The Pammy Principle.

[Yesterday from the Beatles]

Victoria was on the covers at the time because she was a better actress than Linda and Joan? Or because she was simply... younger? And that sells better. Also, maybe she liked it more than the other two, had a better agent. I don't know. There are some actresses who mainly stick to acting and avoid publicity, and there are others who love to promote themselves, no matter what. I mean, I like Pam, just to make it clear. But in terms of acting, compare her to Linda and Joan, for me, it's funny. She was ok, but nowhere near those two.

 

[Laurie!]

Victoria was on the covers at the time because she was a better actress than Linda and Joan? Or because she was simply... younger? And that sells better. Also, maybe she liked it more than the other two, had a better agent. I don't know. There are some actresses who mainly stick to acting and avoid publicity, and there are others who love to promote themselves, no matter what. I mean, I like Pam, just to make it clear. But in terms of acting, compare her to Linda and Joan, for me, it's funny. She was ok, but nowhere near those two.

I don't think anyone would believe that Joan didn't crave magazine attention lol. I don't agree with Linda and Joan being better actresses either. I think Dynasty was the definition of camp acting.

I think both Linda Gray and Victoria had their ups and downs acting wise but both became very good when the writing was good. Patrick definitely had some very bad scenes too. Let's not let the guys off the hook....Bobby acting like a rabid, seething dog when he went to Cliff's apartment but Pam beat him there. That was cringeworthy and so too was the Haileyville debaccle for Larry (and many more honourable mentions).

 

[Victoriafan3]

Gosh can’t win on here. Someone states she wasn’t on that many magazine covers (when she certainly was!) and the someone else criticises her as to why she was on so many?! I give up. And Linda Evans was on loads of covers too so you must be saying that about her aswell

 

[Yesterday from the Beatles]

Sue Ellen was the definition of insanity....doing the exact same thing over and over and expecting different results. Drinking, having an affair, drinking, having an affair....so let's not even compare sanity levels. I don't recall Pam shooting her husband prior to her psychiatrist visit.

I agree. But, for me, it was more expected from Sue Ellen to be like that because of all those toxic things she had, but Pamela started winning and being unhappy long before Bobby became a jerk.

I don't think anyone would believe that Joan didn't crave magazine attention lol.

Lol. Ok. You win. I agree.

Gosh can’t win on here. Someone states she wasn’t on that many magazine covers (when she certainly was!) and the someone else criticises her for being on so many. I give up

We are all very different here.

 

[Billy Wall]

For me, Sue Ellen does more with her eyes than Pamela with her entire body.

Also, what's the thing with Pamela being independent and strong ? Independent because she worked in a boutique, or because, later on, Bobby gave her that fitness center ? Strong? She had more problems with sanity than alcholic Sue Ellen. And Bobby was never JR. Honestly, for me, Sue Ellen was far more strong. Ok, she repeated her failings (which is actually a pretty realistic thing) BUT BUT, let's look at Pam and let's look at Sue Ellen. Was it easier to be independent and strong with Bobby or with JR, with Pam's mother and brother, or Sue Ellen's mother and sister? Also, wasn't Bobby the conscience and the heart of the show, how come Pamela? He was mostly calming her down and giving her whatever she wants. But for Pam, nothing was enough. She had Bobby, not enough I need a mother. She had a mother, not enough I need babies etc... Sue Ellen for those little crumps from JR or Dusty was far more grateful than Pam for all the love she got. We are all different I know, and, for me, there's only 1 MISS TEXAS 1967!

Well said. Nice to see someone call out Pam. She wasn't nearly as strong as they implied she was.

 

[Jimmy Todd]

Well said. Nice to see someone call out Pam. She wasn't nearly as strong as they implied she was.

These are valid points. Pam and Linda were both extremely important to the show. However, for me, the show didn't feel like Dallas anymore after Pam. Bobby was important to Dallas, and his departure was a loss. However, with the proper mourning period among the characters and Pam in the Ewing Oil office, it also felt like a shot in the arm for the show. The season after Pam left, it felt like the soul of the show was gone. Of course, the show was getting older, plots were getting tired and a few others had left as well.

