What were DALLAS' biggest errors?

What was DALLAS' biggest mistake?


  • Total voters
    27

Billy Wall

Telly Talk Dream Maker
If they weren't even giving him the creative control over his character to be able to demand "Stop weakening my character; keep JR strong " then why would you think that the executives were giving him too much power?

Do you have any links to something that would support this idea that even though Hagman didn't have the power to exert creative control over his own character that for some reason he was given a lot of power over the other aspects of the show?

Wasn’t Larry Hagman an executive producer?

As THE star of the show, don’t think Hagman didn’t have some power. Didn’t he pull a power move for more money? Wasn’t it his suggestion to make Ray a Ewing when Kanley was about to leave? According to what has been said, he was partially the reason they brought Duffy back. There’s probably more examples.

I’m not against Hagman having some say, but I think it’s a little naive to think he had no pull.
 
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Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
Wasn’t Larry Hagman an executive producer?

As THE star of the show, don’t think Hagman didn’t have some power. Didn’t he pull a power move for more money? Wasn’t it his suggestion to make Ray a Ewing when Kanley was about to leave? According to what has been said, he was partially the reason they brought Duffy back. There’s probably more examples.

I’m not against Hagman having some say, but I think it’s a little naive to think he had no pull.

Executive producer was offered to him and he said he wasn't qualified for that position. They replied that it was just a title that would increase his salary; he wouldn't actually be doing anything different than he had been. That's how I remember it.

Yes, he did pull a power move for more money but that was in between season 3 and 4. I thought we were discussing whether he had too much power in the waning years of the show. That's why it's being suggested isn't it? It's because the show got worse in those years. If the last 4 years of the shows had been the best 4 seasons of the show, who would be complaining that he had too much power at that time?

I haven't heard it was his suggestion to make Ray a Ewing but I liked that decision. It made Ray a more complex, interesting character. Do you remember where you found out about that?

I don't doubt he may have suggested they get his friend, Patrick Duffy back on the show, but the buck has to stop somewhere. There has to be one person who had the power to say yes or no to that idea, and I can't imagine why people would think Hagman was that person. I'd think the person with that power would be the one paying Duffy's salary, wouldn't it?
 

Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme
If they weren't even giving him the creative control over his character to be able to demand "Stop weakening my character; keep JR strong " then why would you think that the executives were giving him too much power?
Larry was the one who'd suggested JR losing everything -- he thought it was more interesting, to his credit.

Problem is, the show around him was so fractured that JR's fatigue in the later seasons was overshadowed by the series' fatigue and resulting silliness.
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
I think Mr Coyote frequently reveals confusion in his posts between the actor and the character.

Not at all. I hate having to repeat things but I was asking people why they think Larry Hagman had so much power over the show in general when he didn't have the power to exert the creative control over his character when they started making JR a weaker, watered down version of what he had been. When JR was a powerful, intimidating force who own much more often than he lost, JR was talked about worldwide and even on the cover of major magazines.. Dallas was the most watched show on TV.

When JR was hardly ever wining and usually losing, the audience didn't want to see that.. The ratings plummeted when JR began losing often and was relegated to the embarrassing Haleyville storyline and then being inept enough to get himself trapped in an insane asylum. If Hagman had as much power as you think, why wasn't he able to demand that they return JR to what he was when he was the most talked about TV character in the world?

JR was the equivalent of what in professional football you'd call "the franchise player." As goes the franchise, so goes the organization. When JR was winning, Dallas was the hottest show on TV. When he was turned into somewhat of a loser, Dallas was continually losing a good amount of their former audience. People enjoyed living vicariously over some so successful and powerful. They didn't want to I've vicariously when he was made into sort of a joke.. There is no way that Larry Hagman didn't realize any of that happened and didn't care.
 
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Chris2

Telly Talk Dream Maker
Larry wasn’t the showrunner, but he certainly had some clout, such as when he got Katzman reinstated and Capice pushed out. I also remember when some papers were reporting on Margaret Michaels being cast as Pam, and USA Today also reported that Hagman was “adamant” that there would not be another Pam in residence at Southfork.
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
Larry wasn’t the showrunner, but he certainly had some clout, such as when he got Katzman reinstated and Capice pushed out. I also remember when some papers were reporting on Margaret Michaels being cast as Pam, and USA Today also reported that Hagman was “adamant” that there would not be another Pam in residence at Southfork.

