Sons & Daughters Watching/rewatching/discussing The Aussie Hit Show

Willie Oleson

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I read it that she's managed to justify it so well into the hardwiring of her brain that she not only views it as harmless, but she almost feels she's providing a service in keeping both Rob and Paul happy
That's certainly the gist of it, but it happened in a time span of half an episode. Rather than growing into that state of mind it felt more like a spur-of-the-moment decision.
It's not the situation itself that's unbelievable, but how they get from point A to B.
Of course I enjoyed the sheer audacity of it all, and like I've said before I mostly remember John and Angela as the show's goody-two-shoes, therefore all this scandalous stuff feels like a big, nice bonus.
If I got a euro for every time she says "sorry" I'd be "living like God in France", as we say in this neck of the woods.
 

Mel O'Drama

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That's certainly the gist of it, but it happened in a time span of half an episode. Rather than growing into that state of mind it felt more like a spur-of-the-moment decision.
It's not the situation itself that's unbelievable, but how they get from point A to B.

I see what you mean, and you're absolutely correct.


If I got a euro for every time she says "sorry" I'd be "living like God in France", as we say in this neck of the woods.

I'm sure it would be very easy to come up with some kind of S&D drinking game based on the characters' habits and expressions.
 

Willie Oleson

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I'm sure it would be very easy to come up with some kind of S&D drinking game based on the characters' habits and expressions
Speaking of games, I'd love to do a Sons & Daughters top 10 like Ome did for Dallas, but we'd all need to finish the series first before that could happen.
And then there's the number of participants, I have no idea how many forum members have watched/are watching the Aussie hit show.
I'll put the idea in the fridge, as it were.
 

Mel O'Drama

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Speaking of games, I'd love to do a Sons & Daughters top 10 like Ome did for Dallas

Great idea and I'd love to do that. Just recently I'd wondered what my favourite storylines were going to be at the end this time round. The idea of covering a number of different categories for S&D Top Tens is very appealing to me. And we have the prefix, so we might as well use it. ;)


but we'd all need to finish the series first before that could happen.

This could be a bit of a challenge.


And then there's the number of participants, I have no idea how many forum members have watched/are watching the Aussie hit show.

I reckon we could wrangle half a dozen up no problem.


I'll put the idea in the fridge, as it were.

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Victoriafan3

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Count me in for that! Jill’s my fav, especially in 1983 it was Ro and her show :) the soap viewer polls from 1982-1985 always had the same four Australian actresses (not counting the US soaps)

1. Rowena W
2. Penny Cook
3. Anne Tenney
4. Kim Lewis

As for hunks, for me only Mark Conroy (Glen Young) was in the league of Warren Blondell and boy o boy was Mark gorgeous! His first few scenes were all in heavenly swimwear :)

Leila was a top notch actress too. It was a great ensemble cast. Stephen Comey won a Logie award for best Newcombe in ‘83 and Ian Rawlings won one in ‘85 for best actor

Rowena deservedly a Logie each year she was on.

You guys have got me watching it again on you tube. Good acting lasts decades even if the look is dated.
 

Mel O'Drama

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#296

There’s a bit of a lag going on at times, perhaps perfectly encapsulated by the first half of #292. We cut between deep and meaningful talks between Jill and Wayne over their relationship; Fiona being typically possessive and control freakish about Jill’s decisions; Kevin and Lynn navel gazing in hospital corridors; Beryl nagging David to communicate with his son.

But these lulls are only fleeting. Some new arrivals have stirred the pot nicely. None of them are particularly great characters in isolation, but each has brought a degree of antagonism with them. Tony - David’s cellmate - has turned out to be more interesting than he first appeared. As previously mentioned, he’s kind of replaced Peter Healy as the Palmers’ ward, but with the twist that nobody apart from David can stand him. The relationship between he and Kevin is particularly fractious and has driven Kevin to sulk, frown and shout a lot. They’re not good colours on him.

Kevin’s now left to stay at The Terrace where Lynn was already living with the man she had an affair with in Europe. That’s another newcomer, Phillipe Souchon. Phillipe is a good match for Lynn. Dull he may be, but Phillippe is also French, which means he is a chef of Raymond Blanc proportions. And he’s swiftly transformed The Terrace from a humble coffee shop into a Michelin 3-star restaurant or something.

