CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
I'm not sure Jock would have ever needed to give the power speech to JR - he already knew.
I guess if he had given the speech to JR, I think it would have been very early in JR's life.
I'm not sure Jock would have ever needed to give the power speech to JR - he already knew.
I guess if he had given the speech to JR, I think it would have been very early in JR's life.
DallasFanForever
Telly Talk Supreme
I can see J.R. saying “Yes daddy ur right. I’ll never question you again. It’s ur company.” Then as he walks away he looks back and mutters under his breath “I’ll show him just who Ewing Oil really is!”
stevew
Telly Talk Star
I think it wouldn’t have happened publicly. Jock would have known publicly he couldn’t out JR in that position. Privately it would have been more passive with JR saying “Yes sir.” But even privately JR would have worked behind the scenes to neutralize his father if necessary. He wasn’t above justifying his actions. He was a lone wolf who no one cared about, or so he came off as such, not the favorite to either parent, not lived by his wife, used to do his dad’s dirty work, to take care of his mom when her sons couldn’t, for his money by his wife, even Bobby fought him for Ewing oil despite not really wanting it and know the promises made to JR. JR had nothing to loose but money and he proved that time and time again.
stevew
Telly Talk Star
Reminds me of a story about Henry Ford and his son. His son died and the company was in ruin by the time we get to WWII. His grandchildren adored their father and dislike the old man who made him miserable. His daughter in law threatened to sell her considerable share of the company and walk away or he could back down. He backed down. No king rules for ever. What you know of as Ford Motor, Henry Ford II created. What Jock set in motion destroyed his business. It no longer exists. What we saw later was a different business. Miss Ellie didn’t back her son like Eleanor Ford did. She tried to stop a fight instead of giving JR what she knew Jock owed him, what JR sold his sole to get all because Bobby was willing to fight for something he didn’t even want.
bmasters9
Telly Talk Mega Star
And as such, would have formed the basis of what J.R. would become (considering the wording was, "Real power is something you TAKE!").
Seaviewer
Telly Talk Warrior
Interesting that he would think of it a person at all. Even more so as interchangeable with himself.
We could include this in the thread about things that were unrealistic. The fact that a company is a separate legal entity was ignored for the sake of dramatic conflict.
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Jabari Lamar
Telly Talk Fan
Yes, that is true. As others have since noted, the running of Ewing Oil was often unrealistically and inconsistently portrayed. In the seasons with Jock still alive, it was sometimes shown as if it was basically some Mom n' Pop family-run local retail store, where the store-owner could just walk in and take some cash from register to pay for his flat tire or something. But this was a major corporation, supposedly the largest independant oil company in the state, if not the nation. Even as a privately-held company, there would be rules and procedures in place before anyone could just withdraw millions from their accounts.
And yes, the whole "nobody gives you power" speech is great for dramatic purposes, it really shows a weakness in Jock's mindset. A real leader knows when to delegate responsibility and to trust that person you delegate to. He put Bobby in charge, practically begged him to do it when J.R. was shot, and then when J.R. recovered and rightfulled expected his job back, he still backed Bobby. Well, if you're going to do that, then yes Bobby needs to be consulted before Jock makes any major decisions regarding the company, especially use of company funds. It's just irresponsible not to.
It'd be like if I'm going out of town on vacation for 2 weeks and I ask you to housesit for me and you agree, and then a week later some other friend or relative is coming to town and ask me if they and their family can stay at my house for a couple of days and I just say yes without asking or telling you. So then there you are sitting in my house minding your own business when a bunch of strangers show up and say they're moving in. Yes, technically, it's MY house, and I have the right to invite anyone I want to to stay there, but it would be inconsiderate to you under those circumstances, I should check to see if you're okay with the sharing the place first.
