Mark Graison's Persistence In Going After Pam

[Jon Ewing Jr.]

I always thought Bobby should have punched him right in the damn face that one time when he was bringing Christopher back to Pam's suite and Mark came in, asking Bobby how we was doing, just like he was doing nothing wrong. The only thing Bob did was "ask him why he was hanging around his wife". If i'd been Bobby I would have punched him across the face.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

I always thought Bobby should have punched him right in the damn face that one time when he was bringing Christopher back to Pam's suite and Mark came in, asking Bobby how we was doing, just like he was doing nothing wrong. The only thing Bob did was "ask him why he was hanging around his wife". If i'd been Bobby I would have punched him across the face.

You and I are thinking along the same lines! Check out the last part of my earlier post:

"Mark was calling Pam at Southfork, he was showing up with flowers and champagne at the aerobics studio Bobby bought for Pam, and completely disrespecting Bobby and his marriage.

Do you think Bobby should have confronted him in a stronger manner than he did? If I'd been Bobby I'd have told Mark 'Stop calling my wife, stop following her around and stop talking to her. If you don't, I will kick your ass every single time I see you.' "

Now that would have been a priceless Dallas moment to see that scene. If they'd fought, then with the exception of Ray, Bobby would be fighting someone his own age and his own size for the first time. Mark wasn't like Tommy McKay - a drug addicted punk, even though that turned out to be a hell of a fight. I still think Bobby would have beat Mark in a fight, because Bobby would have been fighting for his wife. That would have made the difference.

 

[Karin]

But Bobby and Mark did fight, at the Oil Baron's Bal and Pam was not amused!

 

[Jimmy Todd]

Pam has some responsibility. She should have stopped encouraging Mark from the very beginning by making it clear in no uncertain terms that she's married and not come around anymore.
I love that it was JR who called her out
on this.:bang:

 

[Toni]

Oh come on. Women like Pam can have male friends...and not necessarily gays, though Mark was well-endowed (mustache-wise) for being a "top" adult movie star...

As Kenny has noticed already, IMHO in a soap, if a man does something, he is a stalker, but if a woman does the same thing, she´s all flirty and feminine (not thinking about you, April dear...). I still don´t know WHY April liked Bobby so much (I know why I do, of course...). Obviously because of his abs and big hair, and for his bank account. She was lucky that Bobby did NOT turn out to be the real stalker...or an abusing husband like J.R.

I watch prime time soaps because I love dreaming (like my former sister Pam) and soap life is more fun and exciting than real life. Rules of real life can´t (and shouldn´t) be applied to the storylines of a drama (and much less from the 80s). If we did so, it would be the most boring of all (won´t name names...) and the main characters would be like us or our families or neighbors. Daytime soaps are closer to that, but also a lot far from reality in a very contradictory way.

One of the things that seem more strange to me is how easily the plots and characters are taken out of context and times. I seem to understand from some posts here: "I hate X because I would hate X in real life if X did that to me." Let me tell you that I never identify myself with any of the "Dallas" characters with the likely exception of early Lucy (believe it or not, I also used to be an eyebrow-raising, (slightly) beeching teenager).

I like to see how they dealt with the ideas and dreams and fears that the show projects: romantic life with Bobby and Pam, abused wife trying to become her own person, Big Mama unsuccessfully fighting to keep the family together, etc. Maybe I´m the weird one, but I don´t want to be Bobby nor Pam nor J.R., not even Lucy...or Pollyanna. I am moi and watching "Dallas" was (and still is) a healthy trip and a funny rollercoaster of emotions. Oh please Soap Gods, don´t let my life be like that!! :fp:

 

[Billy Wall]

You and I are thinking along the same lines! Check out the last part of my earlier post:

"Mark was calling Pam at Southfork, he was showing up with flowers and champagne at the aerobics studio Bobby bought for Pam, and completely disrespecting Bobby and his marriage.

Do you think Bobby should have confronted him in a stronger manner than he did? If I'd been Bobby I'd have told Mark 'Stop calling my wife, stop following her around and stop talking to her. If you don't, I will kick your ass every single time I see you.' "

Now that would have been a priceless Dallas moment to see that scene. If they'd fought, then with the exception of Ray, Bobby would be fighting someone his own age and his own size for the first time. Mark wasn't like Tommy McKay - a drug addicted punk, even though that turned out to be a hell of a fight. I still think Bobby would have beat Mark in a fight, because Bobby would have been fighting for his wife. That would have made the difference.

What about all the times he got into fights at bars?

 

[Billy Wall]

Pam has some responsibility. She should have stopped encouraging Mark from the very beginning by making it clear in no uncertain terms that she's married and not come around anymore.
I love that it was JR who called her out
on this.:bang:

Absolutely.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

One of the things that seem more strange to me is how easily the plots and characters are taken out of context and times. I seem to understand from some posts here: "I hate X because I would hate X in real life if X did that to me." Let me tell you that I never identify myself with any of the "Dallas" characters with the likely exception of early Lucy (believe it or not, I also used to be an eyebrow-raising, (slightly) beeching teenager).

I like to see how they dealt with the ideas and dreams and fears that the show projects: romantic life with Bobby and Pam, abused wife trying to become her own person, Big Mama unsuccessfully fighting to keep the family together, etc. Maybe I´m the weird one, but I don´t want to be Bobby nor Pam nor J.R., not even Lucy...or Pollyanna. I am moi and watching "Dallas" was (and still is) a healthy trip and a funny rollercoaster of emotions. Oh please Soap Gods, don´t let my life be like that!! :fp:

I can identify with some characters in some situations, but as a whole, Dallas is pretty different from real life, and that's a good thing as @Toni said.. I can think how I'd probably feel if I were Bobby and Mark was trying to take my wife from me. It's not exactly identifying with him, because I don't think and act like Bobby, I also know that if I did some of the things Bobby does I'd wind up in legal trouble quickly. So I just think "if I were Bobby, this is what I'd do" in accordance with how things work in the world of Dallas. I know he can get in fights and not have legal problems as a result.

I find JR very entertaining but I don't want to be like him. Why is he married to Sue Ellen if he can't love her and be faithful to her? I'd rather be like Jock than JR or Bobby, if I were going to choose one person from Dallas to be. I'd want to be the man who founded his own company, built it from the ground up into a huge, successful company. The man married to the same woman for over 40 years. He knows what he wants in life and goes after it, while a lot of others around him seem confused as to what it is they want.

There is a real lack of characters on TV dramas today like Jock Ewing. Maybe I'm just watching the wrong shows, but except for Yellowstone, I don't see any characters at all similar to Jock. The men in TV today, for the most part, seem less masculine.. They're more fragile. I really don't know who these fragile, less masculine types of male characters are supposed to appeal to or why they would appeal to anyone. I like how Jock says what he means and means what he says. His handshake is better than a contract. Is the reason they have these more fragile, overly sensitive, less ambitious, highly dysfunctional male characters on TV today who just aren't too tough is that a Jock Ewing character today would frighten the millennials?

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

I always thought Bobby should have punched him right in the damn face that one time when he was bringing Christopher back to Pam's suite and Mark came in, asking Bobby how we was doing, just like he was doing nothing wrong. The only thing Bob did was "ask him why he was hanging around his wife". If i'd been Bobby I would have punched him across the face.

Bobby should have taken Mark apart. We never really got to see him do that, sadly, but he must have been good at it.

 

[johnmmil10]

Mark wouldn’t go away and Pam didn’t mind him hanging around.

 

[Jimmy Todd]

Mark wouldn’t go away and Pam didn’t mind him hanging around.

Pam liked the attention and it's understandable. This is why season 6 is, imho, the best season. The characters are so well-written and their behavior is "realistic," in that they're like every human on earth(imperfect, inconsistent), yet enough "unrealistic" drama, great dialogue, perfectly coiffed people, etc., too keep it interesting.
@Toni and others here have made excellent points regarding realism vs "soapiness" in TV. If all these shows were truly realistic, very few would want yo watch them. However, even science fiction has to obey certain laws of science and logic. For example, Michael Crighton's book Jurassic Park used real science to make the fiction seem realistic, even though science says it couldn't happen.
It takes hard work on the writers' part to achieve that perfect balance. I give them a lot of credit. Then, of course, you have the actors and directors who do their part to keep that balance alive. When it works, you have a show that is still worth discussing and dissecting over 30 years later

 

[Jimmy Todd]

I can identify with some characters in some situations, but as a whole, Dallas is pretty different from real life, and that's a good thing as @Toni said.. I can think how I'd probably feel if I were Bobby and Mark was trying to take my wife from me. It's not exactly identifying with him, because I don't think and act like Bobby, I also know that if I did some of the things Bobby does I'd wind up in legal trouble quickly. So I just think "if I were Bobby, this is what I'd do" in accordance with how things work in the world of Dallas. I know he can get in fights and not have legal problems as a result.

