Dallas had our attention, but did it have our respect?

[James from London]

She's a flipping dynamo.

Yeah, she's brilliant!

 

[Mel O'Drama]

always wanted to read this but could never seem to find the article.

Actually, The Triumph Of Artifice is quite appropriate for some of this discussion. When I was describing the way we viewed the series' glossiness back on page one, I almost used the word "artifice" to describe it.

The women waking up with makeup on; the polite way everyone interacts without talking over one another; the snappy retorts that characters always have (there was little to none of that very human reflection on a conversation, thinking about what they could have said in response). And the way that when lights are turned off, everything takes on this weird blue hue.

Some of that is just television, of course. But at the time (and as has already been said by others here) production standards were so very different between our two countries that it took some adjustment to the more cinematic tones.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Yeah, she's brilliant!

I'm curious to know if you've read her book, James.

 

[James from London]

The women waking up with makeup on; the polite way everyone interacts without talking over one another; the snappy retorts that characters always have (there was little to none of that very human reflection on a conversation, thinking about what they could have said in response). And the way that when lights are turned off, everything takes on this weird blue hue.

Yes, and also the way that Bobby and Pam's or Jock and Miss Ellie's marriages are either very happy and romantic or they are suddenly "in trouble". There's no casual bickering, no nagging, no moaning about leaving underpants on the floor or not listening when the other one's talking, or any of the stuff that's part and parcel of real-life and Coronation Street (and even Knots Landing, to a lesser extent.)

I'm curious to know if you've read her book, James.

No, but I studied with her and learnt a lot. And she directed me in a play. I haven't seen her for some years but she's a total ball of energy, zipping all over the world doing her "crazy lady" workshops, as she calls them. She thought it was really funny that I remembered her from Dallas.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Yes, and also the way that Bobby and Pam's or Jock and Miss Ellie's marriages are either very happy and romantic or they are suddenly "in trouble". There's no casual bickering, no nagging, no moaning about leaving underpants on the floor or not listening when the other one's talking, or any of the stuff that's part and parcel of real-life and Coronation Street (and even Knots Landing, to a lesser extent.)

Yes. The lack of nuance when it comes to communication took some suspension of disbelief. How many times was Pam on the verge of telling Bobby something really important only for him to talk over her and then it never got said. It's frustrating, but it worked from a dramatic angle, and Dallas seemed very much to like to replay those things that work.

Along "underpants on the floor" lines, were toilets a thing in Dallas? I remember Richard Avery flushing Lilimae's mousse down the Ewings' WC in Season One of Knots, which seemed quite daring for the time and genre. And of course Abby retrieved Olivia's stash years down the line. I'm sure Dallas must have had a loo at some point, but I struggle to remember a scene.

No, but I studied with her and learnt a lot. And she directed me in a play.

That's wonderful. Seems she's not the only dynamo. What was the play?

She thought it was really funny that I remembered her from Dallas.

And thrice over!

 

[Kenny Coyote]

When I was describing the way we viewed the series' glossiness back on page one, I almost used the word "artifice" to describe it.

What did you enjoy more: The gritty, rugged western style of early Dallas had in the years when Jim Davis was still alive or the "glossy", more glamor oriented style they adopted in later years? I liked the gritty, rugged, modern day western style better.

 

[James from London]

were toilets a thing in Dallas?

Well, there was the occasional powder room scene of course, and Tommy MacKay hooked up with a drug dealer pal in a men's room and I think the final ever scene between JR and John Ross on New DALLAS also took place in a men's room, but in 396 episodes I don't think we ever saw an actual toilet.

And of course Abby retrieved Olivia's stash years down the line.

Also Anne flushed her blackmail cuttings and Peter Hollister his fake mother's heart pills down the loo.

What was the play?

'Measure for Measure'. It was the first time I'd done Shakespeare and she convinced me that I could do it.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

What did you enjoy more: The gritty, rugged western style of early Dallas had in the years when Jim Davis was still alive or the "glossy", more glamor oriented style they adopted in later years? I liked the gritty, rugged, modern day western style better.

As a rule I'll take grit over glamour more often than not. I think Dallas did a nice job of balancing the two a good deal of the time, though, so I don't necessarily view them as that distinct (even though I get what you mean about the changing tones between the early years and the later).

Tommy MacKay hooked up with a drug dealer pal in a men's room

Also Anne flushed her blackmail cuttings and Peter Hollister his fake mother's heart pills down the loo.

There's a definite trend of associating toilets with illicit activity in the Ewingverse. Much like multi-storey car parks, I suppose*. They're places that one goes to do things that nobody will know about because the spaces are too mundane or vulgar for most of the characters to even know about.

*Although Knots gave us that cracking Season Four long goodbye between Gary and Val in the car park.

'Measure for Measure'. It was the first time I'd done Shakespeare and she convinced me that I could do it.

I'm not au fait with the play, but I've just read a little about it and it looks pretty challenging. Wikipedia tells me it's one of Shakespeare's "problem plays" because of the themes and tone, so I imagine it was trial by fire for you when it came to performing his work.

 

[James from London]

As a rule I'll take grit over glamour more often than not. I think Dallas did a nice job of balancing the two a good deal of the time, though, so I don't necessarily view them as that distinct (even though I get what you mean about the changing tones between the early years and the later).

I always think of the Jock years as being darker and more dysfunctional (which I like) as symbolised by Jock's den, a place of shadows and secrets, which was then replaced by Miss Ellie's kitchen, which was a lot brighter and cosier and slightly less exciting.

There's a definite trend of associating toilets with illicit activity in the Ewingverse. Much like multi-storey car parks, I suppose*. They're places that one goes to do things that nobody will know about because the spaces are too mundane or vulgar for most of the characters to even know about.

Yes! When Sue Ellen sees JR coming down the stairs at Lucy's wedding and asks where he's been, he claims to have been answering a call of nature when really he's been in bed with Afton, so even then it's associated with deception. JR would never really go to the toilet! (Unless it's the disabled one Larry Hagman used to talk about on chat shows.)

I think the only person in the Ewingverse to ever sit on a toilet (lid closed, obviously) is Joe Cooper when he was trying to get through to Val after she took refuge under a mountain of bubbles in her bathtub.

I'm not au fait with the play, but I've just read a little about it and it looks pretty challenging. Wikipedia tells me it's one of Shakespeare's "problem plays" because of the themes and tone, so I imagine it was trial by fire for you when it came to performing his work.

It is a bit of a monster, but I had quite a nice medium-sized part to dip my toe in with.

 

[Barbara Fan]

No, but I studied with her and learnt a lot. And she directed me in a play. I haven't seen her for some years but she's a total ball of energy, zipping all over the world doing her "crazy lady" workshops, as she calls them. She thought it was really funny that I remembered her from Dallas.

off topic
@James from London - I miss the old Forum 2000 to 2016 for about 1000 different reasons and one of the reasons is the title post of the decade

Im sure it was you who had the title thread "Wanda Frick just rotated my pelvis!" (or similar)

There really isnt anything to top that!

re toilets on Dallas - Mandy Winger flushed a rather nice bracelet given to her by JR down the toilet in S8/dream season
I think it was the only time i saw a flushing toilet

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

I think the only person in the Ewingverse to ever sit on a toilet (lid closed, obviously) is Joe Cooper when he was trying to get through to Val after she took refuge under a mountain of bubbles in her bathtub.

The closest we get to full toilet that I can recall in Dallas is the early episode where JR's struggling with the aftermath of a big night with Willie Joe and Jeb, and Miss Ellie pops in, apparently sees (and/or smells) him in the bathroom and makes a disgusted face.

I think they should have shown a manic mid-period Cliff Barnes having one of his mini nervous breakdowns while on the toilet.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

No, but I studied with her and learnt a lot. And she directed me in a play. I haven't seen her for some years but she's a total ball of energy, zipping all over the world doing her "crazy lady" workshops, as she calls them. She thought it was really funny that I remembered her from Dallas.

this video you posted a while back is spectacular:

("that's right, Milandra, I'm going to Greece for SEX!!")

 

[Kenny Coyote]

I always think of the Jock years as being darker and more dysfunctional (which I like) as symbolised by Jock's den, a place of shadows and secrets, which was then replaced by Miss Ellie's kitchen, which was a lot brighter and cosier and slightly less exciting.

I think the earlier years were deeper and more earthy. The middle years were great too, but in a more flashy 1980s type of way; it's a different style.

There's a post in another thread that I think applies to to this thread too:

http://www.soapchat.net/threads/do-you-consider-dallas-to-be-art.7559/page-3#post-181024

 

[Lastkidpicked]

What did you enjoy more: The gritty, rugged western style of early Dallas had in the years when Jim Davis was still alive or the "glossy", more glamor oriented style they adopted in later years? I liked the gritty, rugged, modern day western style better.

As a rule I'll take grit over glamour more often than not. I think Dallas did a nice job of balancing the two a good deal of the time, though, so I don't necessarily view them as that distinct (even though I get what you mean about the changing tones between the early years and the later).

And this is where the Dallas writers got it just right. Jock, Miss Ellie, Punk Anderson, Mavis Anderson-- they had grit. You could see it by the way they dressed and the way they spoke.

The younger generation had more polish. Kind of like what we see in real life.

 

[James from London]

re toilets on Dallas - Mandy Winger flushed a rather nice bracelet given to her by JR down the toilet in S8/dream season
I think it was the only time i saw a flushing toilet

Oh yes of course!

this video you posted a while back is spectacular:

Ah, lovely to see her again.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

I always think of the Jock years as being darker and more dysfunctional (which I like) as symbolised by Jock's den, a place of shadows and secrets, which was then replaced by Miss Ellie's kitchen, which was a lot brighter and cosier and slightly less exciting.

That makes sense to me.

When Sue Ellen sees JR coming down the stairs at Lucy's wedding and asks where he's been, he claims to have been answering a call of nature when really he's been in bed with Afton, so even then it's associated with deception. JR would never really go to the toilet!

And I suppose technically he was telling the truth (albeit in a devious way) to say that he was answering a call of nature.

I think the only person in the Ewingverse to ever sit on a toilet (lid closed, obviously) is Joe Cooper when he was trying to get through to Val after she took refuge under a mountain of bubbles in her bathtub.

I wonder if it's being an outsider that allowed him to take such a liberty.

Thinking about it, the bath was something of a sanctuary on Knots. There was a similar scene where Laura retreated to her own bubble bath after a run-in with Ruth, only for Greg to come in and speak to her.

It is a bit of a monster, but I had quite a nice medium-sized part to dip my toe in with.

Oh great.

this video you posted a while back is spectacular

Oh - she's very likeable indeed. And that class looks pretty intense.

 

[James from London]

Bobby and Pam's or Jock and Miss Ellie's marriages are either very happy and romantic or they are suddenly "in trouble". There's no casual bickering, no nagging, no moaning about leaving underpants on the floor or not listening when the other one's talking, or any of the stuff that's part and parcel of real-life and Coronation Street (and even Knots Landing, to a lesser extent.)

To bring us full circle, I should have added The Sopranos to that brief list. For all the wealth and violence and criminality surrounding it, the marriage of Tony and Carmela Soprano has to be one of the most “real” yet compelling (and frequently very funny) in TV history:

 

[Mel O'Drama]

I should have added The Sopranos to that brief list. For all the wealth and violence and criminality surrounding it, the marriage of Tony and Carmela Soprano has to be one of the most “real” yet compelling (and frequently very funny) in TV history

That video led me into a little wormhole of The Sopranos clips: "AJ doesn't know what gutters are"; then a Tony and Carmela argument; "Tony slaps AJ"; "Tony and Meadow talk about blacks"; "Tony sets Jackie straight"; "Tony Soprano and Meadow's boyfriend".

Real yet compelling sums it up perfectly. Even dipping in I found myself believing those relationships in all their flawed dysfunction, but with a sense of connection underneath.

I really do need to explore the series more closely some time. A friend introduced me to the Pilot some years ago, but it was very late and I was struggling to stay awake, so I wasn't as appreciative as I could have been.

 

[James from London]

A friend introduced me to the Pilot some years ago, but it was very late and I was struggling to stay awake, so I wasn't as appreciative as I could have been.

Yes, I realised early on it's the kind of series you need to pay attention to, which in my case translates to: not the ideal thing to put on after a night in the pub!

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Yes, I realised early on it's the kind of series you need to pay attention to, which in my case translates to: not the ideal thing to put on after a night in the pub!

I think this is why I watch so few of these kinds of series in recent years. I'm so determined to give it my full attention and maximise the impact that I have a philosophy of not doing anything else while watching, and only viewing when my concentration is good. Which is surprisingly restrictive.

Maybe I just make life difficult for myself.