J.R. & Gary

[Mustard]

Oh, I just dictate the typing and check for errors. It is less hard work! Anyway, that Dallas episode, Power Play, aired on January 4th 1980, the night after the airing of the Knots Landing episode, Community Spirit. In Community Spirit, Gary tricks JR and forced his big brother to change his drilling plans. JR refers to that episode from his hospital bed in the second episode of the next season of Dallas, when he mentions Karen Fairgate to Gary. JR was attracted to Karen and this was used to get JR out of the office, while Gary got into it and stole JR’s secret files. So from watching the Knots Landing episode, JR seems to have an even stronger and recent motivation in ensuring that Gary is out of his way in Power Play.
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On Dallas, four episodes after Power Play, in Second Thoughts, JR calls Gary and Valene as Lucy’s “scheming parents” and mentions that his brother Gary and his greedy wife will be swarming over him if Lucy stays in Dallas.

Yes, Gary finally bested J.R. in that episode, with the help of Valene and Karen, as J.R. was forced to abandon an offshore drill for a more expensive onshore drill. But J.R. turned it into his own positive by posing as some sort of "environmentally friendly" oilman in order to cut his financial losses.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Gary's faults are all there on Knots Landing, and how he gradually copes with them.

And this is the forum for...Dallas - The Original Series. Do I go to the Knots Landing forum and write about things that never happened on Knots Landing? No.

I also find it bizarre how you seek to paint J.R. as some sort of "anti-hero" instead of a villain, even an entertaining villain.

That's because you don't understand what an anti-hero is.

 

[J. R.'s Piece]

So, I recently re-watched Reunion Part 1 & 2 and it occurred to me how much they set Gary and J.R. up to have their own mini-feud, so much so that it really resembled Jock and Digger. There were even script repetitions from the mini-series - in Barbecue, Jock says Digger's "been a loser every day of his life" and J.R. says literally the exact same thing about Gary to Sue Ellen in Reunion Part 1.

It almost feels like J.R. hates Gary as much as he hates Cliff Barnes and I don't think their relationship ever improved as the series went on. It went far beyond a brotherly rivalry but what I don't understand is why

*I haven't watched Knots Landing so if there were any nice family scenes between J.R. and Gary then I haven't seen them before.*

JR helped split Gary and Valene up. As acknowledged by Bobby Ewing in the first episode of Knots Landing (also written by Knots Landing creator and Executive Producer David Jacobs, who had created Dallas)

And you have JR grabbing baby Lucy from Valene. This vid is posted by someone called Ome. That name rings a bell. It will come to me. From the Knots Landing episode, Will The Circle Be Unbroken. Which was also written by David Jacobs.

 

[Richard Channing]

That's because you don't understand what an anti-hero is.

Or because you don't understand what a villain is. You seem to be the only person on the board who doesn't agree that JR was a villain. But I guess you're right and we've all got it wrong.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Or because you don't understand what a villain is. You seem to be the only person on the board who doesn't agree that JR was a villain. But I guess you're right and we've all got it wrong.

Who is this "we"? Are you under the impression that you've been elected by everyone else on the board to act as their spokesman? You're convinced JR is a villain, right? OK, then tell me, on behalf of all the other posters here, who is the hero, or who are the heroes on Dallas?

 

[Richard Channing]

Who is this "we"? Are you under the impression that you've been elected by everyone else on the board to act as their spokesman? You're convinced JR is a villain, right? OK, then tell me, on behalf of all the other posters here, who is the hero, or who are the heroes on Dallas?

I'm not speaking on behalf of the other posters, it's just based on my observations on what seems to be the general consensus around here. As I said on another thread when we voted for our favorite villain on the Soapland battles thread JR won with a landslide victory. So yes, that does lead me to believe that the majority of members see him as a villain. Especially as you're the only one I ever hear saying that he's not.

As for your question about who are the heroes on Dallas, again it all boils down to this black and white view you have that everyone has to be either a hero or a villain and the audience roots for the heroes and are against the villain. That may be true of cowboys and Indians in Western movies, which you seem to think Dallas is, but (thankfully) Dallas is an ensemble of complex, multilayered characters, each with their own flaws and motivations. And the audience is free to root for whomever they choose. But clearly JR is your hero, and that's ok.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

As for your question about who are the heroes on Dallas, again it all boils down to this black and white view you have that everyone has to be either a hero or a villain

Untrue. I, and according to you, only I, subscribe to the view that JR was neither a hero nor a villain. He was an antihero. If having to define JR as either a hero or a villain constitutes black and white thinking, you've just demonstrated that "black and white view" is yours and not mine. You've placed JR into that very rigidly defined role of villain - I haven't.

But clearly JR is your hero

You're not very consistent are you? You were replying in response to my statement that JR is an antihero.