 

[Yesterday from the Beatles]

Well said. Nice to see someone call out Pam. She wasn't nearly as strong as they implied she was.

Thanks. I mean I like Pam. But, for me, she was more sensitive and fragile (most of the time) than strong and independent. Plus compared to Sue Ellen she had more "normal" chances to be happy, but she rarely was.

 

[Jimmy Todd]

Thanks. I mean I like Pam. But, for me, she was more sensitive and fragile (most of the time) than strong and independent. Plus compared to Sue Ellen she had more "normal" chances to be happy, but she rarely was.

One of the key things that made Dallas so great was that even though the characters were wealthy, beautiful and lived glamorous lives the writers imbued them with humanity that exhibited layers to their behavior that made them relatable. The battle for Ewing Oil season displayed this the best, which made it such compelling viewing. The scene in which JR calls out Pam for her own behavior and her giving him one of the best slaps in SoapLand was brilliant.

 

[Laurie!]

Thanks. I mean I like Pam. But, for me, she was more sensitive and fragile (most of the time) than strong and independent. Plus compared to Sue Ellen she had more "normal" chances to be happy, but she rarely was.

I think the writers struggled writing for female characters on DALLAS. I also firmly believe the CBS and Lorimar execs refused to allow Victoria to have the scripts she and viewers craved....it was a boys club. It's the only way to explain why Pam didn't go toe to toe with JR when Bobby "died". ..Victoria's contract was over next season and they couldn't let her become too important.

Patrick has made "jokes", wink, wink about Victoria standing in his light and commented how others were so gracious to give him light, etc. I honestly think he's speaking in man code and he really means Victoria stole his spotlight/attention when they shared scenes. We all know an actor stands on a little piece of tape or wherever their director tells them to stand. So if Victoria stood "in his light", it was because she was where she was supposed to be...not an act of selfishness. So, when Patrick returned, it was at the expense of every current female cast member and future one....they were forever doomed to be needy, whiny dames who needed to be saved by Bobby or fired from the show.

As for Pam having more normal chances to be happy...I disagree. Sue Ellen got away and could have easily been happy.

Pam grew up knowing her mother abandoned her, had a drunken father and had the misfortune to fall in love with a grown ass man who refused to move out of his Mommy and Daddy's home....worse, was expected to eat breakfast and dinner with a brother-in-law who hated her and was constantly trying to wreck her marriage.

 

[Chris2]

In the lead up to Bobby proposing again to Pam, she told him that they should have gotten their own place instead of living at Southfork during their first marriage. “It would have been better for us,” she said. And when Bobby did propose, he mentioned that they didn’t have to live at Southfork.

But when they did remarry, they moved right back to Southfork.

 

[Laurie!]

In the lead up to Bobby proposing again to Pam, she told him that they should have gotten their own place instead of living at Southfork during their first marriage. “It would have been better for us,” she said. And when Bobby did propose, he mentioned that they didn’t have to live at Southfork.

But when they did remarry, they moved right back to Southfork.

I understand all of them living at Southfork in the first couple seasons to establish the family dynamic but there really wasn't a need for it later on in my opinion.

Heck, Bobby even kept it up with his other spouses....and there's certainly no reason to believe April wouldn't have become even more of a whiny, damsel in distress if Sheree had stayed and they made it past their honeymoon phase.

 

[Billy Wall]

had the misfortune to fall in love with a grown ass man who refused to move out of his Mommy and Daddy's home....worse, was expected to eat breakfast and dinner with a brother-in-law who hated her and was constantly trying to wreck her marriage.

Misfortune to marry a wealthy man? No one forced her to marry Bobby and live in a house full of people that hated her family. Most people couldn't or wouldn't have done that.

 

[LMLDallas78]

I think the writers struggled writing for female characters on DALLAS. I also firmly believe the CBS and Lorimar execs refused to allow Victoria to have the scripts she and viewers craved....it was a boys club. It's the only way to explain why Pam didn't go toe to toe with JR when Bobby "died". ..Victoria's contract was over next season and they couldn't let her become too important.

