and became more of a comedy character. It was a lot different from how he had been before.
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Pam looking nothing at all like Hutch McKinney means nothing. She didn't bear any family resemblance to Cliff either but that isn't the reason that she's only Cliff's half sister. In fact, Digger Barnes of season one and two doesn't bear any resemblance to Digger Barnes of season three. How can that be? Is the neurofibromatosis responsible for the metamorphosis of Digger's body from season 2 to season 3? I suppose fans of the show are free to overcomplicate things as much as they want but it is just a TV show. The script writers aren't perfect; they're fallible beings. They showed Cliff selling his shares of Wentworth Tool and Die to Katherine but then in a later season he "magically owned the shares again despite Katherine never selling them back to him.

Yes, Rebecca lied at times but to think she would be so cruel to Pam as to perpetuate a lie that would have Pam believe that since she isn't a biological Barnes, she wouldn't have to worry about any babies she might possibly be able to have in the future inheriting neurofibromatosis is so irresponsible and cruel that it's just too out of character for her to tell such a damaging, dangerous lie to her own daughter.

It's a TV show. So when they say Pam is the daughter of Rebecca and Hutch, I go along with it. So she doesn't look anything like Hutch. Pam doesn't look anything like Cliff either but that's the nature of TV shows. I simply suspend my disbelief over how they could even have the same mother when I watch it. Digger told Pam that he wasn't her real father but he always loved her just as if she had been his own daughter. That's the story they go with so I go along with it. I don't demand "proof" as if that's a standard we normally demand from a TV show that dismissed an entire season as one character's dream.
 
Spooky Owl!

Spooky Owl!

Telly Talk Supreme
Kenny Coyote said:
Digger Barnes of season one and two doesn't bear any resemblance to Digger Barnes of season three. How can that be? Is the neurofibromatosis responsible for the metamorphosis of Digger's body from season 2 to season 3?
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Oh, oh, oh --- that's a really good idea! :clap:

Kenny Coyote said:
I suppose fans of the show are free to overcomplicate things as much as they want but it is just a TV
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Writers reverse, change and compicate things themselves all the time. But I tend to get the impression that you consider "overcomplicated" ideas to be the ones you're not crazy about.

And reversing Pam's parentage back to the original concept is actually "de-complicating" things.

Kenny Coyote said:
It's a TV show. So when they say Pam is the daughter of Rebecca and Hutch, I go along with it.
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And if they say Pam isn't the daughter of Rebecca and Hutch, you'd go along with that too, yes?
 
tommie

tommie

Telly Talk Hero
I don't think there has to be an overly complicated reason for Rebecca to lie - she could've had a heated argument with Digger and blurted out, in an act of rage but perhaps not knowing fully for sure herself, that Hutch was Pam's father. Digger then murders Hutch, Rebecca feels guilty and leaves Dallas. Instead of admitting that she doesn't know for sure who the father is, she just goes along with the notion that Pam's father is Hutch. Remember, this was before any advanced DNA testing so it would be hard to determine for sure who Pam's real father was anyway.

Also, from what I recall Rebecca was set to leave Dallas with Hutch, so it would make more sense for her to lie about the paternity.
 
Kenny Coyote

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
tommie said:
I don't think there has to be an overly complicated reason for Rebecca to lie - she could've had a heated argument with Digger and blurted out, in an act of rage but perhaps not knowing fully for sure herself, that Hutch was Pam's father. Digger then murders Hutch, Rebecca feels guilty and leaves Dallas. Instead of admitting that she doesn't know for sure who the father is, she just goes along with the notion that Pam's father is Hutch. Remember, this was before any advanced DNA testing so it would be hard to determine for sure who Pam's real father was anyway.

Also, from what I recall Rebecca was set to leave Dallas with Hutch, so it would make more sense for her to lie about the paternity.
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The issue is do you believe Rebecca cared so little about Pam that she would have perpetuated that lie later on when Rebecca reconciled with Pam and Cliff and Pam told her she wanted to have a baby (on the belief it would be safe to have children since Digger wasn't her father)? It would have been not just irresponsible but absolutely evil for Rebecca to perpetuate the lie that Digger wasn't her father, giving Pam the false sense of security that she couldn't pass neurofibromatosis on to any future babies of hers. Rebecca knew that Pam had been suicidal recently and was very vulnerable still. Do you think it's in character for Rebecca to have so little regard for Pam's well being after they reconciled, that she would have kept perpetuating a lie that would be so dangerous for Pam and any children she might have?
 
