Decline of Dallas in the UK

[Grangehill1]

It was a big gap, but the main disruption from the bidding war actually took place some time before Swan Song. Dallas was pulled off the air for months mid-Season Seven after Jenna was found with the smoking gun and Naldo's body.

I do agree that the big gaps didn't help, particularly in terms of spoilers. Pictures of Bobby's death were plastered all over the tabloids months before Swan Song aired. As you said, Swan Song was very successful and highly regarded in Britain, but it may have had even more impact if there hadn't been the gap and time for it to be spoilt.

As I remember, Dallas was still on many people's tongues even the following year when the series was back on regularly. There was much speculation after Patrick Duffy turned up in the shower (I seem to recall the "long lost evil twin" theory prevailed). But the dream reveal at the start of the following season alienated a number of people I knew who'd watched up to that point who just felt it was too silly for words.

Falling behind in the scheduling didn't help, but the audience loyalty was probably tested more by the content of the series itself.

I hadn’t mentioned the gap in season 8 in the UK. It wasn’t months, it was 7 weeks and during those 7 weeks EE debuted.
The MAIN disruption of the ITV/BBC bidding war was that the BBC had to hold back Transmission of season 9 which created a huge gap and one could argue hurt the show with audiences more interested in grounded drama

 

[Spells & Karma]

It wasn’t months, it was 7 weeks and during those 7 weeks EE debuted.

Yes, you're right. Technically it was a week or so short of being months. It felt longer than that at the time because of the uncertainty, with no definite date for a return while it went on.

The MAIN disruption of the ITV/BBC bidding war was that the BBC had to hold back Transmission of season 9

It was certainly the longest, but for me it felt less noticeable or problematic than the mid-season one. I was accustomed to waiting for many months for a new season, but for a serial to be taken off the air without notice mid-season flew in the face of nature for me and that's the one that had the bigger, capital-lettered impact on me.

one could argue hurt the show with audiences more interested in grounded drama

I'd say U.S. soap mania hit a natural peak in the mid-Eighties after which interest simply waned as they aged and became less and less original. However, they were still big news in 1985. And the popularity of the BBC's own Howards' Way - dubbed "Dallas-on-sea" - which began in September 1985 (ironically, during that big gap between Dallas seasons) suggests that audiences and the BBC were still interested in the glossier stuff on either side of the pond.

Those who wanted grounded drama could - and did - get that back in 1978 when Dallas began with Corrie, Emmerdale Farm and Crossroads. They were two different genres of television that happily coexisted all the way through to 1985 and continued to do so afterwards. I don't feel one has a bearing on the other.

 

[Grangehill1]

Yes, you're right. Technically it was a week or so short of being months. It felt longer than that at the time because of the uncertainty, with no definite date for a return while it went on.




It was certainly the longest, but for me it felt less noticeable or problematic than the mid-season one. I was accustomed to waiting for many months for a new season, but for a serial to be taken off the air without notice mid-season flew in the face of nature for me and that's the one that had the bigger, capital-lettered impact on me.





I'd say U.S. soap mania hit a natural peak in the mid-Eighties after which interest simply waned as they aged and became less and less original. However, they were still big news in 1985. And the popularity of the BBC's own Howards' Way - dubbed "Dallas-on-sea" - which began in September 1985 (ironically, during that big gap between Dallas seasons) suggests that audiences and the BBC were still interested in the glossier stuff on either side of the pond.

Those who wanted grounded drama could - and did - get that back in 1978 when Dallas began with Corrie, Emmerdale Farm and Crossroads. They were two different genres of television that happily coexisted all the way through to 1985 and continued to do so afterwards. I don't feel one has a bearing on the other.

I think there was notice that there was going to be a gap and to the casual viewer the mid season break ended on a brilliant cliffhanger with Jenna besides Naldo’s dead body. 7 weeks was nothing to wait for the next episode especially as Dallas was in the news practically every day

I’m talking about the decline in Britain and not the US and emphasizing that it wasn’t comedies that became more popular than Dallas (the US) but more soap operas albeit grounded ones - EE and and Neighbours.

