stevew
Telly Talk Star
I agree it only takes a line or two. Carmen went to live with her sister Teresa. Elena went to prison for colluding with Nick Trevino. Done.
Shame is I did like the Drew character and his interactions with John Ross.
Dallas News Is there 'an announcement' imminent..?
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I agree it only takes a line or two. Carmen went to live with her sister Teresa. Elena went to prison for colluding with Nick Trevino. Done.
Shame is I did like the Drew character and his interactions with John Ross.
stevew
Telly Talk Star
I like the idea of a Warner Brothers channel. My daughter got Disney and we don’t need all this CD’s anymore. Imagine if my son got WB - we could stream it ALL practically.
stevew
Telly Talk Star
I like the idea of a reboot and continuation in one. They missed that opportunity here. Obviously we can’t have a word for word reboot in 2020, but we can have the idea.
Bobby in Miss Ellie’s role, he owns 1/2 the ranch, instead of the SOB he played, he could be the Bobby we knew and loved, just older and wiser, still tying to find love.
Sue Ellen in Jock’s role, instead of creating EO she created the Ewing Family Foundation, starting with Ellie and Clayton’s money, a multi billion dollar juggernaut, friends around the world and 20 years to learn, she’s now as capable as Jock at promoting her family’s interests.
John Ross in the Bobby role, basically a good person who does what he has to, dabbling in business and politics and ranching. Married to a Barnes, with adopted kids.
John Ross’s “sister” in JR’s role, a funny, snobbish, power hungry sociopath.
A brother for Pamela, the son of Afton and Jeremy Wendell, the only family Pamela has left, eager to avenge his fathers hated for the Ewing’s.
Toss in a Sue Ellen, Lucy and Ray role and we’re off and running with a reboot and continuation. History has a way of repeating itself.
Bobby in Miss Ellie’s role, he owns 1/2 the ranch, instead of the SOB he played, he could be the Bobby we knew and loved, just older and wiser, still tying to find love.
Sue Ellen in Jock’s role, instead of creating EO she created the Ewing Family Foundation, starting with Ellie and Clayton’s money, a multi billion dollar juggernaut, friends around the world and 20 years to learn, she’s now as capable as Jock at promoting her family’s interests.
John Ross in the Bobby role, basically a good person who does what he has to, dabbling in business and politics and ranching. Married to a Barnes, with adopted kids.
John Ross’s “sister” in JR’s role, a funny, snobbish, power hungry sociopath.
A brother for Pamela, the son of Afton and Jeremy Wendell, the only family Pamela has left, eager to avenge his fathers hated for the Ewing’s.
Toss in a Sue Ellen, Lucy and Ray role and we’re off and running with a reboot and continuation. History has a way of repeating itself.
Garry
Telly Talk Fan
You sound like a current Hollywood woke TV exec.
What you describe isn't Dallas - it's just another 'turning an original classic format on its head because that's what audiences want these days' kind of thing.Hollywood are already doing this with reboots of Kung Fu. The Equalizer and Turner and Hooch. Your idea could be an interesting show, but it should never be titled Dallas.
Mind you be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
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stevew
Telly Talk Star
You sound like a current Hollywood woke TV exec.
Hollywood are already doing this with reboots of Kung Fu. The Equalizer and Turner and Hooch. Your idea could be an interesting show, but it should never be titled Dallas.
Mind you be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
I disagree. It’s the logical progression of what was Dallas. Bobby remains Bobby, the son of Jock and Ellie Ewing who was the good guy who loved the land and his family, much like his mother and the main his father became in retirement. Sue Ellen remains the strong woman she grew into over the 10 + years of the original with friends, business savvy, and the capability to take on even JR. There’s nothing “woke” about it - and it is Dallas as its who they became, what what CC turned them into and not what they started out as.
John Ross playing more of the Bobby role is exactly what David Jacobs talked about. Nothing unDallas about it, just depends on how they right it. The idea shouldn’t be to make him exactly like Bobby. As for a female version of JR over Christopher taking on the JR role, I’m assuming that’s what you’re referring to by saying it’s “turning an original classic format on its head.” The problem is, if you just redo exactly what they did in 1978, why bother? They did a great job with a stellar cast. And if JR did have a daughter, I’d be very interested in what she turned out like, especially if JR was in her life growing up.
What is Dallas: a show about the Ewing family, their eccentricities, their business (especially in oil and cattle) and their enemies. The above characters fit right into that. Your comment sounds like a grumpy old man who opposes any sort of change.
Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
The exchange between Steve and Garry has been interesting – one of the more interesting exchanges I’ve seen here in the last few weeks. Since this exchange didn't involve me, I have no axe to grind here so I can add an impartial perspective. I’m gonna try to identify where the two sides here disagree, since Garry didn’t go into specifics and I’d like to go into specifics.
First of all I didn’t know exactly what he meant in that first sentence since I don’t use the w word. I actually looked it up to see what it means according to a respected source such as Merriam-Webster and they said it’s black vernacular that is “slowly easing into the mainstream.” “Slowly easing into the mainstream” – sounds like a description of the coronavirus!
Both of them doing that with the potential effect of destroying American society as we know it (one attacking rationality and the other attacking health) unless we stamp them both out - the quicker the better.
I don’t agree with that particular part at all, and I happen to like a lot of Steve’s posts – he’s not trying to destroy our society – so no, the comparison doesn’t hold up. It was a line that did grab attention though which is what I believe it was designed to do.
That’s what I agreed with. I see no logic or even good taste in putting Bobby in Miss Ellie’s role and putting Sue Ellen in Jock’s role.
You can’t make someone into something they naturally aren’t. You can’t make Bobby into Ellie (why would you want to???) and can’t make Sue Ellen into Jock (why the hell would you think you could???). That’s just such a bizarre concept, but right now we’ve got a very small but very vocal minority in this country trying to start some type of war over gender pronouns, over what people “identify as”, and a bunch of other needless bullsh*t that’s been propagated primarily by liberal college professors and college students with too much time on their hands and no real problems to deal with, so they’ve actually invented problems that didn’t exist just so they have something to complain about.
I didn’t see where Steve acknowledged this but that’s a compliment. Garry’s not trying to tear down Steve’s idea for the fun of it. He’s offering Steve constructive criticism here. Garry says it could be an interesting show and maybe it could but I agree 100% that “it should never be titled Dallas.” To me, and to others, the Dallas name stands for something. When people like @Sarah and @Barbara Fan say they don't want any new Dallas at all, I didn't get it at first, but now I do! To us, Dallas is something valuable, it's got a very specific place in our hearts, and seeing it get changed into something it was never meant to be, would be very sad.
Again, putting Bobby in the role of the mother, where does that even come from and why would anyone want to see that? Why would anyone want to see Sue Ellen in the role of the father?
Ellie’s role was her role because she was the mother. Jock’s role was Jock’s role because he was the father. One is a feminine role and one is a masculine role! I’d find it very disrespectful to the Dallas name to get into this kind of project that sounds like it would be the project of a kid majoring in gender studies at a liberal arts college.
Even if gender were a non-issue, hypothetically, you've gotta realize that Jock and Sue Ellen were nothing alike. Jock, from the time he was a young man was the most ambitious man in the state of Texas. He worked harder and worked smarter than anyone else, and had some luck to go along with all that. The result as an empire he built from the ground up. He had a fire in his gut and an ambition so powerful, that if Sue Ellen were a competitor (hypothetically) he could turn her lights out just like snapping his fingers.
Sue Ellen was a woman with no ambition other than to marry into a wealthy family and sponge off of them while they enabled her drinking habit. She didn't do anything! She didn't work, she didn't even cook! What was her purpose? What value did she contribute to the family? Nobody ever had to ask that about Jock Ewing. The two are absolutely nothing alike. I think Jock would have rather shot himself than to live like Sue Ellen, like a sponge, just leeching off of other people's money while he did nothing all day long but drink. He'd much rather have taken his own life than to ever have lived like Sue Ellen lived because he had self-respect and he had dignity.
Dallas has dignity too - just like Jock. To see Dallas, become something that bears little if any resemblance to what Dallas was in 1980 when 90 million Americans tuned in on November 21st to find out who shot JR, would be heartbreaking. To see a show that was the number one show in the world relegated to a streaming site because it can't compete with the biggest shows on TV, to see it get sent down to the minor leagues where it can find a niche audience would be something none of us would ever want to see. It would be like watching that prize fighter you know has taken all the punishment he can and needs to retire, step into the ring in more time and get demolished, leaving the ring a shell of himself, with too few brain cells left to even count his money. I don't want to see Dallas end up in a similar way.
You do realize that while people absolutely love what Dallas started out as, they dislike and even hate what it became, right? There are a few thousand threads here where that sentiment is clearly expressed by most if not all the forum members. What Dallas became is not something to celebrate, or God forbid, continue – what it was is the downfall of what was once the greatest primetime drama series ever known to man.
Even of you decide to disregard all that and go ahead, there are still some major problems with it as far as continuity.
Sue Ellen and JR divorced in season 12, and that was the end of their relationship. They hated each other by then. Their two marriages were both brutally dysfunctional and they both couldn’t have been happier to get rid of the other. So how the hell do you figure Sue Ellen ends up inheriting Miss Ellie’s money? She’s gonna leave it to the cold blooded bitch who tried to murder her son?
No! She’d leave her money to her sons and if she’s got any decency, she’’d treat them equally and give each a third of her money – one third for JR, one third for Bob, and one third for Gary. Probably she leaves some amount of money to Ray too since he was her stepson.
When JR died there’s only one person he’d consider leaving his money to – his son John Ross. Bob would still have his third, and Gary would have his third. Sue Ellen wouldn’t have been left a penny.
Also, John Ross doesn’t have a sister! People absolutely loathed Cynthia Cidre’s blatant changing of what we saw, her willingness to just twist Dallas history into whatever she wanted it to be, so why not learn from her mistakes? If John Ross didn’t have a sister, then he didn’t have one - no matter what that clueless Cidre airhead thinks.
I don't think think that Afton would have touched Jeremy Wendell with a ten foot pole, much less married him! She was, as my kids use to say, "creeped out" by Vaughan Leland to the point where she quit working for JR, even knowing full well that he'd try to ruin her career in Dallas. The idea of sleeping with an old man so turned her stomach to the point where she just couldn't do it, even though she knew she was hurting her singing career by turning JR against her!
Then we consider that Jeremy Wendell expressly said on numerous occasions that he had no wife, that he stayed single for a very specific reason - he wanted no distractions from his career. He wanted to be, and was, as he said, "cold and implacable with no chinks in my armor." That's Jeremy's M.O. That's what he made the conscious decision to do to give him an edge over everyone else and hell, it worked! He became CEO of the biggest oil company in Texas. That was his passion. When young, hot women would hit in him, and some even threw themselves at him, he always resisted the temptation. That's the price Jeremy Wended was willing to pay for greatness. Change that and you destroy the whole foundation of the character.
There’s one more big problem. No Ewing is in the oil industry in your scenario. Dallas is about a family primarily in the oil business! It also secondarily in the ranching business, but first and foremost they are an oil industry family. Take away the oil industry and you take away that which the show is built upon. Jock Ewing had oil in his blood and Miss Ellie knew it when she married him. JR ate, breathed, and drank the oil business. So you have John Ross III "dabbling in business, politics, and ranching"? That makes him a dilettante.
Nobody wants to watch a show about a dilettante. It's only natural that John Ross III would be an oilman. It's his heritage, his birthright, it's something that's bred in him, it's what his father and grandfather were made of, it's what he's got to be.
First of all I didn’t know exactly what he meant in that first sentence since I don’t use the w word. I actually looked it up to see what it means according to a respected source such as Merriam-Webster and they said it’s black vernacular that is “slowly easing into the mainstream.” “Slowly easing into the mainstream” – sounds like a description of the coronavirus!
Both of them doing that with the potential effect of destroying American society as we know it (one attacking rationality and the other attacking health) unless we stamp them both out - the quicker the better.
I don’t agree with that particular part at all, and I happen to like a lot of Steve’s posts – he’s not trying to destroy our society – so no, the comparison doesn’t hold up. It was a line that did grab attention though which is what I believe it was designed to do.
That’s what I agreed with. I see no logic or even good taste in putting Bobby in Miss Ellie’s role and putting Sue Ellen in Jock’s role.
You can’t make someone into something they naturally aren’t. You can’t make Bobby into Ellie (why would you want to???) and can’t make Sue Ellen into Jock (why the hell would you think you could???). That’s just such a bizarre concept, but right now we’ve got a very small but very vocal minority in this country trying to start some type of war over gender pronouns, over what people “identify as”, and a bunch of other needless bullsh*t that’s been propagated primarily by liberal college professors and college students with too much time on their hands and no real problems to deal with, so they’ve actually invented problems that didn’t exist just so they have something to complain about.
I didn’t see where Steve acknowledged this but that’s a compliment. Garry’s not trying to tear down Steve’s idea for the fun of it. He’s offering Steve constructive criticism here. Garry says it could be an interesting show and maybe it could but I agree 100% that “it should never be titled Dallas.” To me, and to others, the Dallas name stands for something. When people like @Sarah and @Barbara Fan say they don't want any new Dallas at all, I didn't get it at first, but now I do! To us, Dallas is something valuable, it's got a very specific place in our hearts, and seeing it get changed into something it was never meant to be, would be very sad.
Again, putting Bobby in the role of the mother, where does that even come from and why would anyone want to see that? Why would anyone want to see Sue Ellen in the role of the father?
Ellie’s role was her role because she was the mother. Jock’s role was Jock’s role because he was the father. One is a feminine role and one is a masculine role! I’d find it very disrespectful to the Dallas name to get into this kind of project that sounds like it would be the project of a kid majoring in gender studies at a liberal arts college.
Even if gender were a non-issue, hypothetically, you've gotta realize that Jock and Sue Ellen were nothing alike. Jock, from the time he was a young man was the most ambitious man in the state of Texas. He worked harder and worked smarter than anyone else, and had some luck to go along with all that. The result as an empire he built from the ground up. He had a fire in his gut and an ambition so powerful, that if Sue Ellen were a competitor (hypothetically) he could turn her lights out just like snapping his fingers.
Sue Ellen was a woman with no ambition other than to marry into a wealthy family and sponge off of them while they enabled her drinking habit. She didn't do anything! She didn't work, she didn't even cook! What was her purpose? What value did she contribute to the family? Nobody ever had to ask that about Jock Ewing. The two are absolutely nothing alike. I think Jock would have rather shot himself than to live like Sue Ellen, like a sponge, just leeching off of other people's money while he did nothing all day long but drink. He'd much rather have taken his own life than to ever have lived like Sue Ellen lived because he had self-respect and he had dignity.
Dallas has dignity too - just like Jock. To see Dallas, become something that bears little if any resemblance to what Dallas was in 1980 when 90 million Americans tuned in on November 21st to find out who shot JR, would be heartbreaking. To see a show that was the number one show in the world relegated to a streaming site because it can't compete with the biggest shows on TV, to see it get sent down to the minor leagues where it can find a niche audience would be something none of us would ever want to see. It would be like watching that prize fighter you know has taken all the punishment he can and needs to retire, step into the ring in more time and get demolished, leaving the ring a shell of himself, with too few brain cells left to even count his money. I don't want to see Dallas end up in a similar way.
You do realize that while people absolutely love what Dallas started out as, they dislike and even hate what it became, right? There are a few thousand threads here where that sentiment is clearly expressed by most if not all the forum members. What Dallas became is not something to celebrate, or God forbid, continue – what it was is the downfall of what was once the greatest primetime drama series ever known to man.
Even of you decide to disregard all that and go ahead, there are still some major problems with it as far as continuity.
Sue Ellen and JR divorced in season 12, and that was the end of their relationship. They hated each other by then. Their two marriages were both brutally dysfunctional and they both couldn’t have been happier to get rid of the other. So how the hell do you figure Sue Ellen ends up inheriting Miss Ellie’s money? She’s gonna leave it to the cold blooded bitch who tried to murder her son?
No! She’d leave her money to her sons and if she’s got any decency, she’’d treat them equally and give each a third of her money – one third for JR, one third for Bob, and one third for Gary. Probably she leaves some amount of money to Ray too since he was her stepson.
When JR died there’s only one person he’d consider leaving his money to – his son John Ross. Bob would still have his third, and Gary would have his third. Sue Ellen wouldn’t have been left a penny.
Also, John Ross doesn’t have a sister! People absolutely loathed Cynthia Cidre’s blatant changing of what we saw, her willingness to just twist Dallas history into whatever she wanted it to be, so why not learn from her mistakes? If John Ross didn’t have a sister, then he didn’t have one - no matter what that clueless Cidre airhead thinks.
I don't think think that Afton would have touched Jeremy Wendell with a ten foot pole, much less married him! She was, as my kids use to say, "creeped out" by Vaughan Leland to the point where she quit working for JR, even knowing full well that he'd try to ruin her career in Dallas. The idea of sleeping with an old man so turned her stomach to the point where she just couldn't do it, even though she knew she was hurting her singing career by turning JR against her!
Then we consider that Jeremy Wendell expressly said on numerous occasions that he had no wife, that he stayed single for a very specific reason - he wanted no distractions from his career. He wanted to be, and was, as he said, "cold and implacable with no chinks in my armor." That's Jeremy's M.O. That's what he made the conscious decision to do to give him an edge over everyone else and hell, it worked! He became CEO of the biggest oil company in Texas. That was his passion. When young, hot women would hit in him, and some even threw themselves at him, he always resisted the temptation. That's the price Jeremy Wended was willing to pay for greatness. Change that and you destroy the whole foundation of the character.
There’s one more big problem. No Ewing is in the oil industry in your scenario. Dallas is about a family primarily in the oil business! It also secondarily in the ranching business, but first and foremost they are an oil industry family. Take away the oil industry and you take away that which the show is built upon. Jock Ewing had oil in his blood and Miss Ellie knew it when she married him. JR ate, breathed, and drank the oil business. So you have John Ross III "dabbling in business, politics, and ranching"? That makes him a dilettante.
Nobody wants to watch a show about a dilettante. It's only natural that John Ross III would be an oilman. It's his heritage, his birthright, it's something that's bred in him, it's what his father and grandfather were made of, it's what he's got to be.
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stevew
Telly Talk Star
Thank you for your break down. I did not mean for Bobby to walk around in a dress and be called momma. I mean in the Miss Ellie role in a broad sense. And yes this is who Bobby was, not the man TNT showed us. Like his mother her loved the land over the money of oil. Like his mother he loved his family and tried hard to keep them together. Like his mother he was a moral compass for the family. It’s this broad concept not making him mom of the family. It seems to me both of you are way over sensitive about some sort of liberal gender identity issue. That’s not the case at all in my writing, though I suppose it could be. But if my two choices were Bobby and Sue Ellen, and you asked me who should be the moral compass who fights to keep the family together and who should be the business focused parent pushing their son to succeed even if they have to skate the moral line - I’d say Bobby for the first and Sue Ellen for the later. This isn’t some sort of liberal conspiracy to change the world as you know it or the world as you knew it.
As to Sue Ellen verses Jock, good guess. I’m not sure you’re right, certainly not all these decades later (aside from the crap CC gave us). She’s had plenty of time to learn, but more than that, she had the ability to build up a network of allies that would make someone like Jock not as big of a threat as you assume. Jock knew, as evident through his interaction with the cartel, the value to his success was beyond the hard work in oil field (Diggers domain). He knew it was his network and Sue Ellen, at this age, I wouldn’t put it past her to be more than capable. Ironically this was JR’s failure in business, he tore apart networks. If she learned from JR to horde information and from Lockwood to build allies - today she might truly give an old 1st generation roughneck like Jock a run for his money.
No where did I say Sue Ellen inherits Miss Ellie’s money. I said it goes to a foundation which Sue Ellen controls. Would I be surprised a foundation which included Clayton’s money included Sue Ellen? No. Would I be surprised that Sue Ellen figures out a way to control said foundation for her benefit? Again no. What people hated about what Dallas become was a joke. Sue Ellen developing into a strong and capable leader of a multi billion dollar foundation is not a joke. Which Ford controls the Ford Foundation today? None. In fact until recently not one Ford served on that foundation’s board. You don’t seem to understand how such work. Is Sue Ellen in the role as leader of an international NGO believable? Yes.
Again you read what wasn’t there. I did NOT say Afton married Wendell. I said she gave birth to his son. I’d even make it clear he raped her and scared the hell out of her to give up her son. But no where do I say they married. It’s hard to defend my ideas when you read into it what you want, things which are NOT there.
The Wendell side of things was a great missed opportunity in the original Dallas and with the right actor, the Wendell Ewing feud could replace the worn out Barnes Ewing feud. The idea with Afton was merely to tie Pamela and Jeremy’s son in a way similar to Pam and Cliff. No I’m not saying copy word for word to replicate these relationships. I’m saying broad concepts. Like Pam defending her brother, even when he’s wrong.
JR could have had many, many children. Just because it was CC’s idea doesn’t mean it was a bad idea. Frankly they could ignore it and use Cally’s child in this role. Though frankly I’d like to see a woman in the role. I always liked Abby Ewing and Angela Channing in similar roles and see no reason why doing such in Dallas makes the show no longer Dallas.
Bobby dabbled in politics, ranching and business. This is NOT uncommon of second and subsequent generations of a wealthy family. But at the heart of the story I suggested as one possible idea is a business called EWING INDUSTRIES, of which Ewing Oil is a subsidiary and is based on Koch Industries - primarily an oil business at its core, much like EO was based on Hunt Oil. Bobby and Sue Ellen are retired from the business, much like Jock was, and the next generation, found with many third generation business families, aren’t involved in the day to day running of the company they inherit but instead delegate to employees. So John Ross could be chairman and ceo, much like when Bobby was running the company. And his sister could play a behind the scenes manipulative role much like when JR was pushed aside for Bobby. That was when Dallas was great. But most of this third generation would not be day to day operatives, if the family had been as successful as it seemed. So yes they’d run the business but use other people to do it for them. Certainly not go into an office everyday to punch a time card and work on the grind stone - that pushes the concept of believability.
Finally there’s no oil man in JR. There was a businessman who happened to be in the business of oil. JR and Bobby and eventually Sue Ellen cultivated money and power, that’s not a dilettante. Maybe Sue Ellen was to start but her character grew into a very capable women. Certainly Bobby’s venture into politics is included here, a move which would make him more powerful. Cattle ranching was a side business and like his father, Bobby retired to ranching and yes that makes sense.
I’m just putting my ideas out there. I’d like to see it continued in some form. I think it can again be as good as it was in its original run in the first 1/2 half anyway, I think it can focus on the family and business dynamics from the original with a new generation and I think it can again be relevant to current events and realistic. If you don’t like my ideas, that’s fine, but to speak for anyone but yourself and to read into what I write what isn’t there is tedious. You most certainly have your opinion and you most certainly are not a neutral party because of it. But then neither am I.
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Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
Sorry if I misinterpreted what you wrote, but I went on what was there as best I could. For example:
She "created" it "starting with Ellie and Clayton's money." True, it doesn't say she inherited it, but there isn't anything there that gives me the idea she didn't inherit it. Now, in your reply, you said "she controls" it, but originally you said she created it with Ellie and Clayton's money, which to me, implied inheritance. After all, usually when someone dies, their money goes to the people they leave it to!
It seems to me that Ellie's money would have gone to her children- JR, Bobby, and Gary and then some to Ray possibly. When JR died, the only reasonable choice for him was to leave it to his son. So I still don't see, why is it that Ellie's money ended up in the control of a woman who tried to murder her son?
There may be some way to get there, but it would be so convoluted! To have the woman who tried to murder your son controlling your money- it's got to be an awfully convoluted process. Some people like convoluted storylines but I don't.
The reasonable thing would be for John Ross to have about a third of her money, Bobby a third, and Gary a third. Clayton's money would almost certainly go to Dusty - you're not going to favor a stepchild over your own flesh and blood and Dusty was his only son.
Putting Bobby in Ellie's role - gender switch, putting Sue Ellen in Jock's role - gender switch, to put JR's daughter (he had no daughter!) in JR's role - gender switch - that's three! You're telling me that's all just coincidence?
To have Sue Ellen even a part of the family at all after what she did, to think that a woman who for the first half of her life did nothing but marry a rich man, get drink and sponge off of his family and say she's going to be in the Jock role, that's just not believable to me. Frankly, Sue Ellen couldn't even carry Jock's jock.
They are nothing alike, not even a little bit. To think a man of Jock's mentality and work ethic would have married a rich woman and then just sat around getting drunk all day, sponging off her family...can you imagine him doing that?
As for being "neutral" what I meant is that since I was looking at this from the outside, that I wasn't involved in it, and therefore have no axe to grind, I can look at it a different way than if I were in it. I said where I thought Garry was out of line and where I agreed with him. I don't even know him, so if I were to be biased at all, it would be towards your side.
I'm sorry that this wasn't an idea of yours that I liked, but at least you know that when I do say I like something you write, it's because I mean it.
Everyone's different but personally, I'd rather know when someone is telling me what he thinks, he really means it, than to have someone always gushes accolade after accolade at everything I do whether it's my best work or something that's far from it because what use is that?
I can't learn anything from someone like that. Not that I'm implying you should change it to suit my taste. My suggestion would be to take what I say, take what another half dozen people here tell you, consider them all and go with the ones you think made the most sense, with the ones who provided the most rational arguments for why they think the way they do about it.
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stevew
Telly Talk Star
There’s everything there to say she didn’t inherit it - it went to a foundation. That means it wasn’t hers. I suppose if you choose to read into that Clayton and Miss Ellie left it to her and then she created something, but as you state that doesn’t make sense. No, “usually when someone dies, their money” does NOT go “to the people they leave it to!” but various charities. Ford Foundation. Gates (including Buffets money) foundation. It’s certainly not convoluted to say Clayton set up a foundation and Sue Ellen was involved and Miss Ellie left her Indy to that foundation.
I’m telling you there’s NO gender switch. Bobby is NOT Miss Ellie. He just fills the role of keeping his family together and caring for the land. He already does later and if CC hadn’t changed him, he’s have done the first. I’m not sure why you’re obsessed with gender switching. Can’t a man live the land and hold his family together. Can’t a woman be successful at business and drive her children to as well?
Marrying rich and getting drunk precludes someone one from success about as much as all the dirty deeds Jock did to get where he’s at. Jock was no saint to be worshiped. He was a throughly horrible human being who justified doing what he had to to create an empire, including pimping out his children when he could justify it. Sue Ellen didn’t spend her life slinging off his family. And in the last 20 we don’t know what she did to create her fortune. Jock himself was based on Big Daddy from Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, who was insinuated had sex with two men living together to get his start. There’s all sorts of seedy skeletons in the closers of men like Jock Ewing, JD Rockefeller, Frederick Trump. A great show doesn’t idolize them. So Sue Ellen has a less then stellar past and crawled her way up. How is that anymore disputable then Jock and Sam Culver’s back story?
I don’t mind you telling me what you think. I mind you reading into what I write. I’m fine with the disagreement, like you don’t want Sue Ellen to succeed in business nor find a way to control Miss Ellie’s money. But the truth is this is feasible and not anymore convoluted than Jocks will. Look into the history of the Ford Foundation and the Hughs Foundation. One thing you can rely on me is when I give ideas they’re based on plausibility and even real situations. I don’t need any accolades at all. That’s not why I share. I do it because it’s on my mind, the story I watched and the real world events I know and I put the two together. I’m not here to learn but to share. I will agree I like to input to take it and play around with my stories. I’m certainly up for changing things all the time. But I’m not going to write a story which was already told for 14 years, though history does repeat itself, not verbatim, and I’m not going to write a story which isn’t plausible.
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Rove
Telly Talk Warrior
I see where you're coming from. I also envisage Bobby now fulfilling the patriarch role. Now in his early 70's he would be a combination of both Jock and Miss Ellie. If the Ewing family are still in control of Ewing Energies he would be - potentially - Chairman of the Board - and also guardian of Southfork. If a continuation was to occur I'd rather see Bobby relaxed. I'm not saying to make Bobby a wimp. The way I see him now is still being a man's man. I'm thinking along the lines when Jock discovered Miss Ellie had breast cancer. The character (Jock) was treated with sensitivity, something I never thought I'd see.
But if Jock was trying to enjoy a quiet beer with the boys and someone thought about taking them on...well hell...expect a swift right hook.
Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
What dirty deeds? The show started when he was retiring so we didn't get to see how he built Ewing Oil. We heard an accusation from Tom Owens in Dove Hunt but how credible was he? We don't know a thing about him except his side of the story. Jock didn't even remember him, so we didn't get his side of the story. Even if we had, like they say, there's three sides to every story - my side, your side and the truth.
Did I say he was a saint? Talk about "reading into" someone's writing.
The reason why I don't think Sue Ellen would be the least bit believable in Jock's role isn't because of how saintly she is or isn't and it's not about Jock being a man and Sue Ellen being a woman. The reason she's not believable "in the Jock role" is because she lacked the qualities she'd need.
The ambition it takes was just not there. She was satisfied with attending a meeting of Daughters Of The Alamo once a week, spending the rest of her time going shopping to see how much of her husband's earnings she could spend and then getting wasted. They didn't show it, but I'm gonna say that when Jock was at that same age, he was being quite a bit more...productive. I'd imagine he was doing the necessary work to learn everything he could about his chosen field, constantly building more expertise, acquiring the necessary skill, and putting in 70 and 80 hour workweeks.
The drive that pushes a person to be among the very best in their field was absent in Sue Ellen. First, she would have needed to have chosen a field and not one she only chose out of spite for Mandy, but one she chose because she had both the desire and the aptitude for that particular field of work to have a shot at actually making it to the top.
How may times did she show an interest in learning about the family business from JR, or ask for a job at Ewing Oil? She's got a husband who is running the biggest independent oil company in Texas and she can't even be bothered to avail herself of the opportunity to learn how it's done. That's impressive!
Even the one time she actually bought a company it was only motivated by a desire to break up Mandy and JR. So, what did she do? She hired Mandy to be the face of the company. Since Mandy was beautiful, sales skyrocketed and Sue Ellen was being praised for her business prowess. Well, the fact that the woman her husband was seeing just happened to have a great body and a gorgeous face is hardly any indication of Sue Ellen's ability to pick the right woman for the job. She hired Mandy for the job only because Mandy just happened to be the woman involved with JR. If you were walking along a stream, stumbled into it and found gold, you could hardly be praised for being brilliant.
According to David Jacobs? Is that what he said?
That's too bad. I'd be learning from every place I possibly could if I wanted to become a good writer. You've got an audience here that's interested in the style and subject matter of your writing. I'd be taking advantage of that to see what gets people excited and what doesn't. I'd be finding out which of my stories make people ask for more, which ones don't, and figuring out what it is that makes the difference.
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Taylor Bennett Jr.
Telly Talk Winner
left hook to the body followed by the knockout right cross was Jock's go-to combination in Landowne!
stevew
Telly Talk Star
That’s what I’m talking about, not a verbatim role as Miss Ellie but the glue that holds together the Ewing family.
stevew
Telly Talk Star
left hook to the body followed by the knockout right cross was Jock's go-to combination in Landowne!
I’d want to see a line after a fight where Bobby says something like “Good for a man to get into a fight now and then.”
stevew
Telly Talk Star
If you believe a poor boy who raised JR Ewing and created an empire against businessmen like Hunt and Getty was an honorable businessman then you really are into fiction. You didn’t say he was a saint but implied he was superior to a woman not fit to carry his jock.
You make huge assumptions about Jock as a young man. There’s no reason to believe he spent so much effort to learn the oil business. Why? A desire to go from poor to rich? I’m
Sure he did, at least to learn the basics of the industry, but the real time spent was to figure out how to network to create his business.
Yet you don’t make the same assumption about Sue Ellen. She learned her skills and rose to the top of her profession, the most beautiful woman in Texas. She then mastered the trophy wife (not the young whore type). If you think it’s shopping and teas you know nothing about their work nor the cut throat snobbery of the networking they master. Case in point, how did Bill Gates create Microsoft? His mother’s charity work connections introduced him to the man who ran IBM. Sure in school he learned commuter programming and spend hours developing it but his mother, his school network his use and management of talent - networking information - created his “empire.” Yes she became a drunk. She also made powerful men fawn, like Clayton Farlow. She built her own business (regardless of her initial motivation) and then used allies to take control of West Star away from JR. She did pick a field, networking. She mastered it. That’s how you get to the very top of business. Working hard is what those on the very top of the business world tell those who work for them. JR didn’t even bother to learn how it’s done. He destroyed networks, making enemies of the cartel. Jock, Bobby and Sue Ellen built networks (unless we’re to believe CC’s story where DelSol just showed up).
The entire show was a combination of A Cat on a Hot Tin Roof and Giant, toss in a bit of Cane and Able and Romeo and Juliet. I’m not sure what he admitted to but it’s very obvious when looking at these stories. When I say a broad concept for these characters, it’s the same approach he had. He took these characters and created his own story from the broad concepts.
Writing is a hobby. I’m not interested in making more of it. It’s nice to have an audience but I write for me and anyone who appreciates it. I’m not looking to market it. However I do believe it would be marketable to many loyal Dallas fans, far greater than what CC created, and I believe it would be marketable to many new fans, because like Jacobs, it takes the ideas of others, gives them a twist, and infuses real stories to create something new. Frankly, I think your concerns are dated and missing huge pieces of reality. I don’t think the gender issue is wildly held. I don’t think you understand the dynamics of wealth from the running of businesses through diverse investments, hired hands and foundations / funds. I think your view of Jock, businessmen and hard work is idealized compared to the reality of managing information and networking. My writing comes from a different perspective on reality I suppose. But I will remain loyal to it. Now if hired to write or consult on a new Dallas, I think these perspectives would be valuable as part of a team. It would be the show runners responsibility to find the right balance to create high ratings. I respect your opinion but I disagree with much of your perspective you parade as facts.
stevew
Telly Talk Star
Seems there´s a catfight going on here... How fun!!
No, though I may be too blunt. I’m often accused of such. I honestly don’t mean to be insulting, if anything comes off as such. Maybe that’s why I have a fondness for characters like JR, Abby and Angela Channing. I’m really a nice person, but then again, don’t you know rich folks is always nice (not happy as JR would have us believe) - lol. Awe but yes fun. I enjoy a good debate.