tommie

tommie

Telly Talk Hero
Kenny Coyote said:
The issue is do you believe Rebecca cared so little about Pam that she would have perpetuated that lie later on when Rebecca reconciled with Pam and Cliff and Pam told her she wanted to have a baby (on the belief it would be safe to have children since Digger wasn't her father)? It would have been not just irresponsible but absolutely evil for Rebecca to perpetuate the lie that Digger wasn't her father, giving Pam the false sense of security that she couldn't pass neurofibromatosis on to any future babies of hers. Rebecca knew that Pam had been suicidal recently and was very vulnerable still. Do you think it's in character for Rebecca to have so little regard for Pam's well being after they reconciled, that she would have kept perpetuating a lie that would be so dangerous for Pam and any children she might have?
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It wouldn't be "evil" if Rebecca herself believed it. And she could've.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Telly Talk TV Fanatic
As I remember it. Hutch McKinney was fired from Southfork Ranch by Jock Ewing, and Rebecca Barnes was then going to run off with Hutch later that day, taking young Cliff with them. Digger Barnes came home drunk, wondered what was going on, Rebecca said that she was leaving Digger for Hutch and that the unborn baby (Pam) was Hutch's, angering Digger. Hutch then pulled a gun (stolen from Jock) on Digger. Rebecca physically disarmed Hutch, trying to calm down the situation, but Digger picked up the gun and shot Hutch dead in a temper. Digger then buried the body on Southfork land, and became Pam's legal father. Rebecca left Digger when Pam was around 1 year old, presumably by faking her death so that Digger wouldn't track her down. Cliff and Pam were brought up from then on by their Aunt Maggie (Digger's sister) and Digger when he wasn't wandering and drunk.

Who is Pam's father? Valene gave a good speech to her son Bobby in Knots Landing about this. Val said that there were two kinds of father, one who helps to make the baby and one who helps to bring up the baby, that they are usually the same man but not always. Digger is Pam's legal father, and Pam grew up until Digger's death believing Digger was her father. In the flashback, Digger seemed to believe Rebecca's unborn baby to be his until he was told different. Hutch was dead before Pam was born, and there was never a DNA test on who Pam's father was anyway. I also remember they said that Hutch was fired from Southfork soon after Eisenhower was first elected US President (late 1952), which is before DNA's official discovery. Hutch was the bloke that Rebecca was about to run off with, so it fits for Rebecca to say that Hutch is the father of her unborn baby. For all we know, Rebecca didn't know who Pam's father was.

So, for all intents and purposes, Digger is legally Pam's father. If you do a family tree, Digger would be down as Pam's father. I can also understand why Pam would feel a certain emptiness about her background after Digger's deathbed revelation, though.

Changing Pam's biological father was ridiculous. I still say it was the worst mistake of pre-1984 Dallas by some distance. I'm still wondering why they did it, particularly with them having a perfect storyline excuse (neurofibromatosis) for Pam's future storylines of not having a biological baby of her own.
 
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Presea

Presea

Telly Talk Addict
TJames03 said:
Rebecca lied all of the time. Remember when she told Pam that she wasn't even her mother? Rebecca always had "reasons" for her lies to excuse her
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Yeah, and I would say that one of the real reasons was that she was a bitter jerk who always had to try to get her own way.
 
Presea

Presea

Telly Talk Addict
Snarky's Ghost said:
Digger raised Pam and Cliff.

Somebody else raised Katherine.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....
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I could just imagine it: Rebecca: Now, Katherine. If you want to get everything you want in life more easily, then all you need to do is lie a lot. It worked for me! Katherine: Sounds great, mama! I'll give it a try! (Cut to years later when Katherine is living on the run.) Katherine: Why did this happen!? I should have been able to get Bobby and everything else I wanted since I told so many lies! Damn it, mama! You lied to me!
 
Monzo

Monzo

Telly Talk Enthusiast
When Afton returned in season 12, was the topic of neurofibromatosis brought up again? Was Cliff worried, and was it ever mentioned whether Afton was very concerned about Rebecca when she was a baby?

The adult Rebecca / Pamela was expecting twins (but had a miscarriage). Was neurofibromatosis a topic on TNT?

As for Cliff's craziness, perhaps Smiling Frank was constantly giving Cliff drugs that made Cliff dependent on him and changed his personality — or perhaps Cliff couldn't get over the fact that he had killed someone (Johnny Dancer), and the repression of his actions led to personality changes.
 
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