 

[Richard Channing]

Untrue. I, and according to you, only I, subscribe to the view that JR was neither a hero nor a villain. He was an antihero. If having to define JR as either a hero or a villain constitutes back and white thinking, you've just demonstrated that "black and white view" is yours and not mine.



You're not very consistent are you? You were replying in response to my statement that JR is an antihero.

As usual you'd rather sidestep the valid points I'm making by quibbling over semantics. Well, whatever it takes to be right I guess.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

As usual you'd rather sidestep the valid points I'm making by quibbling over semantics. Well, whatever it takes to be right I guess.

You think I'm sidestepping the "valid points" you're making? How did you refute the idea that JR is an antihero? Upon what evidence did you (or would you) base your argument?

Were these what you consider "valid points"?

You seem to be the only person on the board who doesn't agree that JR was a villain.

As I said on another thread when we voted for our favorite villain on the Soapland battles thread JR won with a landslide victory.

Those are based on nothing but mere opinion.

Maybe this was what you consider a valid point:

As for your question about who are the heroes on Dallas, again it all boils down to this black and white view you have that everyone has to be either a hero or a villain and the audience roots for the heroes and are against the villain. That may be true of cowboys and Indians in Western movies, which you seem to think Dallas is, but (thankfully) Dallas is an ensemble of complex, multilayered characters, each with their own flaws and motivations. And the audience is free to root for whomever they choose

The funny thing is, you describe Dallas as being made up of complex. multilayered characters, each of whom the audience may be pulling for or against, yet you insist that JR must be pigeonholed into the very rigid, easily definable role of villain! Don't you see how you're contradicting yourself?

 

[Richard Channing]

You think I'm sidestepping the "valid points" you're making? How did you refute the idea that JR is an antihero? Upon what evidence did you (or would you) base your argument?

Were these what you consider "valid points"?





Those are based on nothing but mere opinion.

Maybe this was what you consider a valid point:



The funny thing is, you describe Dallas as being made up of complex. multilayered characters, each of whom the audience may be pulling for or against, yet you insist that JR must be pigeonholed into the very rigid, easily definable role of villain! Don't you see how you're contradicting yourself?

JR was a complex, multilayered villain, as the best villains usually are. And because he was also a very charming and likeable villain most of the fans, including me, were rooting for him. There's no contradiction there. The issue is that you can't get your head round the idea that a villain is someone fans, including you, could or should be rooting for, which requires you to label him as something else and go out of your way to justify many of his actions. Anyway, I'll leave you to it!

 

[Willie Oleson]

JR's reaction at 1:55

 

[stevew]

Yes but does it make sense? Jock spoilt Bobby but he spent more time with JR (according to Miss Ellie) so it seems to me that JR got most of the quality time.
Furthermore, watching the first seasons I never got the impression that Jock was more generous towards Bobby and he often relied on JR's judgment, especially in family matters.

I feel Jock used JR and spoiling of Bobby was because Bobby never had to work to get what he wanted - he could make deals but the real work of getting down and dirty as Jock demanded wasn’t required. Jock pushed and pushed and pushed JR, then when it required something like mortgaging Southfork to accomplish JR gets slammed. He can do no right yet Bobby can do no wrong. Bobby can demand power and everyone gives it to him (even Jock despite his posturing in front of his friends). JR has to work for it against all odds.

 

[stevew]

Or because you don't understand what a villain is. You seem to be the only person on the board who doesn't agree that JR was a villain. But I guess you're right and we've all got it wrong.

Not to chime into someone else conversation, but myself and many others agree that it’s too simplistic to call JR a villain. For instance, JR goes against a clearly illegal cartel and sells cut rate gas to the public - the show shows him as the bad guy, and yes a lot to it. But the Cartel certainly weren’t good guys. What was wrong with mortgaging Southfork? I could make an argument that Miss Ellie was truly evil was refusing to drill for oil on Southfork. Our economy needs oil to function. The amount of oil under Southfork was considerable. There are many technologies even in her day to get at the oil and not destroy the land. Yet by not getting it companies like Ewing Oil have to engage in far risky off shore ventures. Furthermore, even if pumping that oil up was seen as greedy she could have set up a foundation and literally given billions to help people in need. There’s sort of an evil in her demand to horde the oil because of one man long since dead. It’s not so easy as to say JR is a villain despite what Bobby and Pam night tell you.

 

[stevew]

JR's reaction at 1:55

Contrary to Val’s belief, it wasn’t just JR ruining her romances. Lucy screwed them up pretty much of her own doing and part of it was probably the life style she was accustom to that none of her beaus lived up to. JR could be a bastard, no doubt, and certainly was a snob, but the truth is Val didn’t do very much to influence her daughter even in the moments where she did have a chance, despite her grand pronouncement here and her later considerable financial success of her own.

