Dallas without Knots Landing

[the-lost-son]

Recently I keep wondering what different direction/development Dallas would have taken without its spin-off Knots Landing.

Especially during the first year, many changes were made to the first outline of the series:
- Sue Ellen's role got expanded significantly (no longer the brunette on the couch)
- Bobby did not die after the mini series (as intended in the first draft)
- JR became unintentionally the shooting star

My point, many changes were made along the way. The producers obviously made the right choices but it's safe to say in hindsight that many decisions were not planned that far in advance (e.g. Let's shoot the sob - resulting in Who shot JR, the end of self-contained episodes or the most notorious example Luc&Ray).
Even the casting in the first 2-3 years was remarkable. They introduced Clayton, Rebecca or Donna only for one or a few episodes and decided only later to bring them back permanently. Laurey Anders mentioned in her latest interview she just got hired for 2 (?) episodes for Mitch's wedding to Lucy, her singing was discovered by Lenny Katzman and therefor suddenly included in the story and she stayed many years.
So I don't think Gary's recast recast to Ted Shackleford was that remarkable.

Due to it's missing DVD releases I have only seen a handful of Knots Landing unfortunately.
But judging by Gary's scenes in Dallas, I think it's a given that it was intended to bring him (and Valene) back and I keep thinking what Dallas would have turned out with him on board. Their daughter was living there, the show was big on families and heirs. Maybe he would have filled Ray's spot on the show after dealing with him for sleeping with Lucy. Somehow I can't see Ray on the show with Gary onboard. Ray slept with SueEllen and Lucy, tried to trick Pam, he was treated as a hired hand.
Gary could have become a nemesis for JR (like it was insinuated once).
And he wouldn't hace relapsed like in KL, because SueEllen had that corner covered.

As a Dallas (sotry KL fans) I would have loved him back any time on a permanent basis, especially in the later years. When I watched the dream season for the 1st time I had the short-lived hope he might stay.
In a show about family, Lucy could have gotten some interesting storylines with him (instead of romances and hanging around with some uncles). His relationship with Miss Ellie would have been marvelous to explore.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I think the possibilities with Gary onboard were endless and I'm sure without Knots Landing, Dallas would have turned out differently with the middle brother onboard right after the first 20-30 episodes.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Some very interesting thoughts.

As I read through and was working out some of the scenarios in my head, I agree with you that the Dallas character whose storylines would be most affected by Gary is Ray. Much of Ray's story in those early Eighties seasons possibly would have gone to Gary instead.

First of all, Gary's love of the land might give him a more hands-on approach at Southfork which could lead to the reverse situation of what we saw. This time it would be Ray rather than Gary who feels he's needed less. This could easily be mitigated by Gary refusing to stay on Southfork itself at first (though I suspect he'd end up there at some point if he stayed on the series long enough).

But in all likelihood, Gary remaining on Dallas would have meant there would be no need for The Fourth Son scenario. It would just be too much to watch JR dealing with two additional brothers within a short space of time. Therefore, the whole dynamic with the "new" brother's low self esteem and JR's bullying resentment towards him would have gone to Gary (that dynamic was already well-established between Gary and JR anyway).

Taking this a step further, there's every chance that, instead of the house in California, Miss Ellie would persuade Jock to give newlyweds Gary and Valene the plot of Southfork land in order to keep him nearby. It's here that Gary would build a home for himself and Val (just as Ray did in the universe where Gary went to Knots).

Ray would no doubt still continue to play a role in the series, but it wouldn't be as a blood relative.

Let's shoot the sob - resulting in Who shot JR

Naturally, the newly-returned Gary and Val would both be prime suspects in JR's shooting. They'd also be very feasible suspects because they wouldn't be established as series regulars at this point. With their histories with JR and the fact that JR is playing every dirty trick in the book to try to get them to leave Dallas, both certainly would have good motive.

 

[Pamela_E]

If Gary and Val were in Dallas the whole axis the show spun would be different.

Would Sue Ellen still drink if Gary did or would Gary not drink anymore.

Would they live at Southfork?

Ray would just be the ranch hand. No Donna.

Lucy would have her parents around. So her character would be different.

 

[DallasFanForever]

Another thing I have to wonder is would Gary, unlike Ray, have decided eventually that he wanted to be in the oil business? And if he did, how would that affect J.R. and Bobby? So much could’ve changed there too.