Jabari Lamar
Telly Talk Fan
Well, you're in the right ballpark, but it's not quite how you report it here. He didn't sell a little every day, and when he did sell, people noticed, as these filings are public info. But, yes, over the years he's sold most of the stock he's held since the company went public, in order to fund his lifestyle, charitable contributions, and other investments. That's the thing, as I'm sure you already know, when most people read about someone's net worth via shares in some company, they often think in terms of money, but you don't actually have money unless you sell the shares. But the very process of selling the shares can lead to you losing money. If, at the height of Microsoft's industry dominance while he was still running it, Bill Gates were start selling huge amounts of his shares, the market would assume something was wrong and other shareholders would also start selling and that would lower the price for everyone, including those who aren't selling. Also another thing shows like DALLAS and others that deal with businesses like this, get wrong is that they act like you have to own at least 51% of a public company to be in control, but that's also not true and rarely the case with most major companies. You just have to be a sizable share-holder and have other major share-holders who will back you when needed. I just did some quick checks, and as examples Mark Zuckerberg owns about 29% of Facebook's stock, which is enough for him to basically maintain complete control of the company. Jeff Bezos "only" owns around 11% of Amazon, but that's still enough for him to run the company and remain the richest man on the planet. And as of last March, when he formally stepped down from the board of directors, Bill Gates owns 1.3% of Microsoft, which accounts for $16 billion of his estimated $115 billion fortune.
One contrast is the Walton family. Collectively they own just over half of Walmart, but that's still spread out over 7 siblings, cousins, and a grandson.
Jabari Lamar
Telly Talk Fan
Yep. Remember how he reacted when Bobby got that refinery, which made Jock proud. He told Sue Ellen he was going to stop Bobby even if he had to destroy Ewing Oil to do it! J.R. wasn't going to be outdone by anyone.
stevew
Telly Talk Star
Maybe not literally every day but the concept is the same - sell so little that no one notices, and not that no one really notices but that the stock market doesn't react harshly. The thing is that there is so much more shows like this could do to be of interest, be more realistic, and be even more dramatic. Some companies are private, like Koch Industries, with lots of drama. Then there's Walmart with trusts and continuing to acquire shares. Then like Microsoft, Bill Gates has managed to put his vast wealth into a private investment company so when certain stocks go down his wealth is little impacted, unlike other who's wealth would be greatly impacted. But the real play isn't wealth as you not and Forbes makes a big deal of, but diversifying and hiding wealth, wealth which generates income, income which is the key here. I remember one year Forbes reported each Walton child make in excess of 450 million after taxes off of Walmart, that was the same year Mayweather made 300 million off boxing and endorsements prior to taxes and all those expenses being taken off the top. But the game is also about power so while several dozen Ford family members own just 2% of Ford Motor Company, their special class of stock makes that 40% of the vote and Delaware law (where the company is incorporated) makes that basically control. These things I have always felt if properly researched and with a knowledgeable consultant would make a story surrounding business that much more dramatic (and believable) - in my opinion anyway.
stevew
Telly Talk Star
I also think by just leaving it, they miss an opportunity, a dramatic opportunity. So we all know JR was dad's go to man and would have never confronted his father, just said yes sir. But Bobby could have said, no that's not how it goes daddy, so I'd suggest you buckle up because you're going on one hell of a ride and then start the fight for control of the company he founded. Now most would say Jock of course wins, but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a lot Bobby could grab on to that would have given him an advantage, taxes not paid, shady deals, bribes, lots of stuff Jock could face when Bobby "takes" power from his father and in his deals is "given" power by the cartel. Just some ideas.
Lastkidpicked
Telly Talk Dream Maker
This is one of the scenes that I remember vividly from the original broadcast and is the EXACT scene I think of when somebody mentions Dallas. It sums up J.R. and his relationship to family and Ewing oil perfectly.
It's on youtube. Watch it when you have a minute. It's worth it!
. . . And the student becomes the master!
stevew
Telly Talk Star
That’s what Dallas TNT was missing!
Lastkidpicked
Telly Talk Dream Maker
TNT Dallas was missing those storylines that have you looking forward to the next episode.
We did an Original Dallas re-watch last summer, and especially during the battle for Ewing Oil, we had to FORCE ourselves to limit the rewatch to one episode per day. It always had us looking forward to the next episode!
Good times. . .
Jabari Lamar
Telly Talk Fan
Right, that's another thing TV shows and movies that deal with large corporations also often overlook, and admittedly a lot of it's above my head (and most of the audience which is likely they overlook it, for simplicities sake), all "shares" aren't always equal. Many companies will have "Class A" shares, which are reserved for management, as they include extra voting rights, and "Class B" shares which are sold on the stock exchange, and have the same financial worth, but less voting rights. These are the kinds of things that could have been utilized more on DallasTNT, with Ewing Energies being a public company as a way for John Ross and Christopher (and perhaps other family members like Lucas) to vie for control of the company.
stevew
Telly Talk Star
I would have made it very complex so that viewers have to figure out what heck is going on. I think that's part of what keeps a person's attention in a drama series. The key is character development, which TNT ignored for constantly shifting characters so not only did you not feel development happen, you had no idea who they were and what to expect. Then in a drama, legal, medical, political and even business it's this attention to detail, even it if goes over the audiences head, that seems to get people to take it serious.
