shaqattaq ranks Knots Landing

[shaqattaq32]

#3. Michele Lee

She really was such a huge cheerleader for the show, wasn't she? You could feel her enthusiasm for the show and for her character from day 1, and I think she is a huge reason why the show was so successful. And like I said... you could feel just from her performance how passionate she was about her character, Karen Fairgate Mackenzie.... To the point where you kind of think of her as your own know-it-all-but-still-lovable neighbor Karen, and not the ultraglamorous and beautiful and spectacular actress Michele Lee.

But she reminds you with this pose! Now THAT is the pose of the undisputed leading lady of Knots Landing. THAT is a pose that says, "Yeah, this is my show, bitch, so what? You gonna be lame and watch L.A. Law or Cagney and Lacey or you gonna come smoke some gonj with me and make fun of Val's coffee behind her back?"

She looks so flawless. The black and white just complements her looks so well and you're just immediately drawn to her eyes. Guess Donna Mills is not the only whose eyes have it.

She is a lovable boss bitch and her pose is absolutely perfect.... But there are two that are just slightly more fabulous. Still. Ms. Lee, get down wit yo bad self.

POSH POSES RANKED SO FAR:

#8. Kevin Dobson
#7. Ted Shackelford
#6. Julie Harris
#5. William Devane
#4. Donna Mills
#3. Michele Lee

POSH POSES REMAINING TO BE RANKED:

Constance McCashin
Joan Van Ark

 

[TaranofPrydain]

#3. Michele Lee

She really was such a huge cheerleader for the show, wasn't she? You could feel her enthusiasm for the show and for her character from day 1, and I think she is a huge reason why the show was so successful. And like I said... you could feel just from her performance how passionate she was about her character, Karen Fairgate Mackenzie.... To the point where you kind of think of her as your own know-it-all-but-still-lovable neighbor Karen, and not the ultraglamorous and beautiful and spectacular actress Michele Lee.

But she reminds you with this pose! Now THAT is the pose of the undisputed leading lady of Knots Landing. THAT is a pose that says, "Yeah, this is my show, bitch, so what? You gonna be lame and watch L.A. Law or Cagney and Lacey or you gonna come smoke some gonj with me and make fun of Val's coffee behind her back?"

She looks so flawless. The black and white just complements her looks so well and you're just immediately drawn to her eyes. Guess Donna Mills is not the only whose eyes have it.

She is a lovable boss bitch and her pose is absolutely perfect.... But there are two that are just slightly more fabulous. Still. Ms. Lee, get down wit yo bad self.

POSH POSES RANKED SO FAR:

#8. Kevin Dobson
#7. Ted Shackelford
#6. Julie Harris
#5. William Devane
#4. Donna Mills
#3. Michele Lee

POSH POSES REMAINING TO BE RANKED:

Constance McCashin
Joan Van Ark

An irony is that when Cagney and Lacey was conceived as just amovie of the week, CBS wanted Michele to play Mary Beth Lacey, but her Knots commitment got in the way, and Tyne Daly got the part in the telefilm and then the series. All three series you mention are good series, but Knots is the best of the three. (And I am still shocked by Kathleen [Claudia] Noone's chutzpah in being a guest on the May 13, 1993 episode of LA Law that aired directly opposite the Knots series finale.)

 

[Willie Oleson]

CBS wanted Michele to play Mary Beth Lacey, but her Knots commitment got in the way

Mary Beth was a Knots Landing/Dallas fan in Cagney & Lacey. She only mentioned the soaps once, but still...

 

[Daniel Avery]

And she was married to Willie Loomis!

 

[Willie Oleson]

a.k.a. Willie "don't do it, Barnabas!" Loomis.
I hate him.

 

[shaqattaq32]

#2. Joan Van Ark

There is a moment in season 4 of Knots Landing where someone tells Valene that she looks good and she says, "I think I look good too." Val is such a fascinating character. She has been learning how to become the best version of herself going on 9 years now. She arrived to the cul-de-sac as a simple country southern girl. But she has become so much more. And, gorl, she wants you to know, hunny, that she has arrived in these opening credits.

The fierce expression on her face. The businesslike clothes that Sweetpea Valene would never wear. The look in her eyes.

This pose is everything.

Valene's heart is a deep ocean, and here she is looking incredible and posing like she is Xena Warrior Princess taking on the entire world.

I can't believe that this is actually Valene posing and not a drag queen doing Valene because it's just that freaking fierce. They write Valene the most melodramatic storylines sometimes but this pose tells you her secret: she is actually the baddest bitch in this cast.

