Taylor Bennett Jr.
Telly Talk Winner
they should have had them explore a mild kink occasionally with Ray pretending to be Bobby and Jenna pretending to be Pam - that would have spiced things up a bit!
Steve Kanaly and Susan Howard
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they should have had them explore a mild kink occasionally with Ray pretending to be Bobby and Jenna pretending to be Pam - that would have spiced things up a bit!
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
Call me her name, Ray.
Toni
Maximum Member
Upon all sources Kanaly was let go because of the budget cuts, but Presley wanted to leave as early as in the Dream Season. Reportedly, Hagman convinced her to stay, and she (sadly) signed for a couple of more years. I highly doubt that Prissy would have remained in the show any longer because she had started a very successful movie career (you know, the "Naked Gun" films...
:fp
, and most importantly, she had given birth to her second child in the hiatus between her two last seasons.Kanaly should have never been fired, he was family more than April, James or Michelle (or Lesley-Anne Down´s character) who all replaced him in the opening titles. He was just another collateral damage of that disastrous dream "solution" that erased 31 and a half episodes of the show...
Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
That's your opinion but I liked Jenna far more than Donna. Jenna wasn't stuck-up, unlike Dona was and actually spoke to her sister-in-law Sue Ellen, unlike Donna who could never be bothered to speak to Sue Ellen or Pam. Jenna wasn't condescending towards Ray and didn't act like she a know-it-all, and as if she was an authority on everything.
Ray and Donna weren't well suited for each other at all. Donna had more in common with that seventy year old man she was married to, Sam Culver, than she ever did with Ray. For example, Donna didn't have any love of ranching and didn't care to know anything about it. Ray didn't know anything about politics and didn't want to either. Jenna was much better suited for Ray than Donna was.
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Miss Texas 1967
Telly Talk Addict
Jenna (and Charlie) stayed years too long for the character arc she was given. Previously when significant relationships broke up the character and actor left the screen because it was natural that following a Ewing based plot we weren't going to see their lives when they weren't with Ewings (think Dusty, Mandy or Mitch after the divorce). Jenna had a history with the Ewing family but it was through Bobby, when she and Bobby broke up that should have been her exit from the show if they had no substantial plot for her, the same way it was in the previous appearances by Morgan and Francine.
Ray suffered from being thrown into a plot with the other character that was floating around doing nothing even though they had no reason to be overly friendly or in a romantic plot. Then it was even worse when he moved to Europe at the end of one season and randomly showed up in the next season, it was jarring, as in "wait, didn't Ray leave?" If Steve was happy to be there and the writers were writing scenes for him they really should have come up with something better than what they did.
Ray suffered from being thrown into a plot with the other character that was floating around doing nothing even though they had no reason to be overly friendly or in a romantic plot. Then it was even worse when he moved to Europe at the end of one season and randomly showed up in the next season, it was jarring, as in "wait, didn't Ray leave?" If Steve was happy to be there and the writers were writing scenes for him they really should have come up with something better than what they did.
Jimmy Todd
Telly Talk Mega Star
I would have liked it if Jenna left after Bobby broke up with her and told her he was going to marry Pam. Her finsl scene would be with her and Charlie just as they are about to get in a car and drive away. Jenna puts her hand in her belly, looks at Charlie and says, "It's just the three of us now."
That way the writers have sown the seeds for a possible future story. In the meantime, it makes more sende that Jenna doesn't tell Bobby about the baby. It was out of character for Bobby to let another man raise his son, and he would definitely not let them take his child to Europe. Miss Ellie would have something to say about that, as well.
That way the writers have sown the seeds for a possible future story. In the meantime, it makes more sende that Jenna doesn't tell Bobby about the baby. It was out of character for Bobby to let another man raise his son, and he would definitely not let them take his child to Europe. Miss Ellie would have something to say about that, as well.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
You mean Jenna wasn't strong like Donna.
Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
No, I don't mean that. I didn't even think of that. I meant exactly what I wrote.
What does it matter who is stronger? If I gave a damn about how strong a woman is, I'd say Jenna, the woman who grew up on a ranch, would be able to work circles around Donna when baling hay, or something else that requires strength. But who cares? What kind of man says: "Look how much she can lift! That is so hot!"
Taylor Bennett Jr.
Telly Talk Winner
when it comes to the physical strength of the various characters of the show, I'd go with Bobby for weightlifting, but Ray might have more functional strength in some areas honed from years of hard physical work on the ranch. A young Jock would have been a dark horse in the competition - a powerhouse combination of the two.
As for the women... no idea. Maybe Lucy due to sheer youth, although she's quite small, or else Pam in her Body Principal days? Sue Ellen might have had the most raw potential with her height and natural thigh strength. Jenna was pretty thin and unimposing early, but looked less physically slight in the Francine Tacker incarnation. Priscilla appeared to be in excellent shape in her pool scenes.