Naturally, nobody knows about the affair and Lynn being Lynn wants everyone to like each other, but more importantly she wants them to like her. So she’s still being nice to everyone and giggling lots, even though she’s now dumping her son onto people she hardly knows so she can go out with Phillippe. The response to Davey’s pneumonia has been very irritating. Everyone is blaming Tony who was babysitting him. And in turn David for bringing Tony into their lives. But nobody’s mentioned that Lynn had prioritised shopping with her lover, which was why Tony was looking after Davey in the first place. In fact Lynn and Kevin are more united than ever. That’s human nature, I suppose.

The Morrell family has grown with the arrival of Stephen’s daughter Amanda. As Barbara’s spoilt niece who latches on to John, Amanda is the spiritual successor to Prue Armstrong. But with much bigger hair. Unlike Prue, Amanda intensely dislikes Patricia. It looks like a promising battle-in-waiting. So much does she resent her new stepmother that Amanda has happily allowed Tony and his friends to burgle their house and then covered for them. I have a fondness for Amanda as one of the characters I remember being present when I began watching regularly. Alyce Platt is certainly very glam and it doesn’t seem to go unnoticed by the writers. Her first main scene had her parading round in a skimpy bikini while confronting John who wore just blue briefs. Bizarre.

Speaking of things Morrell, Samantha has already been name checked. In fact I think she got mentioned before Amanda. A rare case of planning far ahead, it seems. We’ve also heard numerous mentions of Stephen’s first wife - Amanda’s mother - though not by name. And ditto with Stephen referring with awe and dread to “Mother”. But more on her very soon. Oh - and the infamous Morrell apartment has made its debut. This will be the setting for some classic confrontations in the coming years. I can’t wait!

The final new arrival has really kicked things into overdrive at Woombai. Terry Hansen. This is another storyline I read in novelisation before seeing on TV, but I’ve been surprised by how quickly things have moved with it. Revisiting this storyline has highlighted what an unusual treatment of rape - and in particular a rapist - this is. Terry is really difficult to peg. On the surface he could be mistaken for a cipher, there to serve the story. He committed the rape in only his second episode, bragging about it to a mate in his third. So he was brought in as an antagonist and the villain of the piece. That should be the end of that, but there have been some surprises. We’ve got to watch him interact with his parents, the adoring son. We’ve watched him get hopeful over an apparent job offer from Fiona, and confused when she is still angry at him. There have also been satisfyingly grey attempts at amends, with Terry half apologising to Jill and Fiona, more than once. Interestingly, he’s not apologising for his actions, but for the fact that he mistook her for someone who in his eyes was fair game. It’s twisted and ugly, but having spent time with the character it makes some kind of sense that this is how he sees it, and as a viewer it’s possible to understand his confusion that Jill and Fiona don’t want to know him.

With this storyline I'm not sure what statement the powers that be are trying to make about rape. But perhaps the point is there isn't one. Maybe I've been indoctrinated to expect it to be a Very Special Episode type issue by the producers and actors who try to justify the subject's often sensationalist inclusion in storylines with the expected comments about awareness raising, research and suchlike. It seems the S&D writers are being fairly transparent about the subject simply being another way to create drama. Just as they've made no attempt to make a statement about incest or suicide other than to use it for drama's sake.

That said, I must add that Kim Lewis has done some great work with emotionally traumatic scenes for Jill, even though this angle has been mostly dropped somewhat in favour of a return to more traditionally soapy fluff of triangles and blackmail.

Attached to this storyline, Wayne’s latest scheme is an all-time low for him. Gaslighting Aunt Fiona in order to have a clear run at Jill is showing a hitherto unseen sociopathy to the character. The whole plan stretches the concept of the end justifying the means to the limit. The means, after all, involve breaking the hearts of an elderly couple and visiting the home of Jill’s rapist and trying to get him a job on Woombai so that… well, I’m not actually clear. The plot is vaguely nonsensical in its tortuousness. Here he has been handed once in a lifetime information which would blow Fiona out of the water and drive her to distraction. But that’s too simple. Instead he creates a whole alternative universe with character backstories and everything.

