Would You Take Back The Later Years?

[Bobby Southworth]

It seems there is a lot of disdain for the last five or so seasons of Dallas. If you could, would you have the show wrap up earlier and sacrifice all the story lines from later seasons? Or are there some plots from the last few years that you feel shouldn't be missed? I know there have already been threads on how the show should have ended, and when, but I'm just curious, if the choice were to be given to sacrifice the last 3-5 seasons of the show for it going out more on top, or in it's prime- would you do it?

I'm going to say no; Part of my reason being that I didn't become a fan until the 11th season was airing. I caught the reruns of earlier years, and loved them, but I also enjoyed the new shows, up until probably the very last season. I still watched the last year, but found the show less exciting, and you could really tell it was winding down.

While I hate the way that the Pam character was written out of the series, I do think there were some story lines after that point that deserved to be seen. However, I can also understand why so many people turn their noses up to the later years. However, Cliff becoming human again, and the transformation he went through during season 11 was nicely done. His character had really lost it's way, especially right after Pam awakened from her dream. I also thought the story line pertaining to the tanker collision, and oil spill in season 13 was worthwhile.

 

[James from London]

I'd keep it all too. The whole thing is the whole thing. You can coulda woulda shoulda all the livelong day, but it happened, all of it. Even the year that didn't happen happened. It's a fascinating artefact.

 

[Rove]

Ideally my preferred ending would have been with Swan Song with Bobby flat-lining but only if the rightful Miss Ellie was present. If Dallas had stopped there I would have been left wanting more. Dallas however is a constant thorn in my side or similar to when we receive a splinter. Annoying little thing if left there but when extracted I feel a sense of enjoyment.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

If we'd have the power to take back the later years then we'd have the power to fix them.

 

[Bobby Southworth]

For me, season 10 would have been the ultimate ending, if they could have wrapped it up with Pam getting pregnant, but that's not what they did, and I enjoyed enough of the later years to say they still should have existed. As I said, I could have maybe done without the very last season.. it seemed that they simply went on because they had the contract for one more year, but it was a painful season, that didn't seem consistent with how the characters were written.

 

[Chris2]

I think the overall theme of the later years - the Ewing empire crumbling and the family scattering - is actually a realistic one. No one stays on top forever. But if you’re going to go that route, then you have to have more interesting stories. And I don’t think the writers planned it - they were forced down that road due to cast departures.

Later “Dallas” should have had a more wistful tone to it. Instead, they went the comedy route.

Someone else mentioned the idea of J.R. redeeming himself in the later years of the series. That was actually proposed - J.R. was going to “chill out” and Sue Ellen was going to become “downright evil”. This was in 1988 - the same time they floated the idea of making the episodes self-contained, and retitling the show The New Dallas.

 

[Rove]

I think the overall theme of the later years - the Ewing empire crumbling and the family scattering - is actually a realistic one.

A great concept and one I would have traveled with especially if it involved JR. His absolute approach to having it all inevitably drove his loved ones away - one by one. In the end whether he had obtained both Southfork and Ewing Oil or lost both it would have justified the ending in The Decline and the Fall of the Ewing Empire.

 

[Werewillie Oleson]

the same time they floated the idea of making the episodes self-contained

I know that because LH & LG mentioned it in an interview.

and retitling the show The New Dallas

But I had no idea that this was actually going to be a spin-off!

 

[Kenny Coyote]

It seems there is a lot of disdain for the last five or so seasons of Dallas. If you could, would you have the show wrap up earlier and sacrifice all the story lines from later seasons? Or are there some plots from the last few years that you feel shouldn't be missed? I know there have already been threads on how the show should have ended, and when, but I'm just curious, if the choice were to be given to sacrifice the last 3-5 seasons of the show for it going out more on top, or in it's prime- would you do it?

There is a lot of disdain for the last few years of Dallas and I think most of it comes from people having seen what the show was capable of being. Knowing it could have remained that good and seeing it fall so short of the mark, caused that feeling.