 

[Pamela_E]

Another thing I have to wonder is would Gary, unlike Ray, have decided eventually that he wanted to be in the oil business? And if he did, how would that affect J.R. and Bobby? So much could’ve changed there too.

It's really hard to gage, the Gary we saw on Knots Landing is probably a very different version to one who lived in Dallas.

Gary was layered differently, so he had Bobby traits, and all sorts going on.

Gary would have been destined to have the ranch and not Bobby. There are so many crossovers with Gary and other characters it's hard to imagine how he would have slotted in.


Maybe, as already mentioned, he would have taken on Ray's role. So living away from the ranch and being the one who couldn't handle the pressure.

But then I can't imagine Valene in Dallas. Maybe she would have ended up as the body in the pool or married to Cliff Barnes.

I could see her novel storyline still working in Dallas. A bit like Donna's book which upset Miss Ellie. So maybe she still would have become a writer.

 

[the-lost-son]

It's really hard to gage, the Gary we saw on Knots Landing is probably a very different version to one who lived in Dallas.

Gary was layered differently, so he had Bobby traits, and all sorts going on.

Gary would have been destined to have the ranch and not Bobby. There are so many crossovers with Gary and other characters it's hard to imagine how he would have slotted in.


Maybe, as already mentioned, he would have taken on Ray's role. So living away from the ranch and being the one who couldn't handle the pressure.

But then I can't imagine Valene in Dallas. Maybe she would have ended up as the body in the pool or married to Cliff Barnes.

I could see her novel storyline still working in Dallas. A bit like Donna's book which upset Miss Ellie. So maybe she still would have become a writer.

It was always great when Jock was put middle between Bobby and JR and when Miss Ellie put him under pressure to make "it work" or "keep Bobby from leaving,"
This could have easily worked for Gary as well. When JR or Bobby were out of Ewing Oil (by their own or Jock's decision) Gary could have been asked to watch the store for the family.

The scenarios are endless. Even when JR was shot, Gary & Bobby running Ewing Oil, JR manipulating in the background to sow dissent.

Before the show got glamored up, land deals played a bigger role. Takapa would probably a great storyline to put Muss Ellie against Jock, now with Gary maybe working next to Jock. They had issues to be worked out anyhow.

Sometimes when you watch a movie/series, you have a feeling that a character might not last that long (Julie Grey). I had that feeling with Ray during the mini and the 1st series. It was one dimensional and party negative (being in cahoot with JR, sleeping with Lucy and hiding it from Jock). I think the producers tried some things and watched if it was working. I don't know what to think of his one night stand with Sue Ellen (which was forgotten the next episode).

I have the feeling without the fourth son scenario Ray would have been written out at some point.

 

[Karin Schill]

It's a mind boggling concept. What would Dallas have been like if Gary and Valene had stayed on in Dallas...
I think a lot of what you have said would have been true. There might not have been a need for a fourth son if the three sons were all living at Southfork and it does feel like Gary and Ray were a bit alike with their love of the land. But at the same time imagine if Gary had stayed in Dallas and Ray would have been revealed as Jock's son. Maybe Gary would have been the first to welcome him since he was also an outsider?

Or maybe Gary and Ray would be working on the ranch together and keep butting heads as they disagree with everything?
What if Gary would have just sacked Ray and he is revealed as Jock's son and Jock put him back in power?

Somehow I think Gary would have worked on the ranch and not in Ewing Oil because Val never had any interest in the business and it was Abby who pushed Gary into becoming the business man he was on Knots Landing.

I think Val would still have been an author. But I can't see her with Cliff Barnes. Gary and Val were meant to be togehter. Although they were made more interesting when they were kept apart with Ben and Abby.

Lucy would have been different with her parents around too. But I am not sure exactly how. I think she would have been closest to Val. If Gary finds out about ray and Lucy it would be another reason why Gary and Ray wouldn't get along.

I think @the-lost-son really needs to watch Knots Landing. It's such an awesome show and I wouldn't want to miss out on any of it. I think it's a blessing really that we got two shows instead of one.

So no moving Gary and Val back to Dallas would not have been as good as what we got on KL. But what I would have loved to see is for Lucy & Mitch to have moved to Knots Landing instead of Atlanta after their second wedding. I think Lucy had sort of run her course on Dallas then and would have had more storyline potential with her parents, siblings, step-siblings and other grandma than what we saw when she returned to Dallas only to share most of her scenes with Cally. I am sure the KL writers could have found more interesting things for her to do.