I don't know, Donna might actually take it here.
(I'm being silly of course)
Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
My guess is Bobby could lift more weight for one rep, but Ray could probably lift moderately heavy things for longer periods of time than Bobby because of Ray's work- Ray would have stamina of a kind that's hard to acquire in the gym. Jock would have likely been more like Ray - tremendous stamina, such as when Julie Grey told Jock: You worked 3 straight days without sleep, helping to put out fires while men half your age were collapsing from exhaustion.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
You like the fact that Presley's Jenna was docile for longer.
And while I agree that Pam leaving with Christopher and Donna leaving Dallas with little Margaret isn't entirely fair, you always "side" with the guys over the women, and then you side between the guys depending on who qualifies most as Great White Father in your eyes.
Just admit it. You'll feel better.
Besides, how do you feel about Jenna's misandric assertion that a child needs to be with the mother, as opposed to the father? She wasn't very sympathetic to Ray's parental rights, while he was with hers.
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Jimmy Todd
Telly Talk Mega Star
I see "strength" here as strength in character, not physical strength. Although, Jenna could hold onto a mechanical bull and Donna could handle herself in a fight, just ask Pam and Bonnie, respectively.
Donna exhibited strength of character in that she never backed down or sacrificed her principles, especially in confrontations with JR. I'm not saying other characters lacked this quality, plenty of them did(Bobby, Jock, Pam, Miss Ellie, for example). Jenna seemed to be a bit all over the place, but that's attributed more to the writers and them not knowing exactly what to do with her after her role as a device to keep Pam and Bobby apart was no longer necessary.
Donna exhibited strength of character in that she never backed down or sacrificed her principles, especially in confrontations with JR. I'm not saying other characters lacked this quality, plenty of them did(Bobby, Jock, Pam, Miss Ellie, for example). Jenna seemed to be a bit all over the place, but that's attributed more to the writers and them not knowing exactly what to do with her after her role as a device to keep Pam and Bobby apart was no longer necessary.
Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
"Great White Fathers"? What's that, some identity politics term? You do know that identity politics has a Marxist basis, don't you? Is that why some here call you "Marky"? Was it originally "Marxy"?
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
Clearly you've never read my posts. I don't care much for identity politics, as a rule, but it occurs on both side of the fence, y'know.
Nice try sidestepping the specifics.
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Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
What specifically do you mean by "Great White Fathers"?
Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
Jenna was only partially right - a child's place is is with it's mother and father. In families with divorced parents, children do best when spending equal amounts of time with each parent. If she's strictly talking about infants, I think there's merit towards the child being mostly with the mother, but otherwise, spending equal time with each parent should be the goal. if one parent has some type of a problem making him or her less capable of a parent, such as possibly some sort of a mental health problem or an addiction, then their percentage of time would be adjusted downwards accordingly, depending on the details.
If one parent moves away, like Donna does, she forfeits some of that time, just as if the Ray had moved to Canada, he can't expect Donna to follow him there just because he wanted to move, so Ray would forfeit some of his time.
Donna would have to decide does she want to have her 50% of the time with Margaret, or does she want to move to DC and give Ray primary custody, with Margaret living there with her during summer vacation, and visiting her on some weekends? It's up to her -if her top priority is Margaret, which ideally it would be, she'd stay in Texas and work in local or state politics. If she decides working at the federal level in Washington is of paramount importance, and Margaret is just going to have to deal with getting short-changed of spending half her time with her mother, then that is her right to choose to do that, but then Margaret will spend the majority of time with Ray.
Snarky Oracle!
Telly Talk Supreme
You're right, of course, that's how it should be. But I assume you realize that's not how custody works -- women get custody ~85% of the time regardless.
Ray's wealth and his family's standing might affect that in his favor, but then Donna is a widow of an equally statured Texas icon. So who knows?
Seaviewer
Telly Talk Warrior
On paper, yes. But there's such a thing as chemistry. Ray and Donna had it; Ray and Jenna, not so much.
Pamela_E
Admin Emerita
Their relationship had layers and Donna was brilliant. The show lost sight of the audience as it was always an odd decision to keep Jenna around. The problem they always had was that many of the men were a bit boring and it was the women who made them interesting.
Bobby and Ray I'm looking at you
Jenna was very dull, so together with Ray it wasnt a good mix.
The whole Jenna being pregnant story didnt really work for me. I get the thinking behind it but it just felt a bit flat.
Bobby and Ray I'm looking at you
Jenna was very dull, so together with Ray it wasnt a good mix.
The whole Jenna being pregnant story didnt really work for me. I get the thinking behind it but it just felt a bit flat.