"Valley of the Dolls" vs "Mommie Dearest" vs "Dynasty"

[Snarky Oracle!]

Part 2:

 

[Ked]

It amazes me how many connections there are between "Peyton Place" and "Valley of the Dolls." Heck, there's even this connection:

 

[RandallAdams]

Everybody was hellbent on calling the Barbie movie camp, even though it was completely self conscious in its satirical intentions and so the complete antithesis of what camp actually is. I agree that MOMMIE DEAREST is the pinnacle of camp because it had earnest ambitions to study Joan and Christina's relationship in a way that was sympathetic to both, but Faye's depiction of Joan's narcissism was so fanatical and intense that it made her extreme behaviour and numerous perversions entertaining to watch, which perhaps undermined the original intention.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Everybody was hellbent on calling the Barbie movie camp, even though it was completely self conscious in its satirical intentions and so the complete antithesis of what camp actually is. I agree that MOMMIE DEAREST is the pinnacle of camp because it had earnest ambitions to study Joan and Christina's relationship in a way that was sympathetic to both, but Faye's depiction of Joan's narcissism was so fanatical and intense that it made her extreme behaviour and numerous perversions entertaining to watch, which perhaps undermined the original intention.

But Christina points out that Dunaway's version of Joan wasn't any more extreme than the real Joan. Just different. That the movie portrays a glamorous woman who just wanted to be obeyed, but in real life there is no placating the abuser.

 

[ClassyCo]

Christina said that "only the makeup" was the same between the real Crawford and Dunaway's silver screen "Crawford".

 

[RandallAdams]

But Christina points out that Dunaway's version of Joan wasn't any more extreme than the real Joan. Just different. That the movie portrays a glamorous woman who just wanted to be obeyed, but in real life there is no placating the abuser.

MD should have been a TV movie of the week and I think people would have been much fairer on it. Making what was basically a domestic story into a feature film somehow heightened its ridiculousness and gave the movie a claustrophobic feel. Faye had all this energy, all these poses, and was basically confined to the mansion for the most part, performing 'Joan' for the kids and the staff. I mean, it was eerie in that sense, like watching a caged animal lashing out, whose only comfortable habitat is in a public exchange. When she is deprived that, she instantly becomes a nutcase.

 

[ClassyCo]

One thing I always look out for concerning MURDER, SHE WROTE is which guest stars appear in the episodes. It's fun seeing who will show up next, and where you recognize them from.

Sometimes I think the guest stars are a tad underused, but that maybe my own biases. I watched an early Season 2 episode last night and I was disappointed how little they used Cyd Charisse, but, y'know, everyone can't have the big roles.

 

[Ked]

One thing I always look out for concerning MURDER, SHE WROTE is which guest stars appear in the episodes. It's fun seeing who will show up next, and where you recognize them from.

Sometimes I think the guest stars are a tad underused, but that maybe my own biases. I watched an early Season 2 episode last night and I was disappointed how little they used Cyd Charisse, but, y'know, everyone can't have the big roles.

There's a youtube channel called "Pushing Up Roses" that does reviews on MURDER, SHE WROTE, along with several other TV shows. The woman who does them is very good, you might enjoy it:

 

[ClassyCo]

There's a youtube channel called "Pushing Up Roses" that does reviews on MURDER, SHE WROTE, along with several other TV shows. The woman who does them is very good, you might enjoy it:

Oh yes. I've seen these. We've discussed them earlier in this thread. I wish she did more of them.

 

[Ked]

Oh yes. I've seen these. We've discussed them earlier in this thread. I wish she did more of them.

Ah, cool. And yes, I wish the same. X)

 

[ClassyCo]

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Yes, I mentioned in another thread about recently watching the season 6 finale with a friend and being embarrassed by it's amateurish tone, and ineptness. It makes it camp, but in a terrible way, and it's not all Joan's fault. In fact sometimes she's the only thing making it work while all around her is utter lunacy, played deadly straight.