Patrick has made "jokes", wink, wink about Victoria standing in his light and commented how others were so gracious to give him light, etc. I honestly think he's speaking in man code and he really means Victoria stole his spotlight/attention when they shared scenes. We all know an actor stands on a little piece of tape or wherever their director tells them to stand. So if Victoria stood "in his light", it was because she was where she was supposed to be...not an act of selfishness. So, when Patrick returned, it was at the expense of every current female cast member and future one....they were forever doomed to be needy, whiny dames who needed to be saved by Bobby or fired from the show.

As for Pam having more normal chances to be happy...I disagree. Sue Ellen got away and could have easily been happy.

Pam grew up knowing her mother abandoned her, had a drunken father and had the misfortune to fall in love with a grown ass man who refused to move out of his Mommy and Daddy's home....worse, was expected to eat breakfast and dinner with a brother-in-law who hated her and was constantly trying to wreck her marriage.

Dallas was always a boys club, Victoria was loved by Leonard Katzman though and had some demands agreed to.

Although Sue Ellen managed to leave the first time, there was no way she was going to find true happiness, JR wouldn't allow it and would have her followed and get rid of any suitors. Dusty distanced himself from her after THAT put down by JR about his impotence. Clayton felt something for her that wasn't reciprocated, he denied it when she asked him about it, then later expected her to have known how he felt!
She was hit on by her friends husband and a "date" that a friend had arranged.
The revisited relationship with Cliff was still only to get back at JR (from both of them) and when they did really fall for each other, it was always destined to fail.

Sue Ellen grew up without a father around, a mother who showed little love and raised her to marry only for money and position. Her sister hated and was jealous of her and she married a man who used her, in her own words as a "verbally abused punching bag".
We know Sue Ellen was no angel and at times could give as good as she got, but her pattern of behaviour could be seen as believable for someone in that position. Linda Gray played it superbly.

 

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

I’m in the Pam camp.

Pam was the yin to JR’s yang, it was their rivalry and hatred for one another that drove the story for its first several seasons.

When Bobby “died” it was a loss, but it was still DALLAS, the original plan was for Bobby to die in season 1 leaving Pam to face up against JR and the Ewings alone, they of course changed their minds but the idea of a JR vs Pam scenario was to have eventually happened in season 9.

Bobby’s returned ruined everything, and yes while it was nice having him back with Pam, it ruined the credibility of the show.

Pam’s departure hurt the the show far more than Bobby’s in my opinion.

 

[Barbara Fan]

I cant comment on any other country but in the UK Victoria came second to Princess Diana in the magazine cover stakes and outnumbered her Dallas co stars and those in other soaps - if anyone came 3rd it was Liz Taylor

 

[Laurie!]

Misfortune to marry a wealthy man? No one forced her to marry Bobby and live in a house full of people that hated her family. Most people couldn't or wouldn't have done that.

I don't think Bobby being wealthy man really mattered to the Pam character. I think it was to be believed (and the actors chemistry reiterated that) it was love at first sight and he just happened to be wealthy.

If Bobby had suddenly become poor, I think we can assume Pam would have stayed with him and still loved him. If JR had lost his fortune, we can assume Sue Ellen would have left him finally. So no, I don't have empathy for SE and don't believe for a second she couldn't have left him if she'd wanted to.

Your same logic for nobody forcing Pam to live at Southfork can be used for SE as well. The difference is, people call Pam whiny for complaining, leaving and expecting better treatment but feel SE was a poor victim for staying and becoming a female JR.

 

[DarkVader]

The character of Pam Ewing as first written and intended was the show's female lead. The role/series was actually written for Linda Evans who at the time was under contract to Lorimar. Evans had an option to refuse the role if she didn't want to do it, which is what happened. The script then made the rounds in Hollywood in the hopes of casting another actress in the role. Victoria's actress friend got a hold of that script, read it and found that the character of Pam would be a good fit for Victoria. She then brought it to her attention. When Victoria read it she found that she had a connection with the character and that her friend was right, so she submitted herself for the audition under the guise that she was sending in one of her clients - Victoria was working as a talent agent and on her way to study entertainment law at the time - she auditioned for the role, won them over and got the part. The rest, as they say is history.