I think the first 8 years were great. The next two were fairly good. Seasons 11-13 were suspect, and season 14 was...less than that.

I wouldn't have wanted it to end earlier because I always had the option to stop watching if I wanted. I think "going out on top" is overrated anyway. Legacy and and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee just about anywhere.

I think the overall theme of the later years - the Ewing empire crumbling and the family scattering - is actually a realistic one. No one stays on top forever. But if you’re going to go that route, then you have to have more interesting stories. And I don’t think the writers planned it - they were forced down that road due to cast departures.

Later “Dallas” should have had a more wistful tone to it. Instead, they went the comedy route.

I would have preferred that to the comedy route.

Watching the whole thing crumble for the last four years might be realistic, but I don't know that it's necessarily enjoyable to watch. Taking something that's already been built and then tearing it down is the least creative direction to take. It' a lot easier to destroy than build.

Someone else mentioned the idea of J.R. redeeming himself in the later years of the series.

Yes I did. That's the more challenging direction to take and the one I'd find more rewarding. If JR becomes a better man, then there would be less conflict within the family, so it would need to come from an outside source. There needs to be someone who is capable of providing a genuine threat so that it stays interesting. I think Jeremy Wendell was that man. I would have brought William Smithers up into the main cast. They never had a character who had both the desire and the ability to pose the threat to the Ewing family that Jeremy Wendell did, or an actor any more capable of convincing the audience that he was that guy - the one who not only would, but could bring that level of harm.

Bring William Smithers into the main cast after Patrick Duffy left, and I think they'd have been less inclined to bring Bobby back and wipe out not only a whole season, but their credibility along with it.

They'd have had the unique situation of JR and Pam both having to learn to work together if they'd have any chance of keeping Westar from either destroying or taking over Ewing Oil. You'd have three main characters, none of whom naturally like either of the other two, in the central conflict. Two of these people are eventually going to join forces against the other. Can JR show Pam that she's much better off trusting him than accepting the financial security of taking Wendell's money? It's a situation where we see if JR and Pam can figure out a way to do what JR and Bobby never did - to complement each other instead of fight each other - to protect the company they both want to be able to leave to their sons.

 

[Miss Texas 1967]

I have to say no. I'm rewatching the show now and the decline in quality is evident just in how binge worthy the episodes are in comparison to earlier seasons, that being said though, the later years do have their moments and aren't as terrible as I remember them being. Some characters were absolutely pointless in the later years (looking at you Clayton and Miss Ellie) but others are sort of enjoyable in a way that's different to why you liked characters in the first half of the series (I'm liking Cally and April a lot but in different ways to the way I liked Sue Ellen and Pam).

We got what we got, I think the problem is the writing got lazy. I don't know if Larry and Patrick had too much control over what their characters were like or whether there was something weird going in the background, but the sharpness of the psychology of the characters was dulled later on.

On the topic of self contained episodes, I think I'd dislike it more if they'd done that. I didn't like the style of self contained episodes at the start of the series and the show really gains something special when it becomes an ongoing, developing plot.

 

[Swami]

Pam's exit obviously caused a problem in that the character's departure was deliberately left open-ended. So from point of view end of season 10 would have been a more fitting finale for the show.

Having said that, for all the show's problems in the last few series (woeful newcomers to the show who simply were incompetent, that is the kindest thing you can say; making JR a pushover; lack of decent storylines for the likes of Miss Ellie), there were still many good moments.

More effort should have been made to retain the likes of Linda, Susan, Steve and others who were either let go or left of their own volition.

Swami

 

[Piggyrella Sanderson]

As I said before, back in the 90s, when the show finished in Spain, I did a 4-hour special edit of the whole series (lost now, I guess) which ended with Bobby & Pam´s reconciliation (nothing else from Swan Song), Sue Ellen leaving John Ross with JR (Dream Season) and, finally, everybody attending their second wedding. It was corny, I know, but I actually didn´t need much more.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

I'd keep it all too. The whole thing is the whole thing. You can coulda woulda shoulda all the livelong day, but it happened, all of it. Even the year that didn't happen happened. It's a fascinating artefact.