Take that with a grain of salt, as far as "when he got Katzmann reinstated and Caprice used out." Look at it objectively. The man or woman who pushed Caprice out and reinstated Katzmann is the person who paid their salaries. I mean, seriously, how can Hagman have gotten Katzmann reinstated? Did Hagman tell the network "I'm so adamant about this, I'm personally going to pay Katzman's salary"? Of course not. Hagman and other cast could make suggestions but the buck stops with the person who actually hires and fires show runners. The person who would have been responsible for paying Katzmann's salary is the person who got Katzmann reinstated.

AS for USA Today reporting "Hagman was “adamant” that there would not be another Pam in residence at Southfork" don't take that with a grain of salt. Take that with a 5 pound bag of salt. Clearly Hagman was "in character" when he said he was adamant there would never be another Pam in residence at Southfork. After all, JR may have hated Pam, but Larry Hagman certainly didn't mind Pam being in residence at Southfork. Hagman just loved looking at Pam's "buoys." I'm not talking about "water markers either." I mean "buoys" as in silicone flotation devices. BTW, they were the best money Victoria Principal ever spent.
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
Larry was the one who'd suggested JR losing everything -- he thought it was more interesting, to his credit.

I believe you've been misinformed about that. I'd need to see a link to some proof that Hagman suggested that change, or I'm saying calling it out for the bullshit it is. JR had become the most talked about TV character in the world. JR even got front page stories on magazines such as time that weren't in the habit of putting primetime soap actors on the front page. Think about that for a minute. Name even one other primetime soap actor who made it on to the cover of Time magazine. Can you name even one? Larry Hagman had a character that had become an icon. That word gets thrown around too easily, but in this case it's well deserved. Remember how the world was talking all summer long about who they thought JR. I haven't seen any TV character create that strong of an emotional reaction before or since.

You can look at the ratings when JR's character was presented as a very capable, intelligent, and powerful oilman that got all the other oilmen pissed off at him, scared of him, envious of him, or all three. The ratings when JR's character fit that description were phenomenal. Dallas was consistently in the top two highest rated shows on TV when his character was presented in a way that others in his industry were afraid of him because they knew he was a bad motherf***er. He got to the point where you couldn't even count the number of people who wanted him dead. That lead to the most successful storyline in Tv history and the episode where the attempted murderer was revealed set a record that stands to this day. I doubt anyone will ever break that particular record Dallas set.

Knowing all that to be true, knowing that common sense dictates that if something isn't broken, don't try to fix it, how believable is it to anyone reading this that Larry Hagman said "I'm playing a character that has captured the imaginations of more people than any TV character in history. Men want to be JR and women want to do JR. They say to themselves, yeah, he does live life on his own terms, the exact way he wants to live his life and that's cool. He's gotten all the oilmen in an uproar about what JR is doing but that's it - to paraphrase Mark Twain, JR is a lot like the weather: Everybody talks about him and complains about him, but nobody does anything about him. Kristin was the one exception but JR even survived her attempt to murder him.

They took a character that had become an American Icon, one that had led Dallas to set records as to how many people watched it, records that still stand to this day. And someone would have us believe that Larry Hagman would say words to the effect of, I'm tired of playing a character that is so ruthless and yet so competent and skilled at the oil business and has a gift of knowing how to get any woman he desires in bed.. He literally charms the pants off them and Larry hagman is tired of playing that character???

JR has so much going for him that a lot of the people in the audience live vicariously through him. They say to themselves: He does get everything he goes after and yeah, that is cool. He has the whole Texas oil industry outraged at him, and JR just smiles about that. There isn't one oilman whom JR fears. He's spent more money on spilt liquor than most of us earn in a year. He leaves more money in tips than we make in a year and yeah, that is cool. He's a kiiler in business, he has tons of women who desire him, he does whatever he wants living life on his exact terms and hell yeah, that's cool!

Men wanted to be him and women wanted to do him. What a phenomenon the character of JR had become. But that's not what Larry Hagman wants? He wants the writers to show JR as having very few or none of the above qualities? He wants to be portrayed as a loser and at times even a buffoon? Bullshit! That, as Scotty Demerest would say, stretches the imagination a bit too far.

You're willing to believe Larry Hagman wants to take a spectacularly successful character and weaken him? He wants the audience to stop living vicariously through him? He wants to go from the most feared, the most ruthless, and at the same time the most charming oilman you could ever imagine, and he wants to have JR become a loser who starts losing everything, his status, his reputation, his money, the lifestyle that money pays for and water down the character, weaken him, make him stop winning, making him lose his tremendous ability to get anything or any woman he sets his mind on. No, I don't think so!

