Goodbye to Jock!

[Snarky Oracle!]

Ebsen was 80 years old by then.... No go....

I don't like recasting core characters either, but Davis was already 79 when he died.

Jaime's problem was the actor. Too young and her mouth moved weird. When JR pissed her off, she squinted her eyes and her mouth did weird stuff. For a tough rough neck oil worker, she sure allowed JR to push her to the brink of tears.

For some reason, Jenilee Harrison and Jamie just never bothered me. A lot of people seem to dislike her, but I never really understood the problem.

 

[Toni]

Re-casting Jock with Ebsen (or anyone else) would have been like what they did when re-cast Digger with Keenan Wynn: no matter how good both actors are, they just projected a different image (Jock looked classic Western hero, Ebsen was more of a character actor, like Wynn). Funnily enough, I think both Ebsen and Wynn danced and sang in a few movies! Not a real Texan, I tell ya! In that sense, I would have accepted Steve Forrest later on, if he had just looked a little older (but he didn´t, white hair or not).

Anyway, Ebsen´s Mama had Jock´s spirit in her:

Also, "power is something you take!!"​

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

Re-casting Jock with Ebsen (or anyone else) would have been like what they did when re-cast Digger with Keenan Wynn: no matter how good both actors are, they just projected a different image (Jock looked classic Western hero, Ebsen was more of a character actor, like Wynn). Funnily enough, I think both Ebsen and Wynn danced and sang in a few movies! Not a real Texan, I tell ya! In that sense, I would have accepted Steve Forrest later on, if he had just looked a little older (but he didn´t, white hair or not).

Anyway, Ebsen´s Mama had Jock´s spirit in her:

View attachment 58565

Also, "power is something you take!!"​

Forrest Tucker, on the other hand, was absolutely a proto-Jock in the Columbo episode Blueprint For Murder, and amazingly was almost 10 years younger than Jim Davis, though he seems almost as old in that early 70s episode as Jock in 1978:

Big Jock wouldn’t have gone down so easy, of course.

At the beginning of the episode there were a couple of scenes that easily could have been a slightly younger Jock who hadn’t retired and mellowed out as we saw him on DALLAS. The little sighs and grunts and mannerisms at the beginning of the clip above are 100% Jock, and the Cadillac is pretty much the same car as Jock’s Lincoln. (not buying the Benny Hill music, though)

alas, though it looks like he was active well into the 80s, Tucker died not long into the Season 10 timeframe, so they would have been right back to square one..

 

[Jock's Ghost]

Have zero issues with recasting anyone as LONG as the character is needed. The Waltons didn't seem to thrive with fake John Boy, but I dont watch the series enough to gage it.
DALLAS had done the recast many times when a guest spot turns into a permenent and the actors says no or is busy- Like with Morgan Fairchild who stupidly said no. And 1st Gary... Jock would have been no different, just find an actor with the same build. Tucker would have been no good either as he died in 1986- same year as Donna Reed
Its better to lose the actor than the entire storyline. Jocks' demise didn't hurt the series like Bobby (only because of the idiocy return).

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

People just don't seem to get it: the casting is the character (as Hitchcock said) and so recasting core characters tends to be disastrous. Producers who don't understand this usually wind up ruining their own shows.

Fringe characters can sometimes be recast if the audience doesn't know them very well yet.

Have zero issues with recasting anyone as LONG as the character is needed. The Waltons didn't seem to thrive with fake John Boy, but I don't watch the series enough to gauge it.
DALLAS had done the recast many times when a guest spot turns into a permanent and the actors says no or is busy- Like with Morgan Fairchild who stupidly said no. And 1st Gary... Jock would have been no different, just find an actor with the same build. Tucker would have been no good either as he died in 1986- same year as Donna Reed
It's better to lose the actor than the entire storyline. Jocks' demise didn't hurt the series like Bobby (only because of the idiocy return).

You seem to be making points for every side of the argument!

 

[Seaviewer]

People just don't seem to get it: the casting is the character (as Hitchcock said) and so recasting core characters tends to be disastrous. Producers who don't understand this usually wind up ruining their own shows.

I don't think anyone is disputing your general points against recasting. But I think that some of us believe that if a character is important enough - and opinions may well vary on which ones they are - it should be done anyway.

I still think recasting Miss Ellie was the right decision - bringing in a previously unknown aunt would not have worked - and Donna Reed was a popular choice at the time. I think the mistake was Miss Reed's choice to base her on the oil baron wives she knew, like a queen on a throne, instead of a rancher with dirt under her fingernails and a shotgun in her closet.

 

[Jock's Ghost]

I don't think anyone is disputing your general points against recasting. But I think that some of us believe that if a character is important enough - and opinions may well vary on which ones they are - it should be done anyway.

I still think recasting Miss Ellie was the right decision - bringing in a previously unknown aunt would not have worked - and Donna Reed was a popular choice at the time. I think the mistake was Miss Reed's choice to base her on the oil baron wives she knew, like a queen on a throne, instead of a rancher with dirt under her fingernails and a shotgun in her closet.

A Southworth cousin could have just left if she didn't work out. Recast of Ellie was just greed and stupidity thanks to Howard Katzman, the hack.
JOCK should have been recast. There was a long absence without him, a replacement would have worked. Same for Pam- in this case- definitely needed a recast, Margret Michaels- better to lose an actor than the storyline, but idiot Katzman did it again- lost the storyline into one of the dumbest next to Bobbys return.

 

[lbf522]

People just don't seem to get it: the casting is the character (as Hitchcock said) and so recasting core characters tends to be disastrous. Producers who don't understand this usually wind up ruining their own shows.

Fringe characters can sometimes be recast if the audience doesn't know them very well yet.



You seem to be making points for every side of the argument!

Are you referring to the two Darrins in Betwitched. I agree recasting is risky. Daytime soaps do it often so I am used it recasts myself. Recasting Jock with an established actor like James Arness maybe could have worked.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Are you referring to the two Darrins in Betwitched. I agree recasting is risky. Daytime soaps do it often so I am used it recasts myself. Recasting Jock with an established actor like James Arness maybe could have worked.

Daytime soaps are different -- the suspension of disbelief is far greater. So one actress may play Countess Veronica Heptenshtein for 30 years, die or retire, and they brining in another actress a few months later for the same role. Nobody blinks an eye.

35mm primetime shows are different. They have to go further to convince us, and recasting major roles just rarely works.

The reason Steve Forrest's role succeeded was because no one really knew for sure whether was Jock or not. The ambivalence was important.

And someone said, "Donna Reed was a popular choice at the time," when she was brought in to replace Ellie in 1984. Which is ridiculous: some people accepted her, a few may have loved it, but the vast majority or the reaction was decidedly negative. For obvious reasons.


"Take me home to the High Chapparal, J.R., where I can have a nice, thick slice of Ponderosa steak..!"

"Ohhhhh, the precious dear... Little Ricky seems so sleepy!!"

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Have zero issues with recasting anyone as LONG as the character is needed. The Waltons didn't seem to thrive with fake John Boy, but I dont watch the series enough to gage it.
DALLAS had done the recast many times when a guest spot turns into a permenent and the actors says no or is busy- Like with Morgan Fairchild who stupidly said no. And 1st Gary... Jock would have been no different, just find an actor with the same build. Tucker would have been no good either as he died in 1986- same year as Donna Reed
Its better to lose the actor than the entire storyline. Jocks' demise didn't hurt the series like Bobby (only because of the idiocy return).

Yes, sometimes a certain character is need to maintain the show's narrative consistency, and a recast is necessary.
The choice that a show has to not recast, and the entire dynamics of the show change it into something else that is not as good and leads to a quick cancellation,
or recast and at least the show has a chance to continue.

We are all familiar with Darren. When the recast occurred, the show was already on the air for several years, and sitcoms do tend to have a
somewhat limited time. I think that most people would have preferred Dick York. I thought that DY's Darren seemed more like a bully, not letting Samantha be who she is. I always sided with Endora on that point. Dick Sargant's Darren may have also wanted Samantha to not use her powers, but he seemed less intense,
less dictatorial about it.

It may have been considered that Samantha would meet another mortal, with Darren meeting a tragic end (hopefully not of Endora's doing)
It could have been interesting if the next mortal was much different from Darren, but the tendency would have been to rewrite Darren with another Darren-type anyway, so they might as well recast.

 

[Seaviewer]

Recasting Jock with an established actor like James Arness maybe could have worked.

I think it's better if it's not an established actor. Someone as close to the original as possible.

And someone said, "Donna Reed was a popular choice at the time," when she was brought in to replace Ellie in 1984. Which is ridiculous: some people accepted her, a few may have loved it, but the vast majority or the reaction was decidedly negative. For obvious reasons.

The announcement of Donna Reed coming out of retirement to play Miss Ellie was undoubtedly popular. The reality of the result maybe less so. But that's a different argument to the question of recast or kill.