When prepping for 1986's too-close-to-what-it's-parodying miniseries FRESNO, Terri Garr observed that "Joan Collins is the only one that knows what she's doing" amongst the '80s nighttime soap casts. And a few months later, as Season 7 continues the endless DYNAST-ic stumble, TVGuide correctly asked how long could Joan Collins be expected to keep afloat the sinking series all by herself.

And they were right, or mostly.

None of DYNASTY's flaws were Collins' fault -- which is, if you think about it, an amazing statement... How bad does your production -- or your genre -- have to be in order for Joan Collins to be not simply the best element in it, but the veritable life-preserver of the whole damned thing??

Yes, Donna Mills knew what she was doing, too. But she was doomed to find herself in a show that was consistently good. Which is a totally different thing -- and therefore almost doesn't count. It almost isn't even fair!

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

BTW: Lee Grant is almost 100 years old -- yet another Leo Rising woman who lives forever.

 

[Lankershim Blasdel 1]

Lee Grant just turned 100, she’s sharp as a tack,
Still directs her own projects and is on the right side of history. She is 100 but deeply cares about the direction this country is going down.
She was gorgeous in her younger days and would have made a great vengeful ex wife.
Total opposite of the selfish, ignorant, friend of crazy James Woods.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Lee Grant just turned 100, she’s sharp as a tack,
Still directs her own projects and is on the right side of history. She is 100 but deeply cares about the direction this country is going down.
She was gorgeous in her younger days and would have made a great vengeful ex wife.
Total opposite of the selfish, ignorant, friend of crazy James Woods.

Grant was born in 1924 ???

 

[Lankershim Blasdel 1]

Lee celebrated her birthday a few months ago,
She lives in NYC and is thriving
I know people who attended

 

[Lankershim Blasdel 1]

Lee was actually age appropriate to play Alexis who had 2 kids in their mid twenties in 1981. She like Jessica Walter were believable looks wise to play PSM’s mother.
It was creepy to have had Alexis be 17 years old when she married Blake, especially with all the men she was supposed to be “involved” with before she married him.
A slut at 15 I guess, JC was perfectly cast

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

It was creepy to have had Alexis be 17 years old when she married Blake, especially with all the men she was supposed to be “involved” with before she married him.
A slut at 15 I guess, JC was perfectly cast

Lots of women got married at 17 in the 1950s. No one thought anything about it -- especially since it was 'assumed' she was a virgin on her wedding night.

Collins, despite her image in her teens, was a serial monogamist (as she herself has said, and I believe her). Her sultry looks established her as a seductress before she was even 20, but it was only an image. And she played to it.

Actually, I highly suspect that Linda -- between marriages -- discretely "got around" more than Joan ever did. (And good on her!)

 

[Lankershim Blasdel 1]

The writers got lazy apparently, so Alexis who’s a virgin married Blake when she was 17, I don’t think they ever wrote how old Blake was, John looked 10 years older than he was anyway. Was he hanging around high schools? First Cecil says to Blake she introduced them then it changed to she left Cecil after he introduced her toBlake. Two men who had to be in their 30’s at the time
So then they start creating relationships for her that happened before she married, she was involved with Cecil Colby, King Galen and Ben.
Did she even finish high school, how did she have the time and where was she living if she got involved with a Mediterranean Prince, Denver Colorado?? The writing made no sense.
Then all of a sudden half her family was living in Colorado when she was young, why??
At least CW Dynasty had Grant and Nicolette as the same age and she was mid 50’s when she appeared on the show as was he. Appropriate ages for people who had 2 children in their mid 20’s

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

The writers got lazy apparently, so Alexis who’s a virgin married Blake when she was 17, I don’t think they ever wrote how old Blake was, John looked 10 years older than he was anyway.
So then they start creating relationships for her that happened before she married, she was involved with Cecil Colby, King Galen and Ben.
Did she even finish high school, how did she have the time and where was she living if she got involved with a Mediterranean Prince, Denver Colorado?? The writing made no sense.
Then all of a sudden half her family was living in Colorado when she was young, why??

Oh, for Alexis, that part of it made sense. Skank-monster since puberty.

Quite unlike Collins.