Why does he want to take the most talked about, the most iconic character of our generation and turn him into a loser because he thinks the audience would find that would be more "interesting"? How dumb would an actor have to be to take something that successful, something that's legitimately a phenomenon and weaken him to the point where he's barely even recognizable? You want us to believe Larry Hagman wanted a character that had become the most talked about, most exciting character to ever cone along and have that character watered down, made ineffectual and relatively benign compared to the notoriety he had dedicated that last 10 years to creating? You expect me to believe Larry Hagman could be that damn dumb? Well, I don't believe it and I don't know how whoever started that rumor expected people to believe it.. That person must think Dallas fans are incredibly naive. I don't believe even a little bit of that and I'm amazed that anyone would think otherwise. I'm amazed that anyone would think that's a believable story. How naive do they think we Dallas fans are? It's just like I've said before: Yeah, I was born at night - just not last night.
 
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Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme
I believe you've been misinformed about that. I'd need to see a link to some proof that Hagman suggested that change, or I'm saying calling it out for the bullshit it is. JR had become the most talked about TV character in the world. JR even got front page stories on magazines such as time that weren't in the habit of putting primetime soap actors on the front page. Think about that for a minute. Name even one other primetime soap actor who made it on to the cover of Time magazine. Can you name even one? Larry Hagman had a character that had become an icon. That word gets thrown around too easily, but in this case it's well deserved. Remember how the world was talking all summer long about who they thought JR. I haven't seen any TV character create that strong of an emotional reaction before or since.

You can look at the ratings when JR's character was presented as a very capable, intelligent, and powerful oilman that got all the other oilmen pissed off at him, scared of him, envious of him, or all three. The ratings when JR's character fit that description were phenomenal. Dallas was consistently in the top two highest rated shows on TV when his character was presented in a way that others in his industry were afraid of him because they knew he was a bad motherf***er. He got to the point where you couldn't even count the number of people who wanted him dead. That lead to the most successful storyline in Tv history and the episode where the attempted murderer was revealed set a record that stands to this day. I doubt anyone will ever break that particular record Dallas set.

Knowing all that to be true, knowing that common sense dictates that if something isn't broken, don't try to fix it, how believable is it to anyone reading this that Larry Hagman said "I'm playing a character that has captured the imaginations of more people than any TV character in history. Men want to be JR and women want to do JR. They say to themselves, yeah, he does live life on his own terms, the exact way he wants to live his life and that's cool. He's gotten all the oilmen in an uproar about what JR is doing but that's it - to paraphrase Mark Twain, JR is a lot like the weather: Everybody talks about him and complains about him, but nobody does anything about him. Kristin was the one exception but JR even survived her attempt to murder him.

They took a character that had become an American Icon, one that had led Dallas to set records as to how many people watched it, records that still stand to this day. And someone would have us believe that Larry Hagman would say words to the effect of, I'm tired of playing a character that is so ruthless and yet so competent and skilled at the oil business and has a gift of knowing how to get any woman he desires in bed.. He literally charms the pants off them and Larry hagman is tired of playing that character???

JR has so much going for him that a lot of the people in the audience live vicariously through him. They say to themselves: He does get everything he goes after and yeah, that is cool. He has the whole Texas oil industry outraged at him, and JR just smiles about that. There isn't one oilman whom JR fears. He's spent more money on spilt liquor than most of us earn in a year. He leaves more money in tips than we make in a year and yeah, that is cool. He's a kiiler in business, he has tons of women who desire him, he does whatever he wants living life on his exact terms and hell yeah, that's cool!

Men wanted to be him and women wanted to do him. What a phenomenon the character of JR had become. But that's not what Larry Hagman wants? He wants the writers to show JR as having very few or none of the above qualities? He wants to be portrayed as a loser and at times even a buffoon? Bullshit! That, as Scotty Demerest would say, stretches the imagination a bit too far.

You're willing to believe Larry Hagman wants to take a spectacularly successful character and weaken him? He wants the audience to stop living vicariously through him? He wants to go from the most feared, the most ruthless, and at the same time the most charming oilman you could ever imagine, and he wants to have JR become a loser who starts losing everything, his status, his reputation, his money, the lifestyle that money pays for and water down the character, weaken him, make him stop winning, making him lose his tremendous ability to get anything or any woman he sets his mind on. No, I don't think so!

Why does he want to take the most talked about, the most iconic character of our generation and turn him into a loser because he thinks the audience would find that would be more "interesting"? How dumb would an actor have to be to take something that successful, something that's legitimately a phenomenon and weaken him to the point where he's barely even recognizable? You want us to believe Larry Hagman wanted a character that had become the most talked about, most exciting character to ever cone along and have that character watered down, made ineffectual and relatively benign compared to the notoriety he had dedicated that last 10 years to creating? You expect me to believe Larry Hagman could be that damn dumb? Well, I don't believe it and I don't know how whoever started that rumor expected people to believe it.. That person must think Dallas fans are incredibly naive. I don't believe even a little bit of that and I'm amazed that anyone would think otherwise. I'm amazed that anyone would think that's a believable story. How naive do they think we Dallas fans are? It's just like I've said before: Yeah, I was born at night - just not last night.
Frankly, you seem to live inside a kind of fantasy world -- about a fantasy world.