I just can't get on board with this quality-no-longer-matters mindset. It's not real life, after all. If we're saying that all eras of the show when the writing was crappier are just as valid, then we can't praise the periods when show was excellent or even point out that they were. Having reasonable standards for the show's storytelling isn't coulda/woulda/shoulda. Are we going to say every show ever on TV is "just great" simply because they exist?

Even Larry admitted that the last couple of oldDALLAS seasons "weren't up to par" and Patrick said they "lost objectivity about what qualifies as a good story" towards the end.

 

[Rove]

On the topic of self contained episodes, I think I'd dislike it more if they'd done that. I didn't like the style of self contained episodes at the start of the series and the show really gains something special when it becomes an ongoing, developing plot.

Agreed.

If we'd have the power to take back the later years then we'd have the power to fix them.

In my continuation I'd seek out that white ceramic dog (the one sitting patiently next to Miss Ellie) and give it prominence in the Southfork living room to put a smile on your face Snarky.

 

[stevew]

Ideally my preferred ending would have been with Swan Song with Bobby flat-lining but only if the rightful Miss Ellie was present. If Dallas had stopped there I would have been left wanting more. Dallas however is a constant thorn in my side or similar to when we receive a splinter. Annoying little thing if left there but when extracted I feel a sense of enjoyment.

Good spot but I’d end with season 7 and Bobby shot and on the floor - very similar to the height of the show’s fame, with who shot JR - that’s if I were writing my ideal continuation say in 2024, 40 years later. I personally wouldn’t exclude anything but that’s as good a spot as any, if I had my way. I’d use the rest, the movies, and TNT footage in bits and pieces to recreate the 40 year history, as well as anything Dallas related on Knots Landing the following year, including Bobby dying. I’d begin my new show in 2024 with a flash back to 2010 and John Ross alone at his father’s grave. I’d then add in Bobby’s grave. Then I’d flash forward to 2024 and:

John Ross Ewing III (45) Jock role, owning 1/2 an expanded Southfork and controlling the company, JRE Industries

Amanda “Amy” Mavis neeAnderon Ewing (39) Miss Ellie role, vary traditional housewife, with her own Punk and Mavis Anderson (grandparents) inheritance, including owning 1/2 of Southfork, including land which came from her grandparents

John “Jay” Ross Ewing III (21) the Bobby role, working the oil fields for Ewing Oil, fresh out of college, a handsome lady’s man

Eleanor “Ellie” Mae Ewing (20) the JR role, except she doesn’t work, she’s more into behind the scenes running of things like her father, spoiled, snobby and sophisticated

Lucas Wade Krebs (39) - the Digger role, Ray and Jenna’s son, mention his sisters Charlie (adopter by Ray, raised with Jenna) and Margret Krebs (raised with Donna), owns his father’s Krebs Ranch, was in love with Amy, hates John Ross for “swindling” him out of a business deal and stealing Amy

Christoper Willard Ewing (43) - the Punk Anderson role, John Ross’s cousin and best friend, large shareholder in JRE, President of the Company, John Ross’s top lieutenant, still trying to be friends with Lucas

Blake Wendell Krebs (39) Cliff Barnes role, married to Lucas, daughter of Jeremy Wendell, President and CEO of the Trident Corporation, the descendant of WestStar, hates all the Ewing’s

Jeremy Wendell Krebs (21) Pamela role, adopted by Lucas (calls him Lucas), from Blake’s first marriage, friends with Jay and Ellie, in love with Jay, in law school, torn between the Ewing Krebs feud

Marilee Stone (20) Sue Ellen role, Jay’s girl friend, Marilee Stone’s granddaughter, the most beautiful woman in Texas, works at at Art Museum

I think the overall theme of the later years - the Ewing empire crumbling and the family scattering - is actually a realistic one. No one stays on top forever. But if you’re going to go that route, then you have to have more interesting stories. And I don’t think the writers planned it - they were forced down that road due to cast departures.