I find JR very entertaining but I don't want to be like him. Why is he married to Sue Ellen if he can't love her and be faithful to her? I'd rather be like Jock than JR or Bobby, if I were going to choose one person from Dallas to be. I'd want to be the man who founded his own company, built it from the ground up into a huge, successful company. The man married to the same woman for over 40 years. He knows what he wants in life and goes after it, while a lot of others around him seem confused as to what it is they want.

There is a real lack of characters on TV dramas today like Jock Ewing. Maybe I'm just watching the wrong shows, but except for Yellowstone, I don't see any characters at all similar to Jock. The men in TV today, for the most part, seem less masculine.. They're more fragile. I really don't know who these fragile, less masculine types of male characters are supposed to appeal to or why they would appeal to anyone. I like how Jock says what he means and means what he says. His handshake is better than a contract. Is the reason they have these more fragile, overly sensitive, less ambitious, highly dysfunctional male characters on TV today who just aren't too tough is that a Jock Ewing character today would frighten the millennials?

@Kenny Coyote this is a great point worthy of it's own thread, the presentation of masculinity and femininity on television. Its definitely changed over the years. Jock is a great character for the reasons you stated, and he was a departure from the "sensitive male" of the 70's. . He's a tough, no-nonsense, take charge kind of guy who still maintains a certain nobility and honor. The only scene that would make me really dislike and lose respect for a man like Jock occurred very early in the show's run. JR has a long time employee of Ewing Oil fired just before he retires so the company can save on pension and retirement benefits. He does this with Jock's tacit approval. Imho, denial of just wages and exploitation of the worker are major sins. It's just cruel, and it's hard to see the Jock of later seasons approving of this. That is not what I consider.a real man, just a callous bully.

The only qualities of JR that I admire are his quick wit and his courage in being able to roll with the punches, literally and figuratively He wasn't afraid to speak his mind, even if it meant he'd get popped in the jaw. He always was able to get back up, keep moving, and maintain a cheerful, devil may care outlook.

I once took a class on masculinity in American literature and a character who fit the term quite well was Maggie in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. Physically, she was as feminine as they come. However, she was like Jock in some ways in saying what she meant, knowing exactly what she wants and going after it, and facing the harsh truths of life head on.
Thanks for getting these threads on season 6 going, Kenny. I'm really enjoying reading everyone's opinion

 

[Barbara Fan]

I'd rather be like Jock than JR or Bobby, if I were going to choose one person from Dallas to be. I'd want to be the man who founded his own company, built it from the ground up into a huge, successful company. The man married to the same woman for over 40 years. He knows what he wants in life and goes after it, while a lot of others around him seem confused as to what it is they want.

Jock may have done that but at a cost, he used the 3bs to acheive his goals, he had a man commited to a sanitarium to steal his land and he committed suicide, he rode roughshod over Tom owens and "did a lot of things in his life that hes not proud off - the Dove Hunt, and then there is Digger - who I know was no saint.

He failed to tell wife no 2 about wife no 1 despite paying for her Psych treatment for years and he had an affair in the war and fathered a child. JR and Bobby were chips off the old block, and both Jock and JR used bribery blackmail and corruption to get what they wanted. Joc was also a real male chauvinist with his womans place is in the bedroom or ewing women dont work comments

 

[Kenny Coyote]

Jock may have done that but at a cost, he used the 3bs to acheive his goals, he had a man commited to a sanitarium to steal his land and he committed suicide, he rode roughshod over Tom owens and "did a lot of things in his life that hes not proud off - the Dove Hunt, and then there is Digger - who I know was no saint.

He failed to tell wife no 2 about wife no 1 despite paying for her Psych treatment for years and he had an affair in the war and fathered a child. JR and Bobby were chips off the old block, and both Jock and JR used bribery blackmail and corruption to get what they wanted. Joc was also a real male chauvinist with his womans place is in the bedroom or ewing women dont work comments

Nobody's perfect. Everybody's got some dirt in their past.

 

[Swami]

How could Pam possibly have been taken in by that moustache and Mark's hideous car?

Bobby's Mercedes was far superior.

Swami

 

[Kenny Coyote]

@Kenny Coyote this is a great point worthy of it's own thread

I don't know if you're asking, but if you are, by all means go ahead and make a thread on that if you like.

Jock is a great character for the reasons you stated, and he was a departure from the "sensitive male" of the 70's.

That was a thing in the 70s? I wasn't old enough to remember. It's the first I've heard of it.

Anyway, the success of Yellowstone has proven that there is a good-sized market for shows that have a lead character who is reminiscent of Jock Ewing. Kevin Costner stars in Yellowstone as John Dutton - a rancher who is the type of rugged, highly capable man that's been missing from TV dramas.

Here's an article that describes Yellowstone and its success:

https://dailycaller.com/2019/09/04/...inale-gets-5-7-million-viewers-in-l3-ratings/

He's a tough, no-nonsense, take charge kind of guy who still maintains a certain nobility and honor. The only scene that would make me really dislike and lose respect for a man like Jock occurred very early in the show's run. JR has a long time employee of Ewing Oil fired just before he retires so the company can save on pension and retirement benefits. He does this with Jock's tacit approval

Tacit approval. So he didn't say anything? I don't remember it being made clear that he knew. Was it made clear that he knew about it?

The only qualities of JR that I admire are his quick wit and his courage in being able to roll with the punches, literally and figuratively He wasn't afraid to speak his mind, even if it meant he'd get popped in the jaw. He always was able to get back up, keep moving, and maintain a cheerful, devil may care outlook.

This could be a thread too! What are the qualities that made JR so popular among the TV watching populace, despite him doing so many underhanded things?

One thing I admire about JR is he handled stress very well. JR was often in high stress situations where he remained calm and controlled. That's crucial.

The other thing that comes to mind now that I admire about JR is he had a gift for dealing with people. No, I don't mean the way he treated Ray for example, with the "half-breed" jokes. I mean when JR needed to be charming and persuasive, he was excellent at doing it. Look at a scene like the one where he meets with the diplomat in season 6, Richard McIntyre - played by the same actor who played Dr. Herbert Styles, the father of Kimberly Cryder. When JR met with McIntyre he quickly made McIntyre feel comfortable and at ease. He then brought up the idea of going to Cuba, which was unorthodox to say the least at that time. Yet, JR was able to convince him and other key people that for him to go to Cuba was a good idea and in our country's best interest.

Another example is how JR came across as a potential political candidate in season 6. He and Sue Ellen appeared on a TV political talk show and frankly, he came across better than most actual political candidates do in real life. By far! JR utilized a style similar to that of Ross Perot, the Independent Party candidate, who destroyed his opponents President Bush and Bill Clinton, in the 1992 presidential debates. Perot's mistake was dropping out of the race and then re-entering it. Before he dropped out, Perot was leading in the Gallup poll. Much like Perot, JR explained the role of the President from a businessman's perspective, using common sense ideas that resonated with the public, and utilizing a quick wit to keep his opponents off-guard. It's worth noting that Perot was also a Texan. Perot passed away just two months ago in...Dallas, Texas!

Thanks for getting these threads on season 6 going, Kenny. I'm really enjoying reading everyone's opinion

Thanks, Jimmy. I'm glad you're enjoying these threads. I create them to get good discussions going. I hope more people get involved. The more people that get involved, the more fun it gets!

 

[Jon Ewing Jr.]

Bobby would have beaten Mark down all day long and a full month of Sundays. I so wish Bobby would have beaten him near death that time he showed up at Pams suite.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

One of the things that seem more strange to me is how easily the plots and characters are taken out of context and times. I seem to understand from some posts here: "I hate X because I would hate X in real life if X did that to me."

That's a reaction to a character based on reality. As human beings we have no other point of reference, i.e., we can't react to a character based on values which don't exist.

Dallas differs from real life in how often the characters have to deal with crisis-level situations. It's a drama because it focuses on the most dramatic aspects of life. It continually places its characters in dramatic situations. It's still grounded in reality, or it should be, but it's what I'd describe as "real life with the volume turned up." That's what makes it exciting to watch. If Dallas depicted their characters going through the variety of mundane situations that all of us do on a routine basis, nobody would want to watch it.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

I thought of this thread because we are doing a re-watch, and are now at the scene where Mark Returns. I understand what they needed to do for plot purposes, but Mark was very manipulative. He even had Pam followed.

Worse, when Pam asked who was following her, Mark replied:

"That was your guardian angel. I sent him to watch over you."

The Pam we knew-- the strong, independent Pam-- would never have put up with being followed. And wouldn't have allowed it to be waved off with a "he was your guardian angel".

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

Mark and Alex Ward should have formed
a power couple with one of the two taking turns dressing like and pretending to be Pam, for the occasional non-sequitur humor segment to spice up some of the duller mid-period episodes