Which brings us to.....

#1. Constance McCashin

Her head turn absolutely puts Susan Sullivan to shame. Sorry, Susan.

Laura's had some wild hairstyles over the years, but in this clip, her hair is flawless. She looks like a freaking shampoo model. This is the look she should have always had.

In many ways, she owns the opening 1/3 of this season, so it's appropriate that she should also be the biggest deal of the opening credits. I really think they did a great job writing her off the series. It felt like losing a member of the family you thought would always be there. But it's clear that there wasn't anything else for the Laura character to do. So she had to die.

But, hey, at least she does it with style.

FINAL RANKING:

#8. Kevin Dobson
#7. Ted Shackelford
#6. Julie Harris
#5. William Devane
#4. Donna Mills
#3. Michele Lee
#2. Joan Van Ark
#1. Constance McCashin

 

[shaqattaq32]

What do people want me to rank next? Off-the-wall ideas welcome.

 

[TaranofPrydain]

What do people want me to rank next? Off-the-wall ideas welcome.

Perhaps the show's villains? (Chip/Tony, Joshua, Dr. Akerman, Peter, Jill, Danny, Pierce, Mary/Loretta Robeson, Treadwell)

 

[Toni]

A few suggestions from my channel:

 

[shaqattaq32]

My next ranking will be season cliffhangers.

I'm not ranking season finales, or whether or not the resolution to the cliffhanger was satisfying, but merely the quality of the cliffhanger itself and how much it made me want to watch the next season.

Every season aside from seasons 1 and 14 have a cliffhanger that will be ranked. As a refresher, these are the scenes that will be ranked:

Season 2 (Sid goes over a cliff)
Season 3 (Valene leaves Gary and the cul-de-sac)
Season 4 (Diana has left with Chip/Gary is in jail for Ciji's murder)
Season 5 (Karen is shot, Abby is kidnapped)
Season 6 ("Harry, go, they wanna take the babies!")
Season 7 (Karen is revealed locked in a basement by a male kidnapper)
Season 8 (There's a crack in the cement where Abby just buried Peter)
Season 9 (Valene is passed out on the floor)
Season 10 (Paige in the rain, does she choose Greg or Ted?)
Season 11 (Karen's stalker is revealed)
Season 12 (Karen takes a joyride)
Season 13 (Pierce is alive and appears behind Paige in her car)

We'll start with the worst and rank down to the best. Any thoughts on what I had as the WORST cliffhanger?

 

[Knots4ever]

My next ranking will be season cliffhangers.

I'm not ranking season finales, or whether or not the resolution to the cliffhanger was satisfying, but merely the quality of the cliffhanger itself and how much it made me want to watch the next season.

Every season aside from seasons 1 and 14 have a cliffhanger that will be ranked. As a refresher, these are the scenes that will be ranked:

Season 2 (Sid goes over a cliff)
Season 3 (Valene leaves Gary and the cul-de-sac)
Season 4 (Diana has left with Chip/Gary is in jail for Ciji's murder)
Season 5 (Karen is shot, Abby is kidnapped)
Season 6 ("Harry, go, they wanna take the babies!")
Season 7 (Karen is revealed locked in a basement by a male kidnapper)
Season 8 (There's a crack in the cement where Abby just buried Peter)
Season 9 (Valene is passed out on the floor)
Season 10 (Paige in the rain, does she choose Greg or Ted?)
Season 11 (Karen's stalker is revealed)
Season 12 (Karen takes a joyride)
Season 13 (Pierce is alive and appears behind Paige in her car)

We'll start with the worst and rank down to the best. Any thoughts on what I had as the WORST cliffhanger?

Worst cliffhanger of all time surely has to be season 12! I mean WTAF.

My rankings for what it’s worth:

5, 6, 8, 9, 4, 2, 7, 3, 13, 11, 10, 12

 

[Julia's Gun]

Season 10 was a really lame one. Not only had Abby been written out in the previous episode and didn't even feature, we are left with Paige simply facing a choice. No real jeopardy for any character. I remember being very disappointed, considering how shocking the previous year had been.