Btw way, Gary was right. Why should Val rise to JR’s bait. Let him talk. You only give him power when you feed into his taunting. A true evil villain doesn’t earn you what they’re going to do - they just do it. Gary knee just how to handle his brother. Wait him out until he’s burned himself out.

 

[J. R.'s Piece]

Btw way, Gary was right. Why should Val rise to JR’s bait. Let him talk. You only give him power when you feed into his taunting. A true evil villain doesn’t earn you what they’re going to do - they just do it. Gary knee just how to handle his brother. Wait him out until he’s burned himself out.

Well, JR is deliberately saying that stuff to test how true is Abby’s claim (a fib) that Valene is thinking of moving back to Dallas with Gary. Which JR doesn’t want. JR is also trying to find out if Sid is aware of Gary’s illegal business dealings in stolen auto parts being moved through Knots Landing Motors. Sid clearly doesn’t know. JR is in town for an oil convention and Abby has asked him to loan Gary $50000, using the excuse that without the money, Gary and Valene might move back to Dallas. Gary is aware that Abby was intending to go to JR for the money. Gary needs the money urgently to pay off Roy and Frank, who will come for him otherwise. At the same time, apart from wanting something for himself if he makes it easy for Gary to borrow the money, JR is getting interested in Sid’s engine, which forms the basis of JR’s next appearance. Also, Gary was then having an affair with the wife of the man he was sponsoring at Alcoholics Anonymous. Lucy got married on Dallas the following night.

 

[Willie Oleson]

Contrary to Val’s belief

I didn't mean his reaction to what was going on or what was being said. I just thought it was a priceless, funny JR moment. He was overreacting, but Larry Hagman wasn't overacting.
It makes him look like the stereotypical filthy-rich-but-unsophisticated-American-tycoon.

 

[stevew]

Well, JR is deliberately saying that stuff to test how true is Abby’s claim (a fib) that Valene is thinking of moving back to Dallas with Gary. Which JR doesn’t want. JR is also trying to find out if Sid is aware of Gary’s illegal business dealings in stolen auto parts being moved through Knots Landing Motors. Sid clearly doesn’t know. JR is in town for an oil convention and Abby has asked him to loan Gary $50000, using the excuse that without the money, Gary and Valene might move back to Dallas. Gary is aware that Abby was intending to go to JR for the money. Gary needs the money urgently to pay off Roy and Frank, who will come for him otherwise. At the same time, apart from wanting something for himself if he makes it easy for Gary to borrow the money, JR is getting interested in Sid’s engine, which forms the basis of JR’s next appearance. Also, Gary was then having an affair with the wife of the man he was sponsoring at Alcoholics Anonymous. Lucy got married on Dallas the following night.

So Gary had other reasons for not jumping to JR’s Nate other than it just no good.

 

[stevew]

I didn't mean his reaction to what was going on or what was being said. I just thought it was a priceless, funny JR moment. He was overreacting, but Larry Hagman wasn't overacting.
It makes him look like the stereotypical filthy-rich-but-unsophisticated-American-tycoon.

Very much. He was so second generation new money. Lol. Either a failure or killing it - JR was a bit of both.

 

[Toni]

Well, JR is deliberately saying that stuff to test how true is Abby’s claim (a fib) that Valene is thinking of moving back to Dallas with Gary. Which JR doesn’t want. JR is also trying to find out if Sid is aware of Gary’s illegal business dealings in stolen auto parts being moved through Knots Landing Motors. Sid clearly doesn’t know. JR is in town for an oil convention and Abby has asked him to loan Gary $50000, using the excuse that without the money, Gary and Valene might move back to Dallas. Gary is aware that Abby was intending to go to JR for the money. Gary needs the money urgently to pay off Roy and Frank, who will come for him otherwise. At the same time, apart from wanting something for himself if he makes it easy for Gary to borrow the money, JR is getting interested in Sid’s engine, which forms the basis of JR’s next appearance. Also, Gary was then having an affair with the wife of the man he was sponsoring at Alcoholics Anonymous. Lucy got married on Dallas the following night.

JR became a true nymphomaniac (is this right for a man?) after he was shot: in that same season, JR didn´t only slept with Abby (and Sue Ellen, because they were at good terms...), but also with good old Louella, Sally Bullock, Afton (of the "Steal Me Away" fame...), and still had time to go after the old blonde librarian called Leslie Stewart. Those were good old times for him, that´s for sure...

"Oh JR, there are 5 things I can do well, and one of them
is identify that nasty perfume "Secretoire"..."​

 

[TJames03]

Jock was really weird in that he got some odd thrills in making his children fight.