The scenes with Terry’s parents have been unexpectedly moving. In particular, Kati Edwards plays Mrs Hansen with such genuine warmth and vulnerability that it’s almost painful to watch. She and Les Foxcroft play their scenes with complete truth. The characters don’t know they’re simply part of an elaborate revenge plot. All they know is that they are afraid they will lose their only child to someone else. It would also be easy to believe that the actors have simply read their own lines and thought they were in a far more earnest and sombre production. They’re so likeable and sweet that I actually felt a kind of relief when it was clear Wayne wasn’t going to tell Terry the truth (for now).

The end of #294 saw Fiona having a one-sided conversation on the telephone as her search neared an end while sentimental piano music played. For a moment it seemed she was about to tell Jill she’d bagged a copy of J. R. Hartley’s Fly Fishing, instead of the somewhat more prosaic soapy news that her dead baby seems to be alive.

John temporarily joined forces with Patricia, becoming her new protégé, and gladly plotting with her to freeze out Paul during a dinner party. How things have changed since his infamous first dinner with Patricia back at the beginning of the series.

Stephen quickly saw what was going on and intervened to a degree. Stephen seems really switched on in most areas actually. Like spotting Amanda's lies to the police. But what makes him really fascinating is that it's hard to tell if he is revulsed by such behaviour or struck with a form of admiration. His reaction to Paul's outburst towards Patricia was equally inscrutable. I'm enjoying the challenge of trying to work out what's going on under the surface with Stephen.

If we were to graph characters by the quality of their relationships or how rich, successful and/or happy they are, Patricia’s would be absolutely wild. Like her dramatic recovery from the nervous breakdown at the beginning of the season (which, to the series’ credit still feels like it’s hovering over things like a dark cloud). And her sudden wealth on marrying Stephen. #294 to #296 have seen another dramatic peak and trough in the life of Patricia. The writers set the scene perfectly with Patricia wandering into The Terrace kitchen and gloating to Beryl (with dialogue that mirrored a similar speech Beryl made to Pat in Season One):
You and David never thought I’d get back on my feet, did you? I bet you loved it. Can hear you now: ‘Patricia’s finally got what’s coming to her.’ Well I have. A good marriage. Both my children. And money. I hope you get job satisfaction, Beryl. You haven’t got much else to be satisfied about.

Within two episodes, Pat’s been disowned by John and Angie and shows up drunk at a swish party Stephen is hosting, making a spectacle of herself in front of guests including Barb, Gordon and Wayne, before making a little speech and collapsing to the floor in hysterical tears. It’s classic Pat. Pathetic and sympathetic at the same time. I’m no expert on camp, but this scene seems as close as anything we’ve seen so far to it.




Matt Kennedy seems to be everywhere suddenly. As a character he’s mildly interesting. As a doctor he’s somewhere between unethical and perverted. His omnipresence, post-amnesia makes little sense, which I think is why I’m finding it difficult to take to him.

Although he seems to have disappeared now, I’ve started to get Dr Feelgood a little after a nice exchange with Patricia:
Pat: "I find it very difficult to accept ethics as an excuse from somebody who tells a brother to make love to his sister. How much do you want?"
Matt: "You’re really living up to your reputation, aren’t you?"
Pat: "As what?"
Matt: "It has four legs, a tail and breathes fire."
Pat: "Get out."
Matt: "OK. I offered you my best wishes earlier. I should’ve offered them to Mr Morrell. He’s gonna need ‘em."
 

Mel O'Drama

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Mention of the end credits reminds me - although you may already know - that the credited makeup artist, Patricia Hutchence, was the mother of Michael Hutchence.

Immediately beneath Patricia in the credits is the hairdresser... Danielle DeGroot. Based on very little I've convinced myself she's the daughters of Myra. Unless DeGroots in Australia are like Joneses and Williamses here.

Google isn't helping me here. It seems there's a reality TV type person named Danielle DeGroot who wasn't even born when these episodes aired but seems to be rather better known than hairdresser DeGroot.
 

James from London

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Looking back at page 1 of this thread, I see I first posted my Patricia Hutchence factoid there! I'm up to Episode 13 and it's great stuff. I'm liking the homely, supposedly dull domestic scenes in Melbourne a lot more this time around. Apart from Susan, who's kind of lifeless, the Palmers are great.