Howards way was successful but never reached the heights of EE and Neighbours.
The enforced gap in the UK because of the BBC/ITV deal was horrendous. We’d just seen Bobby killed and then had to wait nearly a year for the aftermath. And then literally a month after the Family Ewing transmitted we found out in the UK Bobby was coming back which made the rest of season 9 painful to endure until the end.
And in the meantime EE was growing a loyal fan base, becoming the tabloids darling and leading to the biggest episode on Xmas Day 86.
I think I’m the UK at least the ‘majority’ of people would watch Dallas and EE and Neighbours. All soap fans and it was Dallas that wained in popularity out of the three with soap fans.

If season 9 had transmitted in October 85 the audience would have had a mix of EE plus Dallas and then the Bobby shock reveal at the end of the season may have sustained interest

 

[Spells & Karma]

to the casual viewer the mid season break ended on a brilliant cliffhanger with Jenna besides Naldo’s dead body.

This is true. It certainly became more important and significant to my mind because of the hiatus.

7 weeks was nothing to wait for the next episode especially as Dallas was in the news practically every day

But it felt more interminable to me because of the uncertainty that surrounded the break. We didn't know when it would be back. I might be misremembering but I recall the announcement over the credits after Naldo's shooting just saying Dallas would be back later in the year.

I'd say U.S. soap mania hit a natural peak in the mid-Eighties after which interest simply waned

I’m talking about the decline in Britain and not the US

To clarify, so am I. I was talking about the British interest in U.S. soaps. We were quite late getting Dynasty, so our interest was still comparatively fresh in 1985 (plus in 1986 we got The Colbys in prime time and the return of Knots in daytime). The bloom was off the rose pretty quickly after that, but I suspect this was as much to do with the content of the late-Eighties U.S. soaps as it was the scheduling.

Howards way was successful but never reached the heights of EE and Neighbours.

Yes, but a glossy drama similar in style to American nighttime soaps arriving months after EastEnders (and on the same channel that aired EE, Neighbours and Dallas) showed there was an appetite for more than just grounded drama, as popular as the latter were proving. HW went on to run for 6 series and continued to enjoy a prime time slot and I suspect quite solid ratings.

I think I’m the UK at least the ‘majority’ of people would watch Dallas and EE and Neighbours. All soap fans and it was Dallas that wained in popularity out of the three with soap fans.

Agreed, but I don't know that Dallas's popularity would have been much slower to wane were there no EastEnders. Likewise, I don't feel that Neighbours would have been any less popular if Dallas hadn't had the break.

There was a good degree of circumstance surrounding Neighbours becoming a phenomenon, and it did come as the U.S. soaps were becoming stale, so I get what you're saying about tastes changing.

 

[Rove]

and it did come as the U.S. soaps were becoming stale

I'm curious why the producers of Dallas couldn't see what the audience was seeing. I'm sure the international success of Dallas surprised everyone from CBS to Lorimar. Once they realised they had an international hit on their hands someone should have studied why is this working and kept their foot on the throttle.

Instead as the seasons of Dallas progressed the plots became child-like and the character of JR was becoming more of a buffoon rather than someone to be feared...and that was the beauty of watching JR in the early years...his constant wheeling and dealing.

So if the ratings for Dallas began to subside someone higher up the food chain should have pulled the Executive Producer in and asked, "What the hell is happening over there?" Instead the series which once had the world sitting on their edge of their lounges was allowed to slip into weak stories, with even weaker actors.

 

[Mustard]

It’s well known that the rebirths of comedy programmes helped with the fall in popularity of night time soaps in the US. In the UK it was another matter.

EastEnders launched in Feb 1985 at a time when Dallas was riding high in popularity. So what happened?