My take for going into 2012:
JR has retired to his yacht having mastered Texas oil:
1) Ewing Oil: having "stolen" it from Bobby and Sue Ellen (bad idea to ignore the movies in my opinion) in the unseen years. Ewing Oil is a private oil exploration company, the world's largest pureplay, private oil company.
2) The Trident Corporation, JR is the largest stock holder after several mergers what has become of West Star, he manages to hold control the giant corporation. He splits the company like ConocoPhillips making Trident only refineries and gas stations and Ewing Oil acquiring it's oil fields.
3) Lone Start Investments, JR's private holding company of a multitude of businesses from banking to construction, field services, mercenary, and several cattle companies, etc,
There should still be CyberByte, a public tech company.
There should be Barnes Global, a private conglomerate which includes Wentworth Tool and die controlled by the trusts of Pam, Katherine and Cliff.
There should be the Ewing Farlow Foundation Miss Ellie and Clayton set up for almost all of their money and the land of South Fork to protect it. Bobby would have the South Fork Cattle Company (as established in the original series) but the land would be the basis of the foundation. Then we'd find out about the mineral rights trust held by the foundation - up for grabs to drill on South Fork.
note: I have started the show with Miss Ellie's death and John Ross finding out she left him the South Fork House so he can grown close to Bobby and take an interest in the cattle, and Sue Ellen and move in to help raise his son, John Ross IV, unknown mother. I'd have had Callie's son move in to South Fork at John Ross's request and Christopher there because of Bobby (thus everyone but JR who's the puppet master on his ship).
I'd add Ryland Logistics, a public company controlled by the Ryland Family through their Class B shares (much like Ford Motor Company).
JR wants: South Fork's oil, Ryland Logistics and Barnes Global to put together with his assets to create Ewing Industries to leave to his sons.
This would have given us private companies, public companies, special classes of stock, foundations, trust funds, and all the complexities (and the Ewing's all living at South Fork). Add JR's money hidden in pockets all over the world and his political network involving itself in Texas and D.C. politics. The fight would be between Callie's son and Christopher with John Ross in the middle trying to keep his family together. Then I'd bring on J. Paul Wendell, Jeremey's son or grandson.
Just some ideas.
My take for going into 2012:
JR has retired to his yacht having mastered Texas oil:
1) Ewing Oil: having "stolen" it from Bobby and Sue Ellen (bad idea to ignore the movies in my opinion) in the unseen years. Ewing Oil is a private oil exploration company, the world's largest pureplay, private oil company.
2) The Trident Corporation, JR is the largest stock holder after several mergers what has become of West Star, he manages to hold control the giant corporation. He splits the company like ConocoPhillips making Trident only refineries and gas stations and Ewing Oil acquiring it's oil fields.
3) Lone Start Investments, JR's private holding company of a multitude of businesses from banking to construction, field services, mercenary, and several cattle companies, etc,
There should still be CyberByte, a public tech company.
There should be Barnes Global, a private conglomerate which includes Wentworth Tool and die controlled by the trusts of Pam, Katherine and Cliff.
There should be the Ewing Farlow Foundation Miss Ellie and Clayton set up for almost all of their money and the land of South Fork to protect it. Bobby would have the South Fork Cattle Company (as established in the original series) but the land would be the basis of the foundation. Then we'd find out about the mineral rights trust held by the foundation - up for grabs to drill on South Fork.
note: I have started the show with Miss Ellie's death and John Ross finding out she left him the South Fork House so he can grown close to Bobby and take an interest in the cattle, and Sue Ellen and move in to help raise his son, John Ross IV, unknown mother. I'd have had Callie's son move in to South Fork at John Ross's request and Christopher there because of Bobby (thus everyone but JR who's the puppet master on his ship).
I'd add Ryland Logistics, a public company controlled by the Ryland Family through their Class B shares (much like Ford Motor Company).