I found these notes I wrote about some later episodes during my last (aborted) re-watch nearly ten years ago! I think I've probably mellowed a bit since then:

Episodes 41/50

Bill goes on trial for the murder which took place in Episode 1. Having done a spectacularly crap job of testifying in his own defence, he is found guilty of crimes against acting and given a life sentence. The whole thing's over in an episode and a half, and the main point of interest is that his lawyer is played by Steven Morrell, Patricia's next husband.

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Charlie is as terrible as I remember--she has a habit of singing her lines as if they were jingles--but she does provide Patricia with a sounding board and makes her laugh, which gives her (Patricia) another, more human dimension.

David, subconsciously envious of how well Pat's done for herself, grows discontented with his lot and wants to move to a bigger house. This makes Beryl - essentially Val Ewing trapped inside Kath Brownlow's body - insecure. Isn't our life of domestic drudgery and the occasional box of squashed marshmallows enough? she argues. Almost, but not quite, he replies.

John and Angela come clean to David about their incestuous feelings. He takes a couple of minutes to adjust, but then he's absolutely fine about it.

Kevin and Lynne marry, which is nice ... and boring. Mostly boring. Lynne is pretty, but boy is she moany and droney in the way that only women in cheap Australian soap operas can be. Speaking of which, that Susan's a miserable cow: So your new husband's locked up on a murder charge and never wants to see you again - get over it. Angela's a good egg and I can tolerate Jill, but overall the girls on SONS AND DAUGHTERS don't have the fizz and pep that Kylie and Plain Jane would have on NEIGHBOURS only a few years later. The S&D chicks just sort of lumber around, whining.

Wayne's accident has left him paralysed. An odd choice on the part of the writers perhaps: it seems a bit soon to disable your main bad boy.

The writers come up with the ingenious idea of a nationwide transport strike that affects all the characters--the Hamiltons in Sydney, who employ a transport division (or something), and the Palmers in Melbourne, dependent on David's job as a trucker. Interestingly, the bad guys, Patricia and Wayne, are revealed to be anti-union, while everyone else is more sympathetic.

With David out of work, Fiona suggests Wayne employ David as a labourer on the new riding school he is building at Woombai. David agrees, ostensibly to provide for his family, but really to be near Patricia.

Patricia celebrates the fiftieth episode by inviting the good guys--David, John and Fiona--over for a barbecue. This brings David and Gordon face to face for the first time. There is tension between David and Gordon because of Gordon's decision to employs scab workers during the strike, albeit with a heavy heart. John also strongly disapproves. Meanwhile, Patricia must decide whether or not to wear her sexy new dress (a gift from Charlie) in order to seduce David. A last-minute attack of conscience puts her in frumpy slacks. Gordon is unaware of this but nonetheless rounds off the party by asking Patricia for a divorce.

51/60

It's interesting how much more reactive Patricia is in these early episodes: it's Gordon who initiates the divorce and David the affair. And it's surprising how close she and Wayne are, considering they'll end up trying to kill each other on a weekly basis. Wayne doesn't want her and Gordon to split, and so suggests she come with him and John to Woombai to oversee the riding school project, in the hopes that a bit of distance between her and Gordon might change his mind about the divorce. After Sydney and Melbourne, Woombai is the third key location on S&D - a sort of rural neutral ground where disparate characters can interact.

Woombai is also home to Rosie the housekeeper, played by the reliably irritating Ann Haddy, aka Granny Helen from NEIGHBOURS. For one surreal moment, I was sure Haddy had blacked up to play Rosie as an Aborigine, but it turned out to be the outdoor lighting. It's at Woombai that Patricia really comes into her own as a ball breaker. In order to assert her authority over the workmen (which include David), she compensates for her lack of experience by cracking down hard on them, sacking the first bloke who wolf-whistles at her. Meanwhile, working together at Woombai allows David and John to do some father-son bonding for the first time.

David and Patricia do all that "fighting their feelings for each other" stuff until the transport strike is called off and David prepares to return home. But the sight of him swimming in his underpants proves too much for Pat and their affair finally begins. We start seeing a more vulnerable, unguarded side of her as she and David fall in love all over again. Ahh. They even have a game of table tennis--can you imagine Joan Collins playing ping pong? Back in Melbourne, Beryl, blissfully unaware of Patricia's presence at Woombai, inadvertently facilitates the affair by suggesting David stay on a while longer to spend more time with John.