Well because of Thames TV trying to poach Dallas the BBC ended up in a situation where they had to hold back season 9 for a considerable length of time. So Swansong transmitted in July 85 but the Family Ewing transmitted in a March 86! By that point in the U.K. audiences were clearly more swept away with Den and Angus’s antics in EE.
Then when the dream resolution aired in the U.K. in October 86 just 4 days later Neighbours launched.
I think UK audiences were more ‘interested’ in EastEnders at this point and then soon to be interested in neighbours.

I remember Christmas Eve 86 Larry and a Linda were on Wogan but nobody really cared any more as we were all more excited about the next day and Den divorcing Angie.

I wonder if there handnt been that enforced gap in the U.K. between seasons 8 and 9 whether things would have turned out differently over here

What happened in February-March 1985 was basically a feud between Michael Grade (then at the BBC) and Bryan Cowgill (at Thames), and the BBC throwing a fit when Thames outbid them for the rights. The BBC pulled Season 8 DVD from TV screens for 7 weeks (from 6 February to 27 March 1985) during this controversy. The episode that aired on 6 February 1985 was the one that ended on a cliffhanger with Renaldo dead and Jenna arrested.

All the legalities of Thames eventually being compelled to sell the rights to Season 9 DVD to the BBC, at a financial loss, took many months.

Dallas in the UK basically broadcast Seasons 9 and 10 (DVD) back to back to get everything back on track. Dallas stayed prime time in the UK until the end of Season 13 DVD, with J.R. in the sanatarium with Jessica, which aired at the time of the 1990 FIFA World Cup. The last season of the original series of Dallas, i.e. Season 14 DVD, was broadcast on Sunday afternoons in the UK and was badly beaten in the ratings by the snooker amongst other things.

 

[Grangehill1]

What happened in February-March 1985 was basically a feud between Michael Grade (then at the BBC) and Bryan Cowgill (at Thames), and the BBC throwing a fit when Thames outbid them for the rights. The BBC pulled Season 8 DVD from TV screens for 7 weeks (from 6 February to 27 March 1985) during this controversy. The episode that aired on 6 February 1985 was the one that ended on a cliffhanger with Renaldo dead and Jenna arrested.

All the legalities of Thames eventually being compelled to sell the rights to Season 9 DVD to the BBC, at a financial loss, took many months.

Dallas in the UK basically broadcast Seasons 9 and 10 (DVD) back to back to get everything back on track. Dallas stayed prime time in the UK until the end of Season 13 DVD, with J.R. in the sanatarium with Jessica, which aired at the time of the 1990 FIFA World Cup. The last season of the original series of Dallas, i.e. Season 14 DVD, was broadcast on Sunday afternoons in the UK and was badly beaten in the ratings by the snooker amongst other things.

It’s like AI has just summarised the entire thread

 

[Piggyrella Sanderson]

I'm curious why the producers of Dallas couldn't see what the audience was seeing. I'm sure the international success of Dallas surprised everyone from CBS to Lorimar. Once they realised they had an international hit on their hands someone should have studied why is this working and kept their foot on the throttle.

Instead as the seasons of Dallas progressed the plots became child-like and the character of JR was becoming more of a buffoon rather than someone to be feared...and that was the beauty of watching JR in the early years...his constant wheeling and dealing.

So if the ratings for Dallas began to subside someone higher up the food chain should have pulled the Executive Producer in and asked, "What the hell is happening over there?" Instead the series which once had the world sitting on their edge of their lounges was allowed to slip into weak stories, with even weaker actors.

I think that didn´t happen because lots of money were coming in from the whole world (minus Japan, who said "fukuoka to you!). The commercialization of the show was done slowly but steadily. Funnily enough, Spain showed the first season one year after "Dallas" was born, and other European countries quickly added to their schedule too, but many other countries got it at mid, late-80s or early 90s.

Therefore it kept making money for Lorimar and CBS. I´d say that it was Telepictures who "killed the TV star" (paraphrasing the song). They saved money with the trashy editing system and by axing some of the most valuable stars from their best supersoaps, and joined the sitcom trend very quickly, especially in the 90s. Maybe it was Larry who was tired of the show at that time? I wish someone could shed some light into this because I find it fascinating...

Here´s Larry on the cover of our TV Guide, when the show
was reprised in 1981 after a brief hiatus, and aired up til the shooting.​

 

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

I wasn’t around in 1985, but I’ll add my two cents anyway

Given how popular EE was and more specifically Den & Angie were throughout 1985 and 1986, and with the long gap between seasons of Dallas I would say Dallas’s popularity was somewhat dented by EE

There seemed to be some interest in 1986 but by then the show was beginning to die a slow and painful death, plus by 1987 you had Neighbours which was very popular, Australian imports replaced the American ones in the British psyche.

In terms of soaps American soaps didn’t really take off in Britain again until the noughties when The OC and Desperate Housewives premiered in 2003 and 2004 respectively, I know BH90210 was popular in the early 90s until around 1994 but never to the heights that Dallas, Dynasty & The Colby’s achieved in the 80s nor the levels of popularity the OC and Desperate Housewives got in the 00s, Desperate Housewives was in particular huge from 2004 to 2008, Teri Hatcher, Marcia Cross and Eva Longoria became household names here.

American sitcoms however became quite big in the 90s with Friends and Frasier being popular still to this day.

As for Dallas, by the late 80s, British audiences wanted something more grounded and yet also something sunnier, without the wealth, EastEnders offered the realism and Neighbours offered the sunshine, Dallas offered neither so was left behind in a earlier part of the decade.

 

[Grangehill1]

Absolutely right. This was exactly how it was at the time

 

[alexpaige]

Interesting to read about the hiatus during season 8... sounds as though the timing of Bobby's return in the shower just after season 8 had premiered in the UK really had a bad affect on viewership (understandably).

In Australia, Dallas was very popular right up until season 10 (post dream season) ... when it was pulled from its regular time slot 22 episodes in to the season. After that it was never shown regularly again (an attempt to relaunch it in primetime with season 13 failed after about 4 episodes). Dallas' regular timeslot here in 1987 was taken by LA Law which was quickly becoming a big hit.

I do think for Aussie viewers it was the return of Bobby which was the jump the shark moment for the show.

Very surprised to read that Neighbours seemed to supplant Dallas in popularity in the UK fairly swiftly upon its launch. I can see no similarity to speak of between the shows and find it hard to imagine there would be any crossover in audience. While they are nominally both 'soap operas' the format and approach is as different as chalk and cheese. And as an Aussie, Neighbours seems such a fantasy divorced from any semblance of real Australian life that I've always found it difficult to understand its appeal (and that's even speaking as someone who has worked on it!)

 

[Rove]

As for Dallas, by the late 80s, British audiences wanted something more grounded and yet also something sunnier, without the wealth

Could it be argued then that Dynasty had a detrimental effect on Dallas rather than Eastenders or Neighbours? When I revisit Dallas I find it grounded in reality despite the Ewing family being wealthy. Back then I was in awe of Southfork, believing it was a mansion when in reality it isn't. I also think the writers struck a good balance between Southfork and Ewing Oil. I loved the location shooting both on and around Southfork Ranch. I could feel the Texas sun and if you listen closely you can hear distant thunderstorms.

Meanwhile over at Denver the Carrington family began to live like hermits; spending all morning in hair and make-up, what Nolan Miller outfit to wear just to visit Krystal Carrington at the mansion to bitch slap her with words. Accidentally or on purpose Dynasty became car-crash television with its over-the-top fashion and stories. Dallas quickly changed course to keep up with Dynasty when it shouldn't have and that's when I believe Dallas lost favour with the audience...with additional support from "jump the shark" moments.

 

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

Could it be argued then that Dynasty had a detrimental effect on Dallas rather than Eastenders or Neighbours? When I revisit Dallas I find it grounded in reality despite the Ewing family being wealthy. Back then I was in awe of Southfork, believing it was a mansion when in reality it isn't. I also think the writers struck a good balance between Southfork and Ewing Oil. I loved the location shooting both on and around Southfork Ranch. I could feel the Texas sun and if you listen closely you can hear distant thunderstorms.

