Minneapolis

[Angela Channing]

"Divert attention to the Obama administration"??

We're trashing everybody -- as per appropriateness.

And throwing words like "misogyny" around endlessly weakens your argument --- and would you mind my calling Margaret Thatcher "a cow"?

What you're doing to bringing irrelevant people into the discussion which has the effect of shifting attention from Trump. Obama is not in power now. Obama isn't deporting anyone now. Obama isn't murdering Americans now. It's like if my house was on fire and instead of addressing that issue, all I want to talk about instead is my neighbour playing music too loud six months ago. If all you want to do is look backwards you will never see the impending disaster than is unfolding right now before everyone else's eyes .

I wouldn't call Margaret Thatcher a "cow" because I choose not to use misogyny to make my arguments.

 

[Laurie!]

Sadly, though I agree with their sentiment about foreign mistreatment of vulnerable people for the most part....I can't comprehend the sudden, seemingly defeatist attitude of @Frank Underwood @Snarky Oracle! .

You're not going to change the present or the future by giving false flag equivalency to Trump with his predecessors. He and the lawless minions he surrounds himself with in positions of power are abhorrent, spineless, morally bankrupt cowards, both abroad and domestically.

Not only that, I've never known previous administrations to so sickeningly tell people to disbelieve what they see with their own eyes and to defend reckless, lawless thugs on American streets (except for Trump's 1st term obviously).

If it's about removing violent illegals, why are they so focused on Minneapolis in January and why would they pull up stakes if Minnesota hands over their voter rolls? After all, they want the "brown ones" they racially profile and for the most part, they're in Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc....but those are red states.

 

[Angela Channing]

Joe Biden said he was looking to "prostitute himself" to big money interests when he was younger. Damn him for not being woke and using misogynistic language!

Nobody is trying to "mitigate" or "normalize" what's happening in places like Minneapolis. I certainly wouldn't call it "unprecedented" or "unnerving" if that were my goal.

My point is if we're truly concerned about the USA becoming an authoritarian, fascist state, why does it only matter when the US government starts murdering our own? Sure, people complain about the wars, but it usually isn't used as a reason to not vote for somebody. However, as soon as a government agency acts lawlessly on US soil and begins entering homes without warrants, capturing people off the streets, and shooting unarmed citizens, it becomes a bridge too far. Please don't take that the wrong way, as I'm not trying to undermine what's happening in Minneapolis. However, my point is that our ability to relate and empathize is often tied to how close we are to the situation personally. We may not be directly impacted by war (outside of what happens to our troops,) but the death and destruction the US causes overseas reflect on us as country. And you're right, Obama hasn't been president for almost ten years. However, sometimes a little history lesson serves as a reminder of the events that led up to our present-day situation.

Joe Biden is not President. Joe Biden is not currently murdering Americans. So we can all try to analyse what Biden said FIFTY years ago or we can be concerned at what is happening in American right now.

I'm not saying history isn't important but when people are dying, I think the here and now should get more attention

 

[Frank Underwood]

Joe Biden is not President. Joe Biden is not currently murdering Americans. So we can all try to analyse what Biden said FIFTY years ago or we can be concerned at what is happening in American right now.

I'm not saying history isn't important but when people are dying, I think the here and now should get more attention

It IS getting attention. And while most of us on this forum didn't vote for Trump, I can still think of valid reasons not to vote for many previous presidents and candidates too.

And just to be clear, both Snarky and I voted for Obama twice.

 

[CeeCee72]

All I am saying is that I am pretty weary of all this being poo-poo'd because Obama and Biden and Bush and whoever else were horrid too.

We have SECRET POLICE kidnapping and killing American citizens on American soil. We have the Attorney General of the United States of America threatening armed invasions of American states unless voter records and social services records are handed over to the feds.

Yes, a thousand times yes Obama was a bad guy. But we were safe in our homes and on our streets here. There is a difference!

 

[Frank Underwood]

Sadly, though I agree with their sentiment about foreign mistreatment of vulnerable people for the most part....I can't comprehend the sudden, seemingly defeatist attitude of @Frank Underwood @Snarky Oracle! .

You're not going to change the present or the future by giving false flag equivalency to Trump with his predecessors. He and the lawless minions he surrounds himself with in positions of power are abhorrent, spineless, morally bankrupt cowards, both abroad and domestically.

Not only that, I've never known previous administrations to so sickeningly tell people to disbelieve what they see with their own eyes and to defend reckless, lawless thugs on American streets (except for Trump's 1st term obviously).