Later “Dallas” should have had a more wistful tone to it. Instead, they went the comedy route.

Someone else mentioned the idea of J.R. redeeming himself in the later years of the series. That was actually proposed - J.R. was going to “chill out” and Sue Ellen was going to become “downright evil”. This was in 1988 - the same time they floated the idea of making the episodes self-contained, and retitling the show The New Dallas.

I like idea - Sue Ellen going full on evil and JR bring more like Jock in the series.

 

[Werewillie Oleson]

It's not real life, after all

But with it continuous and open-ended narrative I think it kind of is.
And soap operas, like real life, are unpredictable and also a balance between good and bad quality. .

then we can't praise the periods when show was excellent or even point out that they were

But why not? The first thing that springs to mind when someone mentions a soap opera is everything I liked about it. My favourite characters, my favourite scenes.
It's fun to bitch about the things we don't like, but since we can't change them, questions like this thread title only (unnecessary) adds to the frustration.

The (mostly) unpopular Later Years Dallas doesn't retroactively affect the Glory Years, and Dallas the soap opera was never meant to be a complete, finished package so it's not like you could improve it by taking the bad parts away.
The only difference would be that it wouldn't have happened. Where's the fun in the non-existence?

Are we going to say every show ever on TV is "just great" simply because they exist?

Not "great", but "valid". Unless it's so extremely offensive that the only way to improve it is to remove it altogether. But I can't think of any tv series that made me feel that way.

 

[Barbara On A Broomstick]

The final season was dire, not Dallas in my book and hardly any of the original cast who made Dallas number 1 left in it

It was proof to me that Dallas wasnt the Larry and Patrick show and they couldnt carry it on their own (with a bit of Cliff) and getting too much power behind the scenes wasnt a great thing!

The 2 years before that were verging on second best and second rate, plots, stories and new Actors (cough) who werent fit to lick the books of Victoria, Steve, Susan, Linda etc and newbie actors and actresses that I often wondered how they got their Equity card - The Callys, Aprils, Michelles, Traceys, Tommys, etc left me cold

At the time I was glad for anything Dallas but older and wiser and with hindight, the last 3 seasons werent great and you had Barbara and Howard in silly storylines or MIA for weeks at a time which did not sit well with me. Dalals also had a great supporting cast of secondary actors, Katherine, Kristin, Afton etc - and they didnt have that either.

I rarley watch beyond S10 original and aagain, Victoria was one smart cookie, getting out before it became a shadow of the once great, addictive compulsive show it used to be. her leaving was the biggest single reason for its decline, It needed Pam Ewing and was a different show without her.

 

[Piggyrella Sanderson]

The final season was dire, not Dallas in my book and hardly any of the original cast who made Dallas number 1 left in it

It was proof to me that Dallas wasnt the Larry and Patrick show and they couldnt carry it on their own (with a bit of Cliff) and getting too much power behind the scenes wasnt a great thing!

The 2 years before that were verging on second best and second rate, plots, stories and new Actors (cough) who werent fit to lick the books of Victoria, Steve, Susan, Linda etc and newbie actors and actresses that I often wondered how they got their Equity card - The Callys, Aprils, Michelles, Traceys, Tommys, etc left me cold

At the time I was glad for anything Dallas but older and wiser and with hindight, the last 3 seasons werent great and you had Barbara and Howard in silly storylines or MIA for weeks at a time which did not sit well with me. Dalals also had a great supporting cast of secondary actors, Katherine, Kristin, Afton etc - and they didnt have that either.

Afton, really? I think Audrey is a megasweet lady but Afton...? Steal me awaaaayyyyy...

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Afton, really? I think Audrey is a megasweet lady but Afton...? Steal me awaaaayyyyy...

Oh, yes, Afton. She should have been brought back permanently and bounced back-and-forth between Cliff and Bobby.

 

[Piggyrella Sanderson]

Oh, yes, Afton. She should have been brought back permanently and bounced back-and-forth between Cliff and Bobby.

Not Ray? He had to "know" every girl in town sooner or later...:danc: