Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
JR would have tried to find her for his own self serving interest. As long as Sue Ellen was where he wanted her and that was at Southfork, he could care less.
JR would have tried to find her for his own self serving interest. As long as Sue Ellen was where he wanted her and that was at Southfork, he could care less.
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
His motivations may have been sketchy, but at least he would have looked.
Laurie!
Telly Talk Fan
If they didn't want to waste time on Bobby's grief, why did they spend so much more time with Bobby mourning the loss of April than they did for Pam? He went all over looking for her killer and had flashbacks, etc.
I think the powers that were, misjudged the popularity/importance of Pam, Sue Ellen and Miss Ellie (yes, very sexist/misogynistic). They seemed to think they could simply replace them with younger, cheaper actresses and people wouldn't care as long as JR and Bobby just got more screen time.
Instead, they ruined the show in my opinion. It became the Bobby and JR show and in fact, the Larry and Patrick squeeze as much money and perks from CBS as they could, show would be more accurate....trips to Russia, Austria, etc. So to some degree, they were every bit as sexist as the people at Lorimar and CBS. We all know when Larry didn't like or agree with something, he got his way. So obviously he didn't mind the women being treated as replaceable arm candy as long as he kept cashing in.
I also think there were some bad feelings towards Victoria involved in the horrible decision making. The TNT debacle of Bobby gruffly saying, "I mourned Pam a long time ago" also proves that in my opinion. Add the fact that not one of them follows Victoria on social media, invite her to participate in things, etc...and it's very telling....whatever the heck happened.
Sarah
Moderator Emerita
That's utter rubbish. JR and Sue Ellen couldn't live without each other. As far as I'm concerned their bond is a hell of a lot stronger than Pam and Bobby's. Please don't say he couldn't care less. It's simply not true.
I can understand them not wanting to kill the character off, but it's Bobby's reaction, and the way they wrote Pam out that has just never worked for me. It wasn't like Pam had decided she just didn't want to be married anymore; heck, they just found out she might be able to get pregnant. Things were good, and then she was in a terrible accident, that apparently disfigured her so badly that she was traumatized to the point of running away... Was this a rational decision on her part? No, but she wasn't in her right mind, and Bobby just receiving the letter, being mad at her, and compartmentalizing, writing her off.. huh? Obviously the powers that be wanted us to just forget about Pam(for now), and for