JR wants: South Fork's oil, Ryland Logistics and Barnes Global to put together with his assets to create Ewing Industries to leave to his sons.
This would have given us private companies, public companies, special classes of stock, foundations, trust funds, and all the complexities (and the Ewing's all living at South Fork). Add JR's money hidden in pockets all over the world and his political network involving itself in Texas and D.C. politics. The fight would be between Callie's son and Christopher with John Ross in the middle trying to keep his family together. Then I'd bring on J. Paul Wendell, Jeremey's son or grandson.
Just some ideas.
Jabari Lamar
Telly Talk Fan
Well you don't want to overdo it. Plenty of shows have lost their audiences after trying to be a little too clever for their own good. You don't want people needed a business degree from Wharton to follow along. So you want to keep things relatively simple. Like, I'm not a hedge fund manager, but I get the gist of what they're doing on BILLIONS just fine.
And, of course, another chance for you to sneakily post some of your fanfiction in the main forum.
Jeremy Wendell never had married or had any children. I know he was an awesome villain in the original series, but there's no way to continue that without a retcon like the kinds that people said they hated in DallasTNT. The McCay boys made more sense as next generation enemies. Or bringing in some heir(s) of Marilee and Seth Stone.
stevew
Telly Talk Star
Well of course not too complex as to loose an audience, buy that doesn't mean you can't have some parts people don't understand. Often people don't understand good medical drama's, but they get it enough to move forward. It doesn't mean they compromise a good, complex story and dumb it down. That's the worst approach. It means they tell a good story and those into it can figure it out, those who aren't can stay interested.
No it's not a fan fiction of mine, at least not that I remember. I might have written a fan fiction of how I'd have done Dallas TNT, but I don't recall. Honestly can't remember. Usually, I write going forward - speaking of which, I am working on a Falcon Crest Fan Fiction that includes John Ross and his sister and a company called Ewing Industries (Koch brother's inspired). Turns out that the mother of JR's daughter was an Agretti heavily invested in CyberByte - if you want to check it out.
The retcon we saw created characters out of thin air. If Carmen had at least been a relative of Teresa's it would have made more sense. But all of a sudden there was a family that no one knew about hanging out at South Fork. We knew little to nothing about Wendel. We cannot say for certain he was never married and certainly cannot say there were not children. I'd stay away from the McKay's because by the time they arrived Dallas was off the rails in my opinion. George Kennedy aside, most of it wasn't worth the paper it was written on but at least it still had Bobby and JR if nothing much else. The Stone's, the Lee's, etc. - I couldn't agree more. Lots of opportunities there for enemies of the Ewings. But other than including James and his children in his will, and maybe an new character out of the child Callie had, I wouldn't pay much attention to the later in life original Dallas. I wouldn't ignore it, just not pay much attention to it. Like wouldn't ignore the movies or TNT, but again I wouldn't pay it much attention (though I like the Rylands for the most part and DelSol).
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Luke_Krebbs_Ewing
Telly Talk Champion
It was a very important company. As an entity it took certain stage in many of the show's storylines, just like Southfork.
I consider both Southfork & Ewing Oil as characters in there own right & central to the show's driving format.
I consider both Southfork & Ewing Oil as characters in there own right & central to the show's driving format.
J. R.'s Piece
Telly Talk Star
I like seeing the oil company logo plastered all over the place, like with Mogul Oil on Mogul/The Troubleshooters. On the company buildings, trains, cars, helmets and their airline, Air Mogul. Mogul have offices all around the world and their head UK building is Mogul House. Mogul House is home to Mogul (Amal) Limited, Mogul (Arak) Gulf Limited, Mogul (Chemical Products), Mogul East Africa Limited, Mogul Eastern Trading, Mogul Egyptian Holdings, Mogul European Limited, Mogul Far East Concessions, Mogul Film Productions, Mogul Gas Development, Mogul Gas Exploration, Mogul Refineries (UK) Limited, Mogul Tanker Co. Limited, Mogul (Texas) Limited, Mogul Holdings Limited, Arctic Exploration Limited, Belmont Oil Co. Limited, Chester (Oil) Holdings Ltd., Chieftain Oil Co. Limited, Dumbarton Marine Oil Co., European Oil Exploration, Kingly Oil Limited and Marine Exploration Ltd..