Running alongside all this juicy drama is a subplot about Mick Taylor arranging for his sick kid to meet a man in a kangaroo costume. This feels kinda weird: So far S&D has focused on the intertwining Palmer and Hamilton families, but now it randomly expands to include Mick, his kid and his permanently bad-tempered estranged wife, played by the original, boggle-eyed Pippa from HOME AND AWAY. Suddenly it seems like anyone who has a son or a daughter or has ever been a son or a daughter, is eligible for inclusion in the drama.

Who cares about some terminally ill kid who's obviously going to make a miraculous recovery when there's so much other juicy stuff going on? But then all the natural laws of soap opera are broken when the boy abruptly dies on the operating table. And if this were not shocking enough, the doctor who fails to save boggle-eyed Pippa's son is played by boggled-eyed Pippa's first HOME AND AWAY husband Tom.

Having started to put two and two together about David and Patricia, Beryl unchains herself from the kitchen sink long enough to visit Woombai to investigate. She even rides a horse! While Patricia plays the perfect hostess in front of her, David all but goes to pieces with guilt. One glance at the two of them together tells Beryl all she needs to know - but she keeps quiet about it. Eventually, in a very exciting scene, she confronts Patricia who finally stops playing nice and reveals her ruthless side.

end_057.jpg


Without letting on to David that she knows the truth, Beryl heads home to bake cakes and wait for him to choose her out of love. Patricia immediately starts scheming and manipulating to make David choose her. When Charlie suggests she ask for Woombai in the divorce so that she can use it to attract David, it all starts getting very Abby and Gary (even though Abby wouldn't have wanted Gary if he was a mere truck driver). Back in Sydney, Gordon and Barbara - whose unseen husband is conveniently overseas -- start gravitating towards each other.

In other news, Wayne has impotency issues, but it's hard to get excited about that. Ironically enough.

Episodes 61-70

After being really upset about his dead kid for a whole two episodes, Mick is given a good talking to by Beryl. This cheers him up and he leaves the show.

Meanwhile, everyone else ricochets between Melbourne, Sydney and Woombai: Patricia sends John back to Sydney so she can be alone with David at Woombai; David chooses Beryl over Patricia at the last minute and returns to Melbourne (a good thing too as Beryl's had her hair done and wiped down the kitchen surfaces especially); Gordon then goes to Woombai where Rosie tells him about David and Patricia's affair; Angela, depressed about the dead kid in Melbourne, returns to Sydney hoping for some low-level incest with John, which coincides with Gordon sending Patricia back to Sydney in disgrace. Angela freezes Patricia out (although she knows nothing of her affair with David) and feels excluded herself by John's relationship with Barbara's posh niece Prue.

Then Fiona comes to Melbourne to stay with the Palmers after splitting up with Comb-over Guy (an old flame and the father of her baby who supposedly died), and Kevin overhears her and Beryl talking about David's affair with Patricia. He's gutted. "Buzz off or I'll flatten ya!" he tells his dad.

end_068.jpg


While visiting Woombai, Barbara receives word that her husband has died of a Hugh Mortimer-style overseas heart attack. Luckily, Gordon is on hand to provide a sympathetic moustache. Back in Sydney, Patricia vows to get back at David for dumping her and schemes to keep her kids by her side. In an excellently uncomfortable scene, she drunkenly tries to persuade John not to go back to Woombai and Angela not to return to Melbourne. She's such a complex soap villainess: smarter than Sue Ellen, more vulnerable than Abby, more sympathetic than Alexis.

end_069.jpg
 

Mel O'Drama

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Looking back at page 1 of this thread, I see I first posted my Patricia Hutchence factoid there!

That may explain where I'd got that titbit from before.


I'm up to Episode 13 and it's great stuff. I'm liking the homely, supposedly dull domestic scenes in Melbourne a lot more this time around. Apart from Susan, who's kind of lifeless, the Palmers are great.

Oh great. I'm glad you're getting stuck in.


I found these notes I wrote about some later episodes during my last (aborted) re-watch nearly ten years ago! I think I've probably mellowed a bit since then

These are really hitting the spot, James. The Kath Brownlow comment had me laughing even before I Googled to see who she was.
 

