Sue Ellen: Why She Chooses Men Who Hurt Her

[Kenny Coyote]

Remember when after Sue Ellen had divorced JR, she was on her own for the first time and Clayton started looking after her? Clayton really bent over backwards trying to be protective and nice and good to Sue Ellen. He had fallen in love with her. Meanwhile, she was seeing Cliff, who didn't begin to compare to Clayton as a man. Finally she remarried JR. Any way you want to look at it, Clayton was a far superior man to Cliff or JR.

We all saw how Cliff would be verbally abusive and inconsiderate to any woman unfortunate enough to get into a relationship with him. We saw Cliff and JR both treat women in ways that Clayton would never even consider. Clayton was on another whole level as to how he treated women.

Sue Ellen didn't see anything attractive about Clayton though and just treated him as a friend. I remember when after started seeing Miss Ellie, Sue Ellen got jealous and said to Clayton, but I thought you were my friend? Clayton replied: "To the exclusion of everyone else? Clayton went on to ask Sue Ellen: "Couldn't you see I was in love with you? It must have been written all over my face."

The best part was when he told Sue Ellen: "I see a lot of good qualities in her (Ellie) that I used to think were in you." Sue Ellen decided to go back to the man who had made verbally abused her and cheated on her. She had every chance in the world to be with Clayton and she threw it away.

Here's my question for you: Do you think Sue Ellen goes for bad guys like JR and Cliff over a clearly superior man like Clayton because she is in some way turned on by a man who treats her badly? Would Clayton have been more likely to get Sue Ellen to fall in love with him if he'd acted more like a "bad guy"?

 

[CeeCee72]

Here's my question for you: Do you think Sue Ellen goes for bad guys like JR and Cliff over a clearly superior man like Clayton because she is in some way turned on by a man who treats her badly? Would Clayton have been more likely to get Sue Ellen to fall in love with him if he'd acted more like a "bad guy"?

I don't think Sue Ellen was "turned on" by being treated badly. She had relatively stable relationships with Nick and Don towards the end of her run on the show. They both treated her well. And Dusty was, for the most part, good to her too.

Regarding Clayton, I don't think SE would have loved him of he'd been a "bad guy." He was too old for her. And he was the father of her former lover. She never thought of him that way and that's natural. Clayton was being totally unrealistic to think he had a shot. Now, SE should have been perceptive enough to see what was happening with his feelings towards her, but to be fair, at the time she was ALREADY struggling with her feelings for JR AND Dusty suddenly appeared back in her life. She was a bit distracted.

Cliff was never anything more to her than a way to get back at JR. She convinced herself she loved him only to ease her own conscience about using him (which is ironic because Cliff was using her for the same reason). That's why she had so much guilt when he tried to kill himself - because she has used him for the sole reason to get under JR's skin.

SE WAS attracted to ONE man who constantly hurt her - JR. But that was deeper than attraction and it wasn't BECAUSE he hurt her, it was IN SPITE of it. SE loved JR (to the point of unhealthy obsession). In a nutshell, I feel like that's why all of her other relationships were doomed. No matter how her other lovers treated her (good OR bad), they weren't JR, so it always went bad.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

I don't think Sue Ellen was "turned on" by being treated badly. She had relatively stable relationships with Nick and Don towards the end of her run on the show. They both treated her well. And Dusty was, for the most part, good to her too.

Regarding Clayton, I don't think SE would have loved him of he'd been a "bad guy." He was too old for her. And he was the father of her former lover. She never thought of him that way and that's natural. Clayton was being totally unrealistic to think he had a shot. Now, SE should have been perceptive enough to see what was happening with his feelings towards her, but to be fair, at the time she was ALREADY struggling with her feelings for JR AND Dusty suddenly appeared back in her life. She was a bit distracted.

Cliff was never anything more to her than a way to get back at JR. She convinced herself she loved him only to ease her own conscience about using him (which is ironic because Cliff was using her for the same reason). That's why she had so much guilt when he tried to kill himself - because she has used him for the sole reason to get under JR's skin.

SE WAS attracted to ONE man who constantly hurt her - JR. But that was deeper than attraction and it wasn't BECAUSE he hurt her, it was IN SPITE of it. SE loved JR (to the point of unhealthy obsession). In a nutshell, I feel like that's why all of her other relationships were doomed. No matter how her other lovers treated her (good OR bad), they weren't JR, so it always went bad.