If it's about removing violent illegals, why are they so focused on Minneapolis in January and why would they pull up stakes if Minnesota hands over their voter rolls? After all, they want the "brown ones" they racially profile and for the most part, they're in Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc....but those are red states.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the sudden, seemingly defeatist attitude" of Snarky and myself. There's nothing sudden about it. Our attitude hasn't changed much in the last ten years. You're right that Trump and his criminal cabal try to brainwash his followers into believing the actions of his lawless ICE thugs is normal, but Dems operate differently. They don't cause chaos in the street because they work behind the scenes. They sell us out to the war machine. The war in Gaza started on their watch. The minimum wage raise that Biden promised never happened. In fact, it's been stagnant since 2009. The Dems sell us out to the billionaires just like the Republicans. The Patriot Act that Bush implemented was written by Biden, and he's also responsible for the disastrous crime bill. His pal Obama took us from two wars to seven and expanded warrantless surveillance on. He also made the Bush tax cuts permanent. When you look a little deeper, you find they hide their corruption and cruelty behind a layer of civility.

That's why I believe voting is ultimately futile.

 

[CeeCee72]

That's why I believe voting is ultimately futile.

The way things are going right now we won't have to worry with voting anymore anyway.

 

[Frank Underwood]

All I am saying is that I am pretty weary of all this being poo-poo'd because Obama and Biden and Bush and whoever else were horrid too.

We have SECRET POLICE kidnapping and killing American citizens on American soil. We have the Attorney General of the United States of America threatening armed invasions of American states unless voter records and social services records are handed over to the feds.

Yes, a thousand times yes Obama was a bad guy. But we were safe in our homes and on our streets here. There is a difference

I absolutely get the difference, and I acknowledge it. And I by no means am trying to "poo-poo" what's happening in Minneapolis. I get how frightening that is to have on US soil.

Again, my point isn't to undermine what's happening. I'm just demonstrating that most Americans have a high tolerance for illegal invasions and occupations committed across the globe at the behest of the US government. As soon as the tyranny arrives at their back door, they start looking for people to blame and people to hold accountable. Again, I'm not saying they don't have a right to be angry or that what's happening in Minneapolis isn't a travesty. I just wish people were this aware and this fired up a long time ago.

 

[CeeCee72]

I absolutely get the difference, and I acknowledge it. And I by no means am trying to "poo-poo" what's happening in Minneapolis. I get how frightening that is to have on US soil.

Again, my point isn't to undermine what's happening. I'm just demonstrating that most Americans have a high tolerance for illegal invasions and occupations committed across the globe at the behest of the US government. As soon as the tyranny arrives at their back door, they start looking for people to blame and people to hold accountable. Again, I'm not saying they don't have a right to be angry or that what's happening in Minneapolis isn't a travesty. I just wish people were this aware and this fired up a long time ago.

Americans are notoriously nationalistic. We are big headed and selfish. We are taught from a very young age that America is the best country in the world and that our interests are the only interests that matter. Anyone who questions that narrative is labeled a traitor, regardless of which party holds power (remember Snowden?).

I agree it's a shame it takes atrocities happening to US for us to care.

But that's the American way.

 

[Laurie!]

I'm not sure what you mean by "the sudden, seemingly defeatist attitude" of Snarky and myself. There's nothing sudden about it.

I realize you've been against the Iraq, Afghanistan invasions and want action against Israel for the genocide occurring...the same as me. I don't however believe you should concede defeat.

That's why I believe voting is ultimately futile.

Voting is more important than ever. Demand change....use your money wisely and boycott big military industry and oil companies whenever possible.

They don't have empathy or morality for the most part...they do recognize financial pain and the politicians only care about reelection. Show them they won't be reelected if they don't bend to the will of the majority rather than billionaires.

Morality and empathy should always matter and getting politicians out of people's abdomens, bodies, bedrooms and deliberately orchestrated culture wars needs to happen now.

 

[Laurie!]

I just read poet laureate Amanda Gorman's poem for Alex Pretti and this one poignant line really sums up what's important:

Fear not those without papers
but those without conscience

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

What you're doing to bringing irrelevant people into the discussion which has the effect of shifting attention from Trump. Obama is not in power now. Obama isn't deporting anyone now. Obama isn't murdering Americans now. It's like if my house was on fire and instead of addressing that issue, all I want to talk about instead is my neighbour playing music too loud six months ago. If all you want to do is look backwards you will never see the impending disaster than is unfolding right now before everyone else's eyes .

The point is that it's The System.

As obnoxious and destructive as he is, he's a symptom of how utterly corrosive that system is.

I wouldn't call Margaret Thatcher a "cow" because I choose not to use misogyny to make my arguments.

Oh, sure you wouldn't. So you choose to endlessly use the word "misogyny" to make your argument. And I'd expect mothing less.

