J.R. & Gary

[Seaviewer]

Yes, Gary finally bested J.R. in that episode, with the help of Valene and Karen, as J.R. was forced to abandon an offshore drill for a more expensive onshore drill. But J.R. turned it into his own positive by posing as some sort of "environmentally friendly" oilman in order to cut his financial losses.

And got a Time magazine cover out of it, foreshadowing the real-life Larry as JR cover later in the year.

JR became a true nymphomaniac (is this right for a man?)

The male equivalent is satyr.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

The male equivalent is satyr.

Yes, also referred to as a satyromaniac. Having sex with 5 women in a year besides his wife doesn't make a man a satyromaniac, though. JFK supposedly had sex with a different woman almost every night and I don't know that even he was commonly referred to as a satyromaniac. It's a very extreme condition. JR would much more likely be classified as a womanizer, a ladies' man or a playboy. Since JR was married, he was a cheater as well. Of course, JFK was also a cheater, it was known, and he was still one of the most beloved Presidents we've had.

 

[Jabari Lamar]

Jock was really weird in that he got some odd thrills in making his children fight.

He came from a different era, where "masculinity" was determined by your aggression and a sort of survival-of-the-fittest attitude, where fighting (be it in your personal life or your professional life) was the way to prove your worth. This is exemplified by his infamous "real power is something you TAKE!" motto. So it's no surprise that he would think that the best way to make his boys strong is to have them fight each other, to see who wants "it" more. In his mind, this should bring out the best in both of them. And it's why he ultimately rejected Gary, as he didn't have those aggressive tendencies, and Jock saw that as "weak".

 

[Kenny Coyote]

He came from a different era, where "masculinity" was determined by your aggression and a sort of survival-of-the-fittest attitude, where fighting (be it in your personal life or your professional life) was the way to prove your worth. This is exemplified by his infamous "real power is something you TAKE!" motto. So it's no surprise that he would think that the best way to make his boys strong is to have them fight each other, to see who wants "it" more. In his mind, this should bring out the best in both of them. And it's why he ultimately rejected Gary, as he didn't have those aggressive tendencies, and Jock saw that as "weak".

It's not the era; life has always been about the survival of the fittest. Darwin discovered that. Survival of the fittest was a scientific finding he made and science is not ruled by societal trends.

Jock's idea that "Nobody gives you power" is correct because that what is given can be taken away.

Then Jock said "Real power is something you take." If one acquires power, or success, by his own merits rather than through a favor, he has earned that power. Nobody can ask him to give that power back because that power or that success is that man's own. Nobody has a claim to it but the man who has acquired it through his own work.

 

[J. R.'s Piece]

It almost feels like J.R. hates Gary as much as he hates Cliff Barnes and I don't think their relationship ever improved as the series went on. It went far beyond a brotherly rivalry but what I don't understand is why

*I haven't watched Knots Landing so if there were any nice family scenes between J.R. and Gary then I haven't seen them before.*

JR once told Valene that she was holding Gary back

 

[Jabari Lamar]

It's not the era; life has always been about the survival of the fittest. Darwin discovered that. Survival of the fittest was a scientific finding he made and science is not ruled by societal trends.

You're being overly literal. I'm not discussing human evoluation, but replying to a comment made in observance of Jock's parenting style, and why he apparently got "thrills" from making his sons fight, as opposed to, say, teaching them to work together as partners (like he always claimed he wanted).

 

[J. R.'s Piece]

it's why he ultimately rejected Gary, as he didn't have those aggressive tendencies, and Jock saw that as "weak".

Gary once told a story about when he used to be into the rodeo and he used to practice on a mean horse on the ranch. It would throw him and he would get back up again. When he was fifteen, he figured he was ready for the rodeo but Jock figured otherwise. So Gary sneaked into the rodeo with his friends and got drunk and rode the meanest horse he could find. He stayed on it for eight seconds but when it threw him, he broke his back. Afterwards, Jock came to see him and it was like he was proud of Gary for having the guts to do it.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

You're being overly literal. I'm not discussing human evoluation, but replying to a comment made in observance of Jock's parenting style, and why he apparently got "thrills" from making his sons fight, as opposed to, say, teaching them to work together as partners (like he always claimed he wanted).

I wasn't referring to jus evolution. Business is a lot like that. The less "fit" businesses get run out of business by their competition. Jock was just toughening them up so they'd be ready for a very competitive world.

 

[Jabari Lamar]

Jock was just toughening them up so they'd be ready for a very competitive world.

Well I'm not going to get into an argument about the effectiveness or not of Jock's parenting style right now.

 

[J. R.'s Piece]

Well I'm not going to get into an argument about the effectiveness or not of Jock's parenting style right now.

Well, no arguing but Gary does stop a couple of times when telling that story, in a scene making it clear that he didn’t see eye to eye with his father/Jock’s way of looking at things.

So, I recently re-watched Reunion Part 1 & 2 and it occurred to me how much they set Gary and J.R. up to have their own mini-feud, so much so that it really resembled Jock and Digger. There were even script repetitions from the mini-series - in Barbecue, Jock says Digger's "been a loser every day of his life" and J.R. says literally the exact same thing about Gary to Sue Ellen in Reunion Part 1.