 

[the-lost-son]

I think @the-lost-son really needs to watch Knots Landing. It's such an awesome show and I wouldn't want to miss out on any of it.

You are more than right on that.
If anyone got a suggestion how to obtain the full series, I'd appreciate any help.

I found some sites which offer bootleg copies, but non of them ships out of the US/Canada which does not help me.

I know that the first two seasons are officially released, but I don't start with series if not the whole series is available at some point at least. I don't want to get hooked to be left hanging.

 

[Karin Schill]

I think you should get the first two seasons on DVD. They are well worth a watch.
At that point the episodes are pretty much stand alone episodes so you won't get left hanging that much either.

Then as for later seasons, I know some posters on here have watched them online a few years ago.

 

[Crimson]

I've never seen a single episode of KNOTS, so Gary and Val have always been shadowy strangers to me. First time around, I didn't start watching until after the Jock years, so I was more familiar with Gary and Val from the Laura van Wormer book than the series.

It's an interesting "What if ...?" to ponder, Gary and Val remaining with DALLAS.

I think the most immediate change is that poor, underused Lucy would have had more to do with her parents to interact with in various capacities; her stories needn't have been tied to mostly sadsack doomed romances.

Would Gary's presence have avoided Ray being made Jock's son? Sure there's some overlap between roles Gary and Ray could have filled; but the casting of tall, silver-haired Steve Kannaly as a ranch hand Jock took in as a youth is such an obvious "Of course! It's his son!" moment that the writers would likely have landed on it anyway.

The tantalizing possibilities aside, it's probably for the best. DALLAS worked best as a conflict for Ewing Oil; Gary would have either cluttered that up, or been resigned to side storylines that we'd now be complaining were boring.

 

[Mustard]

Gary wouldn't be interested in oil fights, or being a rival to J.R. He's not Bobby. The first 3 seasons of Knots Landing, a lot of the show is around the Cul-de-sac (Seaview Circle) and the nearby area, focusing on the lives of the people in 4 families (Ewings, Fairgates, Averys and Wards), while Gary doesn't have that much money and works at Knots Landing Motors with owner and mechanic Sid Fairgate, before then going into business with Sid's sister and Gary's future wife, Abby. Season 4 of Knots Landing is when Gary comes into the money left to him in his father's estate, and the business plans in the show start getting richer, although seldom to Dallas levels, until near the end when you have international gangsters involved.

Gary and Valene would never have grown as people in Dallas the way they did in Los Angeles. Even during those long years of Knots Landing when they weren't together as a couple (Seasons 4-11), they always teased a reunion which took years, and they were becoming better characters. I also believe their love story is even better than Bobby and Pam's, which speaks volumes, because Bobby and Pam were excellent together.

I firmly believe you have to see all of Knots Landing to get the full story of the Ewings. And unlike Bobby and Pam, Gary and Val do get a happy ending.

 

[stevew]

If Gary and Val were in Dallas the whole axis the show spun would be different.

Would Sue Ellen still drink if Gary did or would Gary not drink anymore.

Would they live at Southfork?

Ray would just be the ranch hand. No Donna.

Lucy would have her parents around. So her character would be different.

Sure Sue Ellen would drink and maybe her and Gary would commiserate or more.

Of course they'd live at South Fork - maybe at first in their own house on the property, but in time the fight would be Miss Ellie wanting to leave the house and ranch (and all that oil) to Gary.

Sure we could still see Donna and Donna and Ray could get married, just not family. Maybe more friends with Gary like he become with Bobby.

I think yes Lucy would be different, maybe tougher, maybe take on her Uncle to protect her father, maybe ratchet up her character.

 

[stevew]

Another thing I have to wonder is would Gary, unlike Ray, have decided eventually that he wanted to be in the oil business? And if he did, how would that affect J.R. and Bobby? So much could’ve changed there too.

Jock dies and Miss Ellie turns over South Fork to Gary and when Gary wants to drill for oil to use the money to buy more and more land to protect their way of life, he promises to do it in an ethical way and set up a foundation and Miss Ellie agrees. JR is pissed! And Gary ends up making more money than either Bobby or JR in the competition, all thanks to momma.

 

[lbf522]

Steven Kanaly was leaving the show hence them making Ray Jock's son. Gary and Valene being on Dallas might have been interesting to see.