Willie Oleson

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#263

Bert's off-screen exit - it happens on Fiona's answering machine - made me feel relieved and melancholic at the same time. It's funny how that works, appreciating a character because he's no longer there.
Can't say the same of Beth, I really hated to see her go now her real self and her impostor alter ego were morphing into one character, and I can only imagine how delightfully messy things were about to become.
She's got that raw, wrong side of the tracks appearance that I've always like in Cassie Yates, and I thought she was an asset to the cast of Sons & Daughters.
But I guess the whole point was how it would reflect on Wayne - and indeed, if you can make an opportunistic con artist feel bad about herself…

David's dyed hair (sometimes it looks like a wig!) becomes an increasingly irritating distraction, I need to find a way to deal with it. Does anyone know the number of the S&D helpline?

Rob and Doug show up at Woombai, it's an entertaining, action-packed episode full of deceit and aggression, and a wedding proposal squeezed in for good measure.
Trivia: Rob has the ugliest shouting voice, and Paul looks even more handsome with a black eye.
Fiona acts all outraged and upset, but we know she loves playing the referee in other people's drama.

Jill and John have a nasty break-up scene, I know I shouldn't feel sorry for Jill but his words (in true Healy-style) are particularly vicious, eventhough it's obvious that he only says it to pay her back. I don't think we had seen this vindictive side to him before.
Furthermore, given his history as the innocent murder suspect (and the way David treated him at that time), I find it interesting that he's the only one who doesn't believe in David's innocence.
Add to that the fact that he's no longer putting up with Patricia's woe-is-me attitude, and it looks like he's become his own man now instead of being someone's son or brother.
So now it's Sons & John & Daughters. ha-ha.

The ongoing money problems (as in, scraping by) can be a little draining sometimes. I mean, it worked for the driver's strike and the Woombai story, but the coffee shop shenanigans don't provide any substantial drama.
Seeing Beryl and Patricia working together triggers memories of the light-hearted animosity between Anne Matheson and Claudia Whitaker.
But then Rob comes to my rescue and shows her the door. Good, it's not Patricia's kind of environment anyway.

A dashing psychiatrist (a Stephen Collins lookalike) gets a proper introduction, which means he's arrived to soap things up rather than take the sting out of the situation.
Angela's inconvenient memories is a clever twist as it allows the writers to unleash a series of (seemingly) shocking events.
*trembles*
 

Mel O'Drama

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She's got that raw, wrong side of the tracks appearance

I was surprised to find that Julie Hamilton never appeared in Prisoner, as that series is populated almost entirely with Beth Newman types. She's got the perfect Prisoner look and sound.



David's dyed hair (sometimes it looks like a wig!) becomes an increasingly irritating distraction

Either I've got used to David's hair or it's toned down a little between your viewing point and mine. John's on the other hand has replaced it as an increasingly irritating distraction. Now he looks like a human Ken doll. Or Brian Tilsley.

Even worse, John's bleached barnet is getting a heck of a lot of freeze frames. And he only has two facial expressions at this point in the series.



Rob and Doug show up at Woombai, it's an entertaining, action-packed episode full of deceit and aggression, and a wedding proposal squeezed in for good measure.

It's a classic, isn't it? I'm watching episodes in the early 300s now, and the fight/proposal scene has had a couple of nostalgic mentions recently.



Jill and John have a nasty break-up scene, I know I shouldn't feel sorry for Jill but his words (in true Healy-style) are particularly vicious, eventhough it's obvious that he only says it to pay her back. I don't think we had seen this vindictive side to him before.
Furthermore, given his history as the innocent murder suspect (and the way David treated him at that time), I find it interesting that he's the only one who doesn't believe in David's innocence.
Add to that the fact that he's no longer putting up with Patricia's woe-is-me attitude, and it looks like he's become his own man now instead of being someone's son or brother.
So now it's Sons & John & Daughters. ha-ha.

Since John's returned from the Air Force I've found it really difficult to take to him. When I was at the point you are now, I said this of him:

John has become one of the series' less sympathetic characters on his return. He's got a new assertiveness to him, which should be interesting. But it turns out that the naivety is an essential part of his character and he's quite unlikeable without it. The main reason is that it seems to highlight the limitations to Peter Phelps's acting range. New John shouts. A lot. And it's no fun to watch as a viewer. Not, sadly, in an uncomfortable, challenging type of way. It's just a little irritating and tedious. It's also taken away the complexity of the triangle with Jill and Brian. I felt more concern for John's feelings when he was off-screen.