 

[Willie Oleson]

1 - the most poignant (thanks to Joan van Ark and Ted Shackelford)
2- the most DALLAS-y. It was Sid, but it could have been Bobby or Sue Ellen.
3- the most devastating, especially if you put it next to the first season finale.
4- the most beautifully Knotsy.
5- the most traditionally eighties soap (which is not a bad thing at all).
6- the most manipulative (everybody loves it, I don't).
7- the most trailer-y (as in "coming soon....")
8- the most Tales Of The Unexpected.
9-the most "too much information". Should have stopped with that lovely view of the house.
10-the most film noir.
11-the kinkiest one (despite being unintentionally hilarious)
12-the most exciting cliffhanger.
13- a little cliché, but I like Paige's Laura Palmer-esque reaction.

Not as easy as ranking the Dallas/Dynasty/Falcon Crest cliffhangers.

 

[shaqattaq32]

Starting with the WORST Knots Landing cliffhanger:

12. Season 11 (Karen's stalker is revealed)

It was EASY for me to pick the worst, because I knew what the other 11 were off the top of my head. But season 11? I had absolutely no recollection of how it ended. I had to pop on the episode and watch the last five minutes. And after I watched it, meh. It’s kinda cool stylistically with the clips of Karen he’s watching and his creepy scrapbook, but Knots had done creepy before and better. This just isn’t bringing anything new or original or interesting.

Tommy said in his Knots blog something to the effect of everyone THINKS they like the Karen Stalker storyline, but really we just like Robin Strasser. And I seriously think that is true.

Super unmemorable ending to a season.

Cliffhangers ranked so far:

12. Season 11 (Karen's stalker is revealed)

Cliffhangers remaining to be ranked:

Season 2 (Sid goes over a cliff)
Season 3 (Valene leaves Gary and the cul-de-sac)
Season 4 (Diana has left with Chip/Gary is in jail for Ciji's murder)
Season 5 (Karen is shot, Abby is kidnapped)
Season 6 ("Harry, go, they wanna take the babies!")
Season 7 (Karen is revealed locked in a basement by a male kidnapper)
Season 8 (There's a crack in the cement where Abby just buried Peter)
Season 9 (Valene is passed out on the floor)
Season 10 (Paige in the rain, does she choose Greg or Ted?)
Season 12 (Karen takes a joyride)
Season 13 (Pierce is alive and appears behind Paige in her car)

thoughts? Agree? Disagree?

 

[shaqattaq32]

11. Season 10 (Paige in the rain, does she choose Greg or Ted?)

Boy, does this scene land with a thud. It's like something out of a badly written daytime soap.

OK, so even if Paige thinks she knows something about Greg, why is it necessary for her to leave in that exact minute (especially since it's raining and she's not dressed)? IF he killed someone, it was cold and calculated, not because he's psycho, and he wouldn't do that to her.

The way Greg is dressed and kind of creepily waddles around the Sumner estate contributes to the outright absurdity of this scene, and honey, his dialogue really is not helping. "This is not fun!" he yells to Paige. You're telling us, Greg! "The strip croquet game is canceled due to inclement weather." Groan. Well, way to suck the fun out of that one.

And, what?! Ted Melcher just happens to be waiting there? Why, exactly? And, Paige, dumbass, doesn't the fact that he just happens to be waiting there make him creepier than Greg?

Nicollette does what she can with the scene and looks fabulous with her wet hair flips, and she manages to pull off not sounding quite as absurd as Greg does, but woof. This scene sucks. Only thing that puts it ahead of the season 11 cliffhanger is that at least this one was memorable to me.

Cliffhangers ranked thus far:

12. Season 11 (Karen's stalker is revealed)
11. Season 10 (Paige in the rain, does she choose Greg or Ted?)

Cliffhangers remaining to be ranked:

Season 2 (Sid goes over a cliff)
Season 3 (Valene leaves Gary and the cul-de-sac)
Season 4 (Diana has left with Chip/Gary is in jail for Ciji's murder)
Season 5 (Karen is shot, Abby is kidnapped)
Season 6 ("Harry, go, they wanna take the babies!")
Season 7 (Karen is revealed locked in a basement by a male kidnapper)
Season 8 (There's a crack in the cement where Abby just buried Peter)
Season 9 (Valene is passed out on the floor)
Season 12 (Karen takes a joyride)
Season 13 (Pierce is alive and appears behind Paige in her car)

What cliffhanger are you shocked managed to escape the bottom 2? Which underdog cliffhanger are you rooting for to make an unexpected run in this ranking?

 

[shaqattaq32]

10. Season 7 (Karen is revealed locked in a basement by a male kidnapper)

Not a total trainwreck like the season 10 cliffhanger, but... just came out of nowhere/boring/not that interesting.

