Cliff Barnes' age?

[Michelle Stevens]

I remember this was discussed years ago, on the older version of this forum but about what age or year of birth do you think fit for Cliff Barnes. I sorta remember he was to be about Bobby's age in Dallas: The Early Years (in the 1951 setting) but I found that sorta hard to accept. I always thought he was closer to JR's age or at least a few years older than Gary. Maybe 1939 or 1940 would have made him nearly forty when the show started and a little over fifty at the end in 1991. Any thoughts, insights?

 

[tommie]

I definitively saw him more as contemporary with JR rather than Bobby. He was definitively a few years older than Pam at least.

 

[Swami]

My guess is that he was perhaps a couple of years younger than JR.

Swami

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

I remember this was discussed years ago, on the older version of this forum but about what age or year of birth do you think fit for Cliff Barnes. I sorta remember he was to be about Bobby's age in Dallas: The Early Years (in the 1951 setting) but I found that sorta hard to accept. I always thought he was closer to JR's age or at least a few years older than Gary. Maybe 1939 or 1940 would have made him nearly forty when the show started and a little over fifty at the end in 1991. Any thoughts, insights?

He was supposed to be only about 5 or so years older than Pam, as he was a small boy when Rebecca left Dallas after the Hutch McKinney shooting while pregnant with Pam. That would make him perhaps a few years older than Bobby, I'd guess, unless Pam was supposed to be in her early 20s when the show began.

It's plausible that, as the older sibling growing up on the wrong side of the tracks who had to put himself through college and law school, Cliff would have come across as older than her really was, especially in relation to spoiled playboy Bobby. Of course, he became an often wildly immature-acting semi-buffoon a handful of years into the show, but maybe that was some sort of psychological reaction to his mother reappearing as a fabulously wealthy woman, or maybe his suicide attempt.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

He was supposed to be only about 5 or so years older than Pam, as he was a small boy when Rebecca left Dallas after the Hutch McKinney shooting while pregnant with Pam. That would make him perhaps a few years older than Bobby, I'd guess, unless Pam was supposed to be in her early 20s when the show began.

It's plausible that, as the older sibling growing up on the wrong side of the tracks who had to put himself through college and law school, Cliff would have come across as older than her really was, especially in relation to spoiled playboy Bobby. Of course, he became an often wildly immature-acting semi-buffoon a handful of years into the show, but maybe that was some sort of psychological reaction to his mother reappearing as a fabulously wealthy woman, or maybe his suicide attempt.

That's correct, Cliff was between 4 and 5 years older than Pam because when Rebecca left Cliff was still 5 and Pam was a baby. I don't remember Pam's age, but I think she was approximately 2 years younger than Bobby so Cliff was just slightly older than Bobby. JR, Gary and Ray were all older than Cliff.

I thought the most sensible thing Cliff ever said to Pam was telling her to not try to find Rebecca. Would you be willing to accept a woman who abandoned you when you were a baby, let you think she was dead, and then when you find her, she looks you in the eye and says you're mistaken, that he's not your mother? Then after her husband dies and she's lonely and desperate, only then does she tell you the truth - that she is your mother. No way!

 

[Karin]

I've always thought that Cliff was older than Bobby. The year of birth I would put for Cliff is 1945. That would make him five years older than Pam if she was born in 1950 which is the year I've always thought Pam was born. Others here on the forum has pointed out that Pam was supposed to be born in 1953. But I've always considered Bobby and Pam to be about the same age, with her being slightly younger. JR was definitely older than Cliff. But to say that Cliff was the same age as Bobby is just ridiculous since he really didn't look like it.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

He was supposed to be only about 5 or so years older than Pam, as he was a small boy when Rebecca left Dallas after the Hutch McKinney shooting while pregnant with Pam. That would make him perhaps a few years older than Bobby, I'd guess, unless Pam was supposed to be in her early 20s when the show began.

It's plausible that, as the older sibling growing up on the wrong side of the tracks who had to put himself through college and law school, Cliff would have come across as older than her really was, especially in relation to spoiled playboy Bobby. Of course, he became an often wildly immature-acting semi-buffoon a handful of years into the show, but maybe that was some sort of psychological reaction to his mother reappearing as a fabulously wealthy woman, or maybe his suicide attempt.

Yes, he was supposed to be only 5 years older than Pam. Since it was explained just prior to "WSJR?" that Pam was born either just after Christmas 1952 or maybe January 1953 (I bet VP loved that!) then Cliff would have been born around 1947 or 1948, and therefore ~30 when the series began --- despite Ken being 42.

But these things change and change fast. In 1980, they suggest Bobby was born in the fall of 1952 as Eisenhower was being elected, just a couple of months before Pam was born. During the dream, however, they give Bobby the actual 1949 birthdate of Patrick. Then in nuDALLAS in 2012, they have Bobby celebrating his 60th birthday, in keeping with the original 1952 date.