My view has softened a little since then, but in general I'm still not feeling John and at this point his presence still feels a little forced.
 

Willie Oleson

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I was surprised to find that Julie Hamilton never appeared in Prisoner
Oh...I just assumed she did.
Since John's returned from the Air Force I've found it really difficult to take to him. When I was at the point you are now, I said this of him (....the naivety is an essential part of his character)
I don't disagree with you, but maybe the younger male soap character is a difficult type to write for.
I wonder if these young men, for better or worse, are supposed to grow up, unlike their female counterparts who can always rely on damsel/heiress in distress storylines until they're old enough to become ex-husband torturing divas.
Maybe it's a sexist thing to say, and I'm just thinking aloud here.
Also, I think there's something bittersweet about the loss of soap-innocence.
 
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Mel O'Drama

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Oh...I just assumed she did.

Same here, until I looked on IMDb. Of course, there's always the possibility she did appear and it's simply not listed. But the Prisoner fans seem a very thorough bunch, so I'd be surprised.


Maybe it's a sexist thing to say

Not at all. Or at least I don't think so. It's an interesting point you make, and I think a valid one.


Also, I think there's something bittersweet about the loss of soap-innocence.

Yes indeed. And watching it play out gives us a taste of how Beryl must feel pretty much all day long.
 

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Last week I watched the first episode of Prisoner because Richard Channing suggested it for our next watch (it's twice the running time of Knots Landing, is that even doable?) and quelle surprise! there was Peta Topano from Return To Eden fame (and shame).
I'm not sure if I could enjoy a soap with only female characters, but it's a huge cult hit so there must be something good about it.
And there was a handsome doctor but I don't know how important his role is.
 

James from London

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there was Peta Topano from Return To Eden fame (and shame).
The Duchess of Branagh is in it as well. I really tried, but I couldn't cope with Prisoner. Give me Oz any day.
 

James from London

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Was it not addictive enough?

It might have been that. I want to say it was too grim, but then OZ was grim and I loved that. But it was grim and slow and cheap. I don't necessarily mind grim or slow or cheap, or some combination thereof, but maybe all three at once is just too much.
 

Carrie Fairchild

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With this storyline I'm not sure what statement the powers that be are trying to make about rape. But perhaps the point is there isn't one. Maybe I've been indoctrinated to expect it to be a Very Special Episode type issue by the producers and actors who try to justify the subject's often sensationalist inclusion in storylines with the expected comments about awareness raising, research and suchlike. It seems the S&D writers are being fairly transparent about the subject simply being another way to create drama. Just as they've made no attempt to make a statement about incest or suicide other than to use it for drama's sake.

I haven't seen these episodes yet but writer Bevan Lee talks about the storyline in a book I have (as quoted below in bold) which may give you some insight into why it's playing out as it is.

It was certainly stressful when Fiona discovered her long mourned son Terry Hansen wasn't really dead, so scriptwriter Bevan Lee decided to experiment with a bit of audience manipulation. 'I don't look back on it with pride,' says Lee, 'but I had a bet with someone that I could turn a rapist into a hero within ten weeks. So Terry Hansen raped Jill Taylor.
 

Alexis

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I came here to brag about reaching episode 104. Then seen that everyone is still over 100 episodes ahead of me.
 

Mel O'Drama

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I'm not sure if I could enjoy a soap with only female characters, but it's a huge cult hit so there must be something good about it.
I really tried, but I couldn't cope with Prisoner.
But it was grim and slow and cheap. I don't necessarily mind grim or slow or cheap, or some combination thereof, but maybe all three at once is just too much.

It is fairly grim. In fact it's dark in every sense of the word (the lighting, as I recall, leaves much to be desired. But I recall a fair bit of location shooting as well). I knew ahead of time it was cheap from the reputation for wobbly sets.

All the same I started watching some early-ish episodes many years ago (I think it was round about 100 episodes into the series). I was quickly hooked and watched it regularly for a year or so, having to record the episodes because they were usually shown at around midnight on a school night. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I can't remember how or why I stopped watching. Maybe I got burnout from the gloom, or perhaps I lost track with it changing times and days and being on in the early hours. All I know is that I never made it to the arrival of The Freak, an era that seems to be revered by fans as a golden age.
 
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