I'm trying not to have my knowledge of season 8 inform my opinion here. But pretending that I haven't seen season 8, what's the most interesting thing they could possibly do? That Greg had her kidnapped to get rid of her? But I think we wouldn't suspect that because that would ruin Greg's character. Lilimae ran down Chip with her car, yes, but Chip had it coming! Greg doing something to our beloved heroine Karen would just ruin Greg.

So I think the only possibility is that some rando we don't care about did it, and Karen will be kidnapped for a few episodes, and then come back. Which is what happened.

Did any of the Big Four 80s primetime soaps ever really do a good kidnapping storyline? i can't think of one.

But then what exactly are they supposed to do for their cliffhanger? Going into season 8, they're clearly in a rush to drop anything having to do with Empire Valley, so they pretty much have to walk away from everything that has been building all season. And Ben/Cathy has been icky enough (plus, that F***ING trashy ho stealing Valene's man after Valene's been so good to her. I'm so happy Valene gets to take out her anger on Cathy's stupid record) so we don't need to be ending on that. So I guess they had to pull something out of their butts real quick with this cliffhanger? It showed...

Cliffhangers ranked thus far:

12. Season 11 (Karen's stalker is revealed)
11. Season 10 (Paige in the rain, does she choose Greg or Ted?)
10. Season 7 (Karen is revealed locked in a basement by a male kidnapper)

Cliffhangers remaining to be ranked:

Season 2 (Sid goes over a cliff)
Season 3 (Valene leaves Gary and the cul-de-sac)
Season 4 (Diana has left with Chip/Gary is in jail for Ciji's murder)
Season 5 (Karen is shot, Abby is kidnapped)
Season 6 ("Harry, go, they wanna take the babies!")
Season 8 (There's a crack in the cement where Abby just buried Peter)
Season 9 (Valene is passed out on the floor)
Season 12 (Karen takes a joyride)
Season 13 (Pierce is alive and appears behind Paige in her car)

Which cliffhangers do you find most overrated?

 

[TaranofPrydain]

Starting with the WORST Knots Landing cliffhanger:

12. Season 11 (Karen's stalker is revealed)

It was EASY for me to pick the worst, because I knew what the other 11 were off the top of my head. But season 11? I had absolutely no recollection of how it ended. I had to pop on the episode and watch the last five minutes. And after I watched it, meh. It’s kinda cool stylistically with the clips of Karen he’s watching and his creepy scrapbook, but Knots had done creepy before and better. This just isn’t bringing anything new or original or interesting.

Tommy said in his Knots blog something to the effect of everyone THINKS they like the Karen Stalker storyline, but really we just like Robin Strasser. And I seriously think that is true.

Super unmemorable ending to a season.

Cliffhangers ranked so far:

12. Season 11 (Karen's stalker is revealed)

Cliffhangers remaining to be ranked:

Season 2 (Sid goes over a cliff)
Season 3 (Valene leaves Gary and the cul-de-sac)
Season 4 (Diana has left with Chip/Gary is in jail for Ciji's murder)
Season 5 (Karen is shot, Abby is kidnapped)
Season 6 ("Harry, go, they wanna take the babies!")
Season 7 (Karen is revealed locked in a basement by a male kidnapper)
Season 8 (There's a crack in the cement where Abby just buried Peter)
Season 9 (Valene is passed out on the floor)
Season 10 (Paige in the rain, does she choose Greg or Ted?)
Season 12 (Karen takes a joyride)
Season 13 (Pierce is alive and appears behind Paige in her car)

thoughts? Agree? Disagree?

I would say that the two you ranked just above this one are worse than this one. This one at least has an air of creepiness and some style, whereas the other two season enders just don't have any momentum... they just stop midstream.

 

[shaqattaq32]

I would say that the two you ranked just above this one are worse than this one. This one at least has an air of creepiness and some style, whereas the other two season enders just don't have any momentum... they just stop midstream.

Yeah I kinda had the same thought as I was writing the next two but what are you gonna do. That’s what I get for not figuring out my rankings ahead of time.

 

[shaqattaq32]

9. Season 2 (Sid goes over a cliff)

This one is OK. There’s something I love about the way Southern California looks on 70s and early 80s television shows, and this cliffhanger has that look. I can’t quite place what it is, but it adds something special to shows from that era. I think because tv shows in that era were selling California as paradise. We still had BH90210 doing that in the 90s and the OC doing it in the 2000s. From the vantage point of 2024, it seems ridiculous that anyone would consider California to be paradise. And then you remember that as ahead of its time as Knots was, and as timeless as many of its characters are, you’re watching a show from over 40 years ago.