You think Larry believing it might be interesting to see what happened when JR loses everything -- as a story arc -- is somehow unthinkable because he supposedly wouldn't be willing " to take a spectacularly successful character and weaken him? He wants the audience to stop living vicariously through him?"

You do realize, don't you, that not every viewer idolized or "live vicariously" through the character of JR, don't you? I realize that you do, as your posts constantly reflect, but not every other viewer. Or is that "bullshit" too?

Larry also said that JR "was a disaster" as an oil man and lost the family business $2,000,000 over the course of the series... Now how does that fit into your imaginary view of that amalgamated Larry/JR character in your head? Or do I find you naïve enough to believe that, too?

Your post just kind of sounds sad and a little crazy.
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
Frankly, you seem to live inside a kind of fantasy world -- about a fantasy world.

You think Larry believing it might be interesting to see what happened when JR loses everything -- as a story arc -- is somehow unthinkable because he supposedly wouldn't be willing " to take a spectacularly successful character and weaken him? He wants the audience to stop living vicariously through him?"

You do realize, don't you, that not every viewer idolized or "live vicariously" through the character of JR, don't you? I realize that you do, as your posts constantly reflect, but not every other viewer. Or is that "bullshit" too?

Larry also said that JR "was a disaster" as an oil man and lost the family business $2,000,000 over the course of the series... Now how does that fit into your imaginary view of that amalgamated Larry/JR character in your head? Or do I find you naïve enough to believe that, too?

Your post just kind of sounds sad and a little crazy.

I'd need to see a link to some proof that Hagman suggested that change, or I'm still calling it out for the bullshit it is.
 

Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme
I'd need to see a link to some proof that Hagman suggested that change, or I'm still calling it out for the bullshit it is.
The above-poster seems to be correct -- you are unable to distinguish between JR and Larry. Larry was much more objective about JR than you are, it would seem.

And why does is so offend your sensibilities that an actor like Larry thinking that his fictional character of JR losing everything would be an interesting plotline?

It makes you sound kinda nuts.
 

Snarky Oracle!

Telly Talk Supreme
PS: and didn't that happen anyway on the show? This "weakening" of JR that Larry would, to your thinking, never allow??

Or do you assume Larry fought that tooth and nail? (Which he obviously didn't).
 

Michael Torrance

Telly Talk Mega Star
I'd need to see a link to some proof that Hagman suggested that change, or I'm still calling it out for the bullshit it is.

There can't be a link for every single thing published about soaps of the 80s when the internet was not even around commercially. People have uploaded a lot, but certainly not everything. But many of us here were reading magazines and newspapers covering them back when they aired. Additionally, the ultimate Dallas website, which had quite a wealth of information about the show, has been taken down for a while now.
 

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

Telly Talk Champion
For me, it was a tie between making Bobby's death a dream and the way Pam was written out of the show. However, Bobby's resurrection wins because I think that Bobby returning solidified Victoria Principal's desire to leave. She seems smart enough to see where the show was going and would want to go in another direction. In other words, the dream resolution led to Pam's exit.
If they had made the the focus of the season following Bobby's death Pam working alongside JR, they could have had a gold mine, imho:jum:

I firmly believe that's the real reason Victoria Principal left the show, the dream explanation for Bobby's return. I'm sure she had the foresight that the best years of Dallas were well & truly behind it and that is why she walked. :(
 

Seaviewer

Telly Talk Warrior
I almost answered Bobby's death being dismissed as a dream simply by reflex, but whatever short-term benefit Bobby's return may have had was surely squandered by the turn to camp in the later seasons, and that would include the clumsy way Pam's exit was handled.
 

TJames03

Banned
Donna Reed as Ellie, Dallas becoming Dynasty, the Dream, VP’s exit and the mishandling of Pam’s exit and everything after.....
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
Donna Reed as Ellie, Dallas becoming Dynasty, the Dream, VP’s exit and the mishandling of Pam’s exit and everything after.....

I had an advantage there. I'd never seen Dynasty so I didn't know. But if that's true that they were copying Dynasty that shows a serious lack of confidence on their part. Dallas was the trendsetter. The trendsetter doesn't copy other people. Other people copy the trendsetter.
 
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