Meanwhile over at Denver the Carrington family began to live like hermits; spending all morning in hair and make-up, what Nolan Miller outfit to wear just to visit Krystal Carrington at the mansion to bitch slap her with words. Accidentally or on purpose Dynasty became car-crash television with its over-the-top fashion and stories. Dallas quickly changed course to keep up with Dynasty when it shouldn't have and that's when I believe Dallas lost favour with the audience...with additional support from "jump the shark" moments.

British audiences were just as sick of Dynasty as they were of Dallas by the late 80s, in fact I’d argue Dynasty going more outlandish was what made British audiences turn off from the US imports faster, it’s true that from 1984 to 86 Dallas did seem to impersonate Dynasty, and it really didn’t need to, its first seven seasons (DVD count) was in fact the golden age of Dallas, if Dallas had ran only from 1978-1984 it would be remembered as a high end television drama, the mid 80s was the beginning of the end of Dallas on exacerbated by Bobby’s return from
The dead/Pam’s fiery exit in the 1986-87 season.

 

[Barbara On A Broomstick]

People in UK switched off from Dallas when Bobby returned in the shower and said Good Morning

Thats when a lot of people I know who watched it (but werent addicted to it) switched off as they felt rather cheated that one whole season was a dream

 

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

In the spring of 1987

Terry Wogan has Susan Howard, Gordon Thomson, Emma Samms and Christopher Cazenove on his show.

They were discussing the Dream resolution and Fallon being taken off by aliens, and Wogan said “Don’t you think it’s all getting a bit silly now?”

Then Susan Howard made the comical error in saying it was Bobby’s dream and Gordon Thomson reminded her it was Pam’s dream to much hilarity

The point is that Britain’s love affair with American imported prime time soaps was over by 1987.

 

[Rove]

People in UK switched off from Dallas when Bobby returned in the shower and said Good Morning

Was it right at the end of that season cliff-hanger when Bobby said, "Good morning," the audience switched off or the following season when it was explained Pam had a bad dream? I think from memory it was the reveal the following season when my eyes rolled in the back of my head and thought, "Really?"

It was a miserable way to bring back Bobby and a destructive turn off for viewers.

 

[Guzzler’s Frightening Hair]

In the spring of 1987

Terry Wogan has Susan Howard, Gordon Thomson, Emma Samms and Christopher Cazenove on his show.

They were discussing the Dream resolution and Fallon being taken off by aliens, and Wogan said “Don’t you think it’s all getting a bit silly now?”

Then Susan Howard made the comical error in saying it was Bobby’s dream and Gordon Thomson reminded her it was Pam’s dream to much hilarity

The point is that Britain’s love affair with American imported prime time soaps was over by 1987.

aw man, is that “Ray and Donna” Tommie’s youtube video?

 

[Spooky Owl!]

aw man, is that “Ray and Donna” Tommie’s youtube video?

Where is he?? @tommie's been gone since June!

 

[Monzo]

Where is he?? @tommie's been gone since June!

I think, or rather hope, that Tommie has entered the workforce. Didn't he get his master's degree shortly before he stopped posting? I'm fairly certain that Tommie, under his standard username and real name "tommie," was also active in another forum that I visit regularly, one that mainly deals with music and charts. Tommie stopped posting there after almost 15 years, even though he was active here a bit longer. I simply hope that his job is keeping him so busy that he no longer has time for forums.

Does anyone know how Falcon Crest was broadcast in the UK? Did the series also have a prime-time slot?

 

[Spooky Owl!]

People in UK switched off from Dallas when Bobby returned in the shower and said Good Morning

Demographics in the States showed the same things: when Bobby stepped out of the shower and pronounced the previous season one long dream, the audience wandered away and flipped over to something else.

Supposedly, the DALLAS audience here dropped by 10% right away, and the show dropped from Number 6 to Number 11 for the season, but in terms of actual audience head count, it remained the same between those two seasons. (When the ratings should have gone up a little bit, had they not used the dream scenario to link the two seasons).