I digressed for longer than I meant to in the first paragraph. This is an OK cliffhanger, but it’s not as exciting as it could be because you know there’s absolutely no way they’re going to kill Sid off. It’s also kind of silly - you mean to tell me Sid drove all that way without realizing his breaks were cut? He must be a speed demon.

The conversation in Sid’s car is a bit interesting. It’s remarked that Jeff may have a chance of getting custody from Abby, even though ten years ago he wouldn’t have stood a shot. And you remember just how fast society was changing at the time Knots was on the air. It really should be studied for how well it encapsulated a certain era of American history. And then you realize that Sid himself was an anachronism, and by 1993 when Knots ended the idea of a character like Sid being a leading man on a prime time soap would seem absurd.

anyway, I keep digressing. The first time I watched this, it didn’t necessarily make me want to keep watching. I watched Knots for the first time on SoapNet in the mid 2000s because it had such a great reputation as the highest quality 80s primetime soap. But I kept waiting for it to get good - luckily I was aware that the first few seasons were considered slow and it didn’t really take off until later. But did this cliffhanger make me think it was good yet?

lolno.


Cliffhangers ranked thus far:

12. Season 11 (Karen's stalker is revealed)
11. Season 10 (Paige in the rain, does she choose Greg or Ted?)
10. Season 7 (Karen is revealed locked in a basement by a male kidnapper)
9. Season 2 (Sid goes over a cliff)

Cliffhangers remaining to be ranked:

Season 3 (Valene leaves Gary and the cul-de-sac)
Season 4 (Diana has left with Chip/Gary is in jail for Ciji's murder)
Season 5 (Karen is shot, Abby is kidnapped)
Season 6 ("Harry, go, they wanna take the babies!")
Season 8 (There's a crack in the cement where Abby just buried Peter)
Season 9 (Valene is passed out on the floor)
Season 12 (Karen takes a joyride)
Season 13 (Pierce is alive and appears behind Paige in her car)

 

[shaqattaq32]

8. Season 8 (There's a crack in the cement where Abby just buried Peter)

Kinda short and sweet, simple, amusing. We've just seen Abby move heaven and earth to protect her child. After 7 seasons, Abby pulls off one heist after another and she always lands on her feet, more or less. The Abby/Olivia relationship has become so important to the show and I don't think I've ever met any Knots fans who dislike Olivia's drug storyline in season 8 and the brilliant episode "No Miracle Worker," in which Donna Mills and Tonya Crowe both give tour de force performances.

Abby thinks she's gotten away with getting rid of Peter's body and stashing it where nobody will ever find it. But as she and Karen pull up in a golf cart to the future site of the Lotus Point Children's Playground, there's a subtle troubled look on Abby's face. Even the indomitable Abby Ewing was severely traumatized by everything she went through in this episode. But she's ready to put it all behind her and focus on her troubled child. Until... there's a crack in the cement where Abby stashed Peter! Karen surmises it's probably just cosmetic, but it could be structural, and then they're in deep doo-doo... what do you think Abby? Freeze frame.

It's cute and clever. I think I'm allowing myself to have my opinion clouded by knowing how the storyline wraps up in season 9 (to quote the funny recap they produced of the first 200 episodes, "Abby thinks Olivia killed Peter and Olivia thinks Abby killed Peter but actually Paige killed Peter... but, nobody cares anymore.") If I were watching this for the first time I think I would be wondering, "OK, how's Abby gonna get herself out of THIS one?"

It's a clever ending, sure, but it's a testament to the strength of Knots' writing that there are 7 better ones.

Cliffhangers ranked thus far:

12. Season 11 (Karen's stalker is revealed)
11. Season 10 (Paige in the rain, does she choose Greg or Ted?)
10. Season 7 (Karen is revealed locked in a basement by a male kidnapper)
9. Season 2 (Sid goes over a cliff)
8. Season 8 (There's a crack in the cement where Abby just buried Peter)

Cliffhangers remaining to be ranked:

Season 3 (Valene leaves Gary and the cul-de-sac)
Season 4 (Diana has left with Chip/Gary is in jail for Ciji's murder)
Season 5 (Karen is shot, Abby is kidnapped)
Season 6 ("Harry, go, they wanna take the babies!")
Season 9 (Valene is passed out on the floor)
Season 12 (Karen takes a joyride)
Season 13 (Pierce is alive and appears behind Paige in her car)

Which cliffhanger are you surprised is still in the ranking, and why is it season 12? Which one was robbed by going out in the bottom 5?