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Kenny Coyote
Telly Talk Star
Ha! She wasn't even the best female networker in the family. Ellie and Donna were both better at that. She wasn't even well liked at Southfork. Why? She treated Pam like crap, treated Lucy like crap, she had an abrasive personality and acted superior to everyone. Donna wouldn't speak to Sue Ellen and Donna actually was a capable woman!
All that happened, and then she woke up and found herself in the detox ward. She went through the DTs! Only the most hardcore alcoholics go through those and you're talking about her like she's some classy, respectable lady. But OK, let's disregard the detox incident, and disregard the almost statuary rape charge for her screwing Peter (the Dallas equivalent of screwing the boy who cleans the swimming pool), let's disregard when she actually did go to jail, her time spent in two sanitariums, and, ya know, all those wonderful contacts she must have made in those places to add to her "network."
This is too easy, so I'll just ignore that she had no self-control or ambition or drive and go on to the time she actually did do a little (very little) business:
Even the one time she actually bought a company it was only motivated by a desire to break up Mandy and JR. So, what did she do? She hired Mandy to be the face of the company. Since Mandy was beautiful, sales skyrocketed and Sue Ellen was being praised for her business prowess. Well, the fact that the woman her husband was seeing just happened to have a great body and a gorgeous face is hardly any indication of Sue Ellen's ability to pick the right woman for the job. She hired Mandy for the job only because Mandy just happened to be the woman involved with JR. If you were walking along a stream, stumbled into it and found it was full of gold, you could hardly be praised for being brilliant.
Read that last sentence again Steve. You're praising Sue Ellen for rising to the top of her profession when all she did was stumble into a stream filled with gold.
Sue Ellen was more beautiful than Pam? Really! Sue Ellen wasn't even the most beautiful woman at Southfork!
Sue Ellen wasn't even the most beautiful woman in her company either. When Mandy went to California and Sue Ellen's sales plummeted, why didn't Sue Ellen rescue her company by posing as the face of the company? Surely if she was "the most beautiful woman in Texas" she could have had business picking up, but she didn't. She couldn't have. Your estimation of her beauty is as inflated as your estimation of her aptitude for business!
Based on what? Your Dallas themed fiction doesn't appear to even be creating much of a buzz here to be honest, and people here love Dallas.
Your attitude about the marketability of your writing and the actual number of people who gave positive comments regarding your writing in the writing forum here...they just don't add up, bud.
There's a disconnect somewhere. Either your ego is vastly inflated, or the people here just don't get interested in Dallas themed stories. Which one do ya think it is? Are the Dallas fans here just not loyal enough?
Don't worry. You never will.
Ha ha ha! Believe what you want, man. Believe what you want.
You're not too blunt. You're just unteachable. Nobody can tell you anything. You respond to criticism poorly. You're convinced you've got it all figured out and you don't. You're the kind of guy who if you could buy him what he's worth and sell him for what he thinks he's worth, you'd make a fortune.
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stevew
Telly Talk Star
I’ll agree that Ellie and Donna were better at networking than Sue Ellen but that doesn’t mean she didn’t figure it out. And in the course of the series she most certainly did. Maybe no character actually mature more, until CC sent her backwards.
Peter was no more statutory rape than Anna Nicole Smith was for Howard Smith. There was a class to Sue Ellen. She certainly wouldn’t be the only woman or man to struggle with alcoholism and become successful. Your understanding of women of this class seems off. The way she treated Pam would not be unusual. Certainly not everyone, but she would not be alone. I’m praising her for raising to the top of her profession of networking. Plush she’s had 30 years to improve. You don’t have to agree that this is who she became, but you don’t get to say it’s not possible. It is very possible among this class of women (and men), multiple marriages, late in life business, drug addiction.
Again it’s your opinion you’re trying to masquerade as fact. Sue Ellen and Linda Gray was a day still is the most beautiful woman to grace South Fork and as we’re stating opinion as fact - that is a fact. I do understand business and people like her and it’s not an over estimation - so those pieces are facts, especially when we know little oh her pre Dallas background and little of the last 30 years in her life. As for beauty, I’ll stick with those facts. I’m fact in classic Hollywood her vulnerability makes her even more beautiful.
As I says that’s not why I write. I see no more “buzz” for my ideas than yours or any others. I believe it based on other things I’ve seen on tv. My field isn’r writing, which I’ve made clear, and I’m not looking for it to be.
You’re an arrogant man with little knowledge of the people and situations of which you talk. I don’t need nor want your teaching. I know my worth and your opinion doesn’t way in to it. In fact your very closing remarks are proof of your over estimation of your worth. A number of your posts show your lack of knowledge of estate planning and business and such, showing you know little to nothing about this world and now you attempt to be insulting. I take criticism just fine from a person in a place to do such. I don’t do so well from someone who is not. In Dallas terms you’re Pam trying telling the Marilee Stone what to wear to the Oil Barons Ball and then throwing a bitch fit when she says thank but no thank you, she likes what she has on. Check yourself first and stop worry about me. I like your discussions before you lower yourself to taking on the role of teacher.
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