Victoria at the point had been in the business for about a decade, but was always "under the radar" - aside from her movie debut in John Huston's "The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean" - which by the way earned her a Golden Globe nomination for "Best Newcomer of the Year 1972" her movie career was spotty. She followed that up with the woefully misguided "The Naked Ape", "Earthquake", "Vigilante Force" and "I Will, I Will For Now" - aside from "Earthquake" all those other films tanked at the box office. She became extremely frustrated with her career at this point and decided to become a talent agent with the hopes of going back to school to become an entertainment lawyer. The only reason she got back into acting is that she found she missed it when she played a role on the pilot to "Fantasy Island" as a favor to Aaron Spelling, who lured her by saying her salary on the show would pay her first year's school tuition.

Victoria, has led a very interesting life - and at the time she made the scene in the early 1970s she was thought of as a party girl - she dated quite a number of men back then and let's say her reputation was not one of the best. Hollywood is a small town and people talk. "Dallas" not only saved her but saved her career and turned that reputation around for the most part. Her business savvy and knowledge of entertainment law is what led her to eliminate the clause in her "Dallas" contract which stated that Lorimar/CBS would own the rights to her likeness. This is why she is the only cast member who had book deals, television movie deals and exclusive product endorsement contracts outside of the show. No one else in the cast did.

She may not have been the greatest actress - but I've seen worse (I'm looking at you Priscilla Beaulieu Presley) - and she handled the character of Pam beautifully - especially during the show's early run when Pam was gutsy, fiery and full of spirit. The change in her character does not lie with Victoria but with the writers. I am sure that it must have led to some frustration on her part but by then the show was a blockbuster and being the smart woman that she is she was gonna milk the success of that show for all it was worth until she felt it was time for her to leave - - - ON HER TERMS.

And THAT'S why I love Victoria Principal.

 

[Billy Wall]

I don't think Bobby being wealthy man really mattered to the Pam character. I think it was to be believed (and the actors chemistry reiterated that) it was love at first sight and he just happened to be wealthy.

If Bobby had suddenly become poor, I think we can assume Pam would have stayed with him and still loved him. If JR had lost his fortune, we can assume Sue Ellen would have left him finally. So no, I don't have empathy for SE and don't believe for a second she couldn't have left him if she'd wanted to.

Your same logic for nobody forcing Pam to live at Southfork can be used for SE as well. The difference is, people call Pam whiny for complaining, leaving and expecting better treatment but feel SE was a poor victim for staying and becoming a female JR.

But the difference was, we all knew money and status was important to Sue Ellen. Miss Ellie even said it to JR once and we all know Sue Ellen's mother. Pam on the other hand was supposed to be the polar opposite. She just conveniently falls into money. You can say if Bobby became poor that she'd continue to love him. Maybe. Who knows with Pam? She obviously had no problem dumping poor Ray for the wealthy Bobby Ewing.

And let's not kid ourselves, as time went on, she was no different than the rest of the Ewing's who thought money was the answer to everything.

 

[DarkVader]

And let's not kid ourselves, as time went on, she was no different than the rest of the Ewing's who thought money was the answer to everything.

In all of the years I've watched the show I never ever got that vibe from her character. Yes, she appreciated her wealth - remember, she grew up poor, but that she thought that it was the answer to everything? Certainly not.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

In all of the years I've watched the show I never ever got that vibe from her character. Yes, she appreciated her wealth - remember, she grew up poor, but that she thought that it was the answer to everything? Certainly not.

I didn't get the feeling that she was money-obsessed or anything, but I did feel like any trace of the poor childhood on the wrong side of the tracks was gone by the time she was living in the fabulous house with the pool with a maid and Christopher part time. That lifestyle seemed very matter of fact for her, as if it had always been that way. At least Cliff still had his Chinese takeout!