Very nice @CeeCee72! I was interested in the aspect of if people think it was attraction based partially on a self-destructive need to be treated poorly, or if as you said, it was purely attraction in spite of being treated badly. The main reason I questioned if it could be a "partially because of " instead of "in spite of" is she married JR twice.

Another way to put it would be: I was wondering if maybe her low-self esteem made her feel uncomfortable being treated well, as if she felt she were unworthy of being treated well. I doubt that's something many people think of on a conscious level, but deep down on a subconscious level there are people who feel uncomfortable being treated well because of self-esteem issues.

 

[Chris2]

Totally agreed, CeeCee, about Clayton. He was a father figure to her. She had no romantic interest in him, and he should have realized that.

In hindsight, I feel for Sue Ellen. She was such a broken person. I didn’t love the ending with her “revenge” movie. It would have been much more effective for her to find the right man (not Don Lockwood) and say goodbye to JR the way that Pam did in the dream season (“I just don’t care any more.”). Hate isn’t the opposite of love; indifference is.

 

[CeeCee72]

Totally agreed, CeeCee, about Clayton. He was a father figure to her. She had no romantic interest in him, and he should have realized that.

In hindsight, I feel for Sue Ellen. She was such a broken person. I didn’t love the ending with her “revenge” movie. It would have been much more effective for her to find the right man (not Don Lockwood) and say goodbye to JR the way that Pam did in the dream season (“I just don’t care any more.”). Hate isn’t the opposite of love; indifference is.

God, I hated that Revenge movie storyline for SO MANY reasons.

SE was very broken. I think that's why so many fans found her "likeable" in spite of some of her character flaws. We wanted her to get herself together. In the end, she "moved on" but not really. You're right, hate isn't the opposite of love. There is actually (in romantic relationships) a very thin line between the two. SE left town, but not before making sure JR was trapped in a miserable marriage and threatened by her movie. It all made her feel as if she still had some control over his life. I hated it. OF COURSE I would have preferred for JR and SE to continue to be together, but since that didn't happen, I despised the way the writers handled her final storylines.

@Kenny Coyote yes, SE had low self-esteem. I personally don't think that's why she chose to keep going back to JR. She loved him (and she believed - rightly so in my opinion) that he loved her and held out hope someday he would change. I think her low self-esteem was a result of her relationship with JR, not the reason for it. Does that make sense?

 

[Kenny Coyote]

@Kenny Coyote yes, SE had low self-esteem. I personally don't think that's why she chose to keep going back to JR. She loved him (and she believed - rightly so in my opinion) that he loved her and held out hope someday he would change. I think her low self-esteem was a result of her relationship with JR, not the reason for it. Does that make sense?

I agree that SE had low self esteem but I believe she must have had it before she married JR or she wouldn't have allowed him to treat her that badly for that long. I think her self-esteem worsened as her marriage worsened.

Kristin had different problems but one thing she would not have done is settled for being treated poorly for years. After a few months of neglect from JR that ended it for her. That shows me she believed she deserved better treatment. If it had ended there and she'd gone back to California, fine. That she shot JR for is an even worse problem, but a problem different in its nature from the problem of being willing to take abuse for years and years.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Drunken daddy. 'nuff said.

Yes, Sue Ellen dated some nice men, but she was never really into them.

 

[Jimmy Todd]

She made a comment to Pam in the beginning of season 7 that if she wasn't Mrs. Ewing, she didn't add up to much. This shows her low self esteem. As @Snarky's Ghost pointed out, an alcoholic parent wreaks all kinds of havoc on a child's self esteem. Add the kind of mother Patricia was to the mix. Patricia raised her to believe all a woman could do was catch a rich man. Sue Ellen's parents did a number on her, that's for sure.
It was good to see in later seasons Sue Ellen's self esteem grow. The revenge movie, unfortunately, was a regression because it made her just as codependent on JR. It also made her look pathetic.
Afton was the one who in season 5 pointed out to SE that Clayton was in love with her, and that she, Afton, would toss both Cliff and JR aside for him. Of course, I'm sure in Afton's eyes it didn't hurt that Clayton was rich.
Maybe someone could have made a similar insightful observation to SE when she was making that movie. For example, Lucy could have told her to get a life and put her time and money into something more productive. Too bad Afton wasn't around then.