In the aftermath of the reading of Jock’s Will, Gary does spend a lot of time thinking about his father’s opinions about him and JR too. He eventually comes to discover that he is sad about Jock’s death but it doesn’t mean that Jock was right about him. And he stands up to JR again, as he previously did when JR was planning to drill near Gary’s home.
https://dallasdecoder.com/2012/06/05/scene-of-the-day-j-r-it-never-rains-in-southern-california/

So,
It almost feels like J.R. hates Gary as much as he hates Cliff Barnes and I don't think their relationship ever improved as the series went on. It went far beyond a brotherly rivalry but what I don't understand is why

*I haven't watched Knots Landing so if there were any nice family scenes between J.R. and Gary then I haven't seen them before.*

Well, JR did seem pleased about the prospect of Gary getting together with Abby. And he added that Abby should keep Gary out of his showroom (Dallas). When Abby asked him what would she get in return for keeping Gary out of Dallas, JR replied, “My blessing”. And JR had sex with Abby before Gary did.

 

[J. R.'s Piece]

It almost feels like J.R. hates Gary as much as he hates Cliff Barnes and I don't think their relationship ever improved as the series went on. It went far beyond a brotherly rivalry but what I don't understand is why - Gary was clearly no match for J.R. and, when he returned to Southfork, Jock accepted his son back into the family fold. Why do you think J.R. couldn't do the same? Was he really threatened by Gary (if so, why), or was he bitter because Gary was Miss Ellie's favourite?

*I haven't watched Knots Landing so if there were any nice family scenes between J.R. and Gary then I haven't seen them before.*

But JR called Gary’s wife Valene his favourite sister-in-law! Compared to Pam, obviously. JR enjoyed popping over to see Valene.And he liked her book so much, he bought the publishing company! And requested that she signed his copy, “To my favourite brother-in-law in the whole wide world”.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?r=9&v=eETRg-qigr4

 

[J. R.'s Piece]

*I haven't watched Knots Landing so if there were any nice family scenes between J.R. and Gary then I haven't seen them before.*

Well...erm...



"Well, I was in L.A. for a couple of days, takin' care of a little unfinished business and uh, I couldn't very well leave town without droppin' in to say hello to my little brother, could I?"
-JR to Gary in A Family Matter




“When I get back, I’ll give everybody a kiss for you”
-JR to Gary, after loaning Gary $100000 in A Family Matter (written by David Paulsen).

 

[TJames03]

I wish Gary would have punched Jock’s ass out.....

 

[Kenny Coyote]

I wish Gary would have punched Jock’s ass out.....

Who wants to see a son punch his father? That's sickening!

 

[J. R.'s Piece]

It almost feels like J.R. hates Gary as much as he hates Cliff Barnes and I don't think their relationship ever improved as the series went on. It went far beyond a brotherly rivalry but what I don't understand is why -

*I haven't watched Knots Landing so if there were any nice family scenes between J.R. and Gary then I haven't seen them before.*

 

[J. R.'s Piece]

Couple of clips
https://www.instagram.com/p/BtHyBC9FJNr/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bsj1U-PFjAF/

 

[J. R.'s Piece]

Gary's faults are all there on Knots Landing, and how he gradually copes with them. Everything I said about the dynamic between J.R. and Gary is true. And as I said before, David Jacobs wrote early Gary episodes on Dallas and was then Executive Producer on Knots Landing. It's not like there were two completely different creative minds behind the different shows in regards to Gary.

I also find it bizarre how you seek to paint J.R. as some sort of "anti-hero" instead of a villain, even an entertaining villain.

12.5 years have popped by since I first blackmailed my way into one of the soapchats, popping in and out without comeuppance. In those early times, I used to search up just about every old thread that I could find that discussed JR and Gary’s relationship. Since it was a relationship which spanned both Dallas and Knots Landing, there was never any trouble about people discussing that material on each forum when relevant. Especially with most of JR’s longer dialogue exchanges with Gary actually taking place on Knots Landing.

 

[kenneth]

I would love to see JR and Bobby make a life for themselves, away from Southfork, Ewing Oil and all that money and power, like the "weaker" Gary managed to do before he had even heard of Knots Landing. They would have gone running home to Daddy inside a month.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Was it ever explained where Gary was and what he was doing when Lucy was taken from Valene?

When Gary found out Lucy had been taken to Southfork, what did he do to get Lucy back?

 

[J. R.'s Piece]

Was it ever explained where Gary was and what he was doing when Lucy was taken from Valene?

When Gary found out Lucy had been taken to Southfork, what did he do to get Lucy back?

Lucy was on Southfork when Gary left. Gary didn’t know that JR was going to drive Valene away and to order her to never return to Texas. It was explained that Gary had left because of pressures from Jock and JR. Gary said that all his life, Jock made him feel worthless. JR claimed to have broken Gary and threatened to do it again. Gary said that every time he had tangled with JR, he had lost. JR claimed to always have come out on top when he dealt with Gary. It isn’t clear if and when Gary found out pre-1978. It isn’t even totally clear if he never ever visited Southfork in the intervening years. A comment from Valene to Lucy suggests that he may have made a couple of fleeting visits. Yet he may have been absent for sixteen years. Valene tried to get Lucy back, physically and legally. Being around Jock and JR had made Gary feel he wasn’t good for anything. Fortunately in the aftermath of the reading of Jock’s Will, Gary begins to find out that Jock was wrong in his opinions about him and that JR is actually afraid of him.