All I am saying is that I am pretty weary of all this being poo-poo'd because Obama and Biden and Bush and whoever else were horrid too.

We have SECRET POLICE kidnapping and killing American citizens on American soil. We have the Attorney General of the United States of America threatening armed invasions of American states unless voter records and social services records are handed over to the feds.

Yes, a thousand times yes Obama was a bad guy. But we were safe in our homes and on our streets here. There is a difference!

No one's pooing here (depending on how you spell it). Frank and myself are basically in agreement with everyone else here about Trump's actions -- and yet some of you want a "purer" argument where Trump alone (and not the system) is impugned.

And that political argument is as immature as poopoo.

 

[CeeCee72]

in- and yet some of you want a "purer" argument where Trump alone (and not the system) is impugned.

And that political argument is as immature as poopoo.

I am not (and have never been) one making that "purer" argument. I have repeatedly agreed with you and @Frank Underwood about the corruption in the system and of all of our leaders.

Having said that, Trump is the absolute worst of them all - and he is using the corrupt system in ways no other corrupt president has ever acted on (or probably even dreamed was possible).

For me, the FAULT is with corruption on both sides, but the EMERGENCY we are facing right now is Trump and Trump alone.

 

[Laurie!]

but the EMERGENCY we are facing right now is Trump and Trump alone.

I agree except Trump isn't smart enough to be the architect of all this himself.

On a sidenote, I heard Caro-lyin Leavitt repeatedly invoke the name of Laken Riley today to seemingly justify the death of Alex Pretti due to her murder by an illegal immigrant.
She blamed Governor Walz and local leadership for not turning over the violent illegal immigrants in Minnesota so they can be immediately deported...which lead me to question, why hasn't red state Georgia seemingly handed over Riley's illegal immigrant convicted murderer for his immediate deportation? Could it be that this is all just a circus sideshow to enrage the MAGA base and they're fully aware that convicted illegals are often more guaranteed to stay incarcerated in American prisons than in their country of origin?

 

[Angela Channing]

Why is everyone bleating on about the US Government murdering its own citizens? Why aren't you also concerned about something a retired former President, who is dying and no longer has any power, said over a half of a century ago?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Contemptible though he is, Trump is a symptom.

Both sides are 100% corrupt and essentially do the same things, but Trump is more overt about it (because he like the attention). At least his craven behavior gives us a glimpse of how the system works (whether he's in The White house or not). He says -- and does -- the quiet part out loud.

But you ladies keep thinking like women, and can't pull your heads out of the sand and see through the duopoly myth of Washington and how it really works.

Frankly, you'd all be happier staying at home and making sandwiches for your closeted husbands.

 

[Angela Channing]

Contemptible though he is, Trump is a symptom.

Both sides are 100% corrupt and essentially do the same things, but Trump is more overt about it (because he like the attention). At least his craven behavior gives us a glimpse of how the system works (whether he's in The White house or not). He says -- and does -- the quiet part out loud.

But you ladies keep thinking like women, and can't pull your heads out of the sand and see through the duopoly myth of Washington and how it really works.

Frankly, you'd all be happier staying at home and making sandwiches for your closeted husbands.

Whatever the shortcomings of previous Democrat administration, I think it's wrong to suggest it's equivalent to what is currently happening. What Trump is doing is on a scale of fascism that I can't recall happening in the USA during my lifetime.

How exactly do women think? The way I see it is that women are thinking very clearly when they bravely confront ICE officials and record their law-breaking so the lies of the Trump administration regarding what is happening in Minneapolis can be challenged. They are doing this at great risk to their personal safety and tragically in one case, it cost a woman her life. They are heroic.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Whatever the shortcomings of prev Democrat admins eye, I think it's wrong to suggest it's equivalent to what is currently happening. What Trump is doing is on a scale of fascism that I can't recall happening in the USA during my lifetime.

Again, you still buy into the duopoly myth of Washington, DC, and will continue to -- because it's reassuring.

How exactly do women think? The way I see it is that women are thinking very clearly

A lack of a sense of humor reflects a lack of perspective.

when they bravely confront ICE officials and record their law-breaking so the lies of the Trump administration regarding what is happening in Minneapolis can be challenged. They are doing this at great risk to their personal safety and tragically in one case, it cost a woman her life. They are heroic.

Ditto. And murder is bad.

 

[CeeCee72]

But you ladies keep thinking like women, and can't pull your heads out of the sand and see through the duopoly myth of Washington and how it really works.

Frankly, you'd all be happier staying at home and making sandwiches for your closeted husbands.

I realize this is an attempt at humor.

It's a bad one.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I realize this is an attempt at humor.

It's a bad one.

Why must you all be complimented?

Use the word "misogyny" all day long, it raises its ugly head.