"Good" character who wasn't so good.

Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme
LV
8
 
Awards
21
Jeff was an ass (or "arse") to anybody who lacked status. But DYNASTY didn't address such things.
(
 

lbf522

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
LV
0
 
Awards
5
On The Colbys, there was an element of "poor Jason and Frankie", star-crossed lovers kept apart by circumstance and the machinations of their scheming spouses, that I think we were supposed to buy into when in fact, "superbitch" Sable was the victim in the whole scenario.
Yes that was hard to take. We, the viewers, were suppose to root for these two awful persons who betrayed those who loved them. Jason beds his brother's wife, as that brother is serving his country in the Korean War, who was also his wife's sister. And Frankie who was just as bad if not worst. She sleeps with her sister's husband, who is also her husband's brother again while he is serving his country in war, and deserted her son Jeff so she could travel Europe with no responsibilities.

Sable, Jeff, and Phillip were the victims here. It was impossible not to have sympathy for these three and condemn Jason and Frankie.

On soaps (daytime and primetime) and sitcoms, I hate it when they make a character sanctimonious and self-righteous to the point they are sickning to watch.

No offense to Jason Priestley, but when the left 90210, I was not unhappy since they had made his character Brandon Walsh hypocritical, sanctimonious and self-righteous to the point a point that when he left, that was a good thing. I have seen other shows that have done that as well. Like Tamera on Sister, Sister and Elizabeth Wakefield on Sweet Valley High.
 

DallasFanForever

Telly Talk Supreme
LV
5
 
Awards
17
I guess I would say Bobby Ewing. There’s no question he had high morals but the character wasn’t above breaking the rules to get what he wanted. Buying Christopher, fudging the birth certificate, setting up Hicks, setting up Driscoll, buying off Naldo’s killer to get a confession, etc, he did seem to have the best intentions most of the time when doing these things but they are all very questionable.

Personally though, I liked it when Bobby or any other “Good” character broke the rules a little to get what they wanted. I feel it gave the characters more layers and made them more realistic. Very few people are all good and very few people are all bad so it made sense to me when they did this with these characters.
 

colbyco

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
LV
0
 
Awards
5
both Jeff and Francesca were labeled as the goody goody ones - even the actors saw it this way (Gordon once said something like this: "JJ only has to smile because he is the prince") ... but both had dark souls and a lot of victims under their shoes - so this are really mother & son!

*Francesca used their men and changed them when another men just said "hello" ... Jason for Phillip, Jason for Roger, Phillip for Jason ...
*Jeff sleept with Claudia while his wife was pregnant. Had an affair with his wife´s cousin. Divorced her only to sleep with her after he wanted to marry Sammy Jo.
Sleept with Fallon while married to Kirby. Used Nicole & Ashley only to fill his lonely heart when Fallon was "dead" but still only loved her ...
 

lbf522

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
LV
0
 
Awards
5
I guess I would say Bobby Ewing. There’s no question he had high morals but the character wasn’t above breaking the rules to get what he wanted. Buying Christopher, fudging the birth certificate, setting up Hicks, setting up Driscoll, buying off Naldo’s killer to get a confession, etc, he did seem to have the best intentions most of the time when doing these things but they are all very questionable.

Personally though, I liked it when Bobby or any other “Good” character broke the rules a little to get what they wanted. I feel it gave the characters more layers and made them more realistic. Very few people are all good and very few people are all bad so it made sense to me when they did this with these characters.
I did not care for Bobby Ewing myself. He was a bully and a thug whose loyalty was questionable. Your wife kidnaps your brother's son and you want to fight him? Yes Buying Christopher was bad. His moving of Southfork over Cliff was dumb. I mean, JR was right to shut down that oil field.

I have no problem with "good" characters breaking the rules either it does give them dimension but Bobby for me was hard to care fore.
 
Last edited:

colbyco

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
LV
0
 
Awards
5
yeah Bobby was a little bit like Jeff ...labeled by himself and the writers as good guy but also made a lot of bad decisions ....

Chase (FC) also from the house of the good ones later became really awful - the writers attempt to make viewers not missing him too much knowing it will be his last season ...
 

Daniel Avery

Admin
LV
9
 
Awards
24
On The Colbys, there was an element of "poor Jason and Frankie", star-crossed lovers kept apart by circumstance and the machinations of their scheming spouses, that I think we were supposed to buy into when in fact, "superbitch" Sable was the victim in the whole scenario.
One aspect of this story that bugged me for decades is that a similar storyline was set up for Charlton Heston's character in the disaster epic Earthquake. His character was married to Ava Gardner's character but was having an affair with Genevieve Bujold's (much younger) character. It was suggested he only married Gardner because her father was well-connected and would help his son-in-law's career. But because Ava was such a bitch about his sleeping around with a woman half his age, they painted Heston as the poor, put-upon husband who escaped into the arms of Bujold, and Gardner was the "obstruction to their happiness". Which....nah, not so much.

In the film, Gardner was about to drown in a rescue effort, and Heston, despite the strife in their marriage and all the bad blood jumped in to rescue her, resulting in both of them being swept to their deaths. He wasn't supposed to die in the original script; Heston said he requested that ending for his character because he did not want the character to be seen getting a happy ending with Bujold (basically being rewarded for being an adulterer). But in the Colbys scenario, Jason had the women battling over him and not looking like the jerk he should have been portrayed as. I wonder if Heston ever noticed the deja vu aspect of that plot.
 

Willie Oleson

Telly Talk Schemer
LV
9
 
Awards
27
"poor Jason and Frankie", star-crossed lovers kept apart by circumstance and the machinations of their scheming spouses, that I think we were supposed to buy into
True. On the surface, there wasn't much to buy into.
when in fact, "superbitch" Sable was the victim in the whole scenario
Agreed again. On the surface, she was.

Except that THE COLBYS is all about "howevers" and it was Sable's machinations against Jeff and Constance (and in some way even Fallon) that allowed the story to develop the way it did.
The irony being that she got her comeuppance from people she wasn't attacking.
There's some of that in DYNASTY too. I don't think Alexis was being punished for the worst things she's done, but at the same time she was blamed for everything else, justified or not.
 

CeeCee72

Telly Talk Star
LV
1
 
Awards
6
I agree with all that has been said about Bobby, and I'll add Ray to the mix.

He slept with Lucy and Sue Ellen (granted he didn't know he was a Ewing but still disrespectful to his employers). He cheated on both Jenna and Donna. And he wasn't adverse to getting involved in JR or Jock's schemes if if benefited him.
 

Brian Kinney

Telly Talk Addict
LV
0
 
Awards
6
And Frankie who was just as bad if not worst. She sleeps with her sister's husband, who is also her husband's brother again while he is serving his country in war, and deserted her son Jeff so she could travel Europe with no responsibilities.

Sable, Jeff, and Phillip were the victims here. It was impossible not to have sympathy for these three and condemn Jason and Frankie.
There was also a Lord Langdon who was married to Frankie. I don't recall how it ended but the guy seemed decent and was played by David Hedison (Felix Leiter in two James Bond films). I think the Lord was also a victim of Jason and Frankie.

Chase (FC) also from the house of the good ones later became really awful - the writers attempt to make viewers not missing him too much knowing it will be his last season ...

But at least with Chase it was different because he never was written too much as a good guy. Not as one-dimensional as Jeff or Bobby.
 
Last edited:

CeeCee72

Telly Talk Star
LV
1
 
Awards
6
There was also a Lord Langdon who was married to Frankie. I don't recall how it ended but the guy seemed decent and was played by David Hedison (Felix Leiter in two James Bond films). I think the Lord was also a victim of Jason and Frankie.



But at least with Chase it was different because he never was written too much as a good guy. Not as one-dimensional as Jeff or Bobby.
Agree about Chase. He always had a dark side.

I'll get killed for this, but what about Jock Ewing? He was an AWFUL father, pitting his sons against each other, often for only his own amusement. He was also a sexist pig.
 

lbf522

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
LV
0
 
Awards
5
Agree about Chase. He always had a dark side.

I'll get killed for this, but what about Jock Ewing? He was an AWFUL father, pitting his sons against each other, often for only his own amusement. He was also a sexist pig.
You are correct. Jock and Ellie were awful parents with their not only playing favorites among their sons but were open about it. Imagine if they had a daughter.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

Telly Talk Star
LV
0
 
Awards
8
You are correct. Jock and Ellie were awful parents with their not only playing favorites among their sons but were open about it. Imagine if they had a daughter.
I tend to agree. I found it to be hypocritical when Miss Ellie would call out JR, when she was enjoying the wealth and status that
Ewing Oil gave her, not to mention that it was Jock who taught JR how to conduct the oil business
 

colbyco

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
LV
0
 
Awards
5
There was also a Lord Langdon who was married to Frankie. I don't recall how it ended but the guy seemed decent and was played by David Hedison (Felix Leiter in two James Bond films). I think the Lord was also a victim of Jason and Frankie.



But at least with Chase it was different because he never was written too much as a good guy. Not as one-dimensional as Jeff or Bobby.
- he wasn´t written so one-dimensional .... but he was the good guy - wasn´t he? I saw it this way ... otherwise there were just bad people (except Maggie)
my god the whole valley was bad, criminal or crazy

Agree about Chase. He always had a dark side.

I'll get killed for this, but what about Jock Ewing? He was an AWFUL father, pitting his sons against each other, often for only his own amusement. He was also a sexist pig.
- Jock Ewing was never labeled as a good guy or was he?
I never liked him ...
 
Top