But then during the mini-series, Miss Ellie suggests the fight between Jock and Digger over her was 1930, and only an episode later, she and Jock are celebrating their 40th anniversary, suggesting they were married in 1938. Later still, they say Ellie and Jock had been married for 45 years before he died, making their wedding date 1936.

That said, maybe Cliff had done a ton of smoking in his twenties and was aging badly.

 

[tommie]

Isn't this the same space-time continuum issues we encounter when we're trying to sort out the layout of the Southfork manor?

It just doesn't make sense and at some point we have to accept it doesn't.

 

[Billy Wall]

I remember this was discussed years ago, on the older version of this forum but about what age or year of birth do you think fit for Cliff Barnes. I sorta remember he was to be about Bobby's age in Dallas: The Early Years (in the 1951 setting) but I found that sorta hard to accept. I always thought he was closer to JR's age or at least a few years older than Gary. Maybe 1939 or 1940 would have made him nearly forty when the show started and a little over fifty at the end in 1991. Any thoughts, insights?

I can actually see the early Dallas Kercheval playing Ray Krebbs. The role he originally auditioned for. Lol

 

[Justine]

I always think of Cliff and J.R. as born the same year maybe Cliff a year older - I don't think I've ever paid attention to dates on the show itself.

 

[James from London]

Rebecca left Digger when she was seventeen, having given birth to four children, two of whom died of neurofibromatosis. Cliff was her second kid so for her sake, you kind of want him to be as old as possible. But there's also a deleted scene from 'Spy in the House' where he says he was at college with Bobby and "had to clean up the dishes at his table", which is such a deliciously juicy detail you want that to be true as well. So 1948 kind of fits. That makes him a year younger than Sue Ellen, but I can live with that.

 

[Billy Wall]

JR was definitely older than Cliff. In Dallas: The early years, weren’t there a scene at the end where an obviously older JR was chasing Cliff around as kids?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Rebecca said she was 17, but was that definitely the year she left Digger (which means she was having his babies at 11 or 12) or was it the age "she was with him" in a nebulous way?

And we got upset that a 17 year old Lucy, of age in Texas in 1978, was steaming up the stud barn with her Uncle Ray!

 

[James from London]

Rebecca left Digger when she was seventeen, having given birth to four children, two of whom died of neurofibromatosis. Cliff was her second kid so for her sake, you kind of want him to be as old as possible.

I mean young, you want him to be as young as possible.

And we got upset that a 17 year old Lucy, of age in Texas in 1978, was steaming up the stud barn with her Uncle Ray!

And Lilimae had Val was she was fourteen.

In Dallas: The early years, weren’t there a scene at the end where an obviously older JR was chasing Cliff around as kids?

That scene was set in 1951 and Pam's in it too, only according to Season 2, she wasn't born until the following year.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

Rebecca said she was 17, but was that definitely the year she left Digger (which means she was having his babies at 11 or 12) or was it the age "she was with him" in a nebulous way?

And we got upset that a 17 year old Lucy, of age in Texas in 1978, was steaming up the stud barn with her Uncle Ray!

and she would have been 16 tops when she started carrying on with nasty old saddletramp/thief Hutch McKinney?? Uggh!

 

[Miss Texas 1967]

I just went back to look at the first draft script and it lists the ages. Naturally this isn't all set in stone and is subject to change throughout the show's development.

http://www.ultimatedallas.com/scripts/pilot.pdf

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

If we go by the 1980 script, Pam was born shortly after Christmas 1952, which could mean January 1953 --- interestingly, the same month Jim Davis' daughter, Tara, was born.

When Davis died of cancer in 1981, he reportedly had two photos in his wallet: one of Tara (who'd died in a 1970 car accident) and the other of Victoria whom shared a marked resemblance with his daughter, which is apparently why Victoria said that although Jim Davis played JR and Bobby's daddy, she always felt he was her daddy.

Not only that, Victoria (who was really born in 1946, not her preferred "1950") and Tara were both Sun in Capricorn/Moon in Capricorn. I should tell @garry.

 

[Kenny Coyote]

If we go by the 1980 script, Pam was born shortly after Christmas 1952, which could mean January 1953 --- interestingly, the same month Jim Davis' daughter, Tara, was born.

When Davis died of cancer in 1981, he reportedly had two photos in his wallet: one of Tara (who'd died in a 1970 car accident) and the other of Victoria whom shared a marked resemblance with his daughter, which is apparently why Victoria said that although Jim Davis played JR and Bobby's daddy, she always felt he was her daddy.

Not only that, Victoria (who was really born in 1946, not her preferred "1950") and Tara were both Sun in Capricorn/Moon in Capricorn. I should tell @garry.

You seem to know a lot about VP. Do you happen to know if she had breast augmentation surgery during the time when Dallas was on the air? It seems like she gets thinner as the seasons go by, while her breasts get even bigger. That doesn't typically happen.

 

[Chris2]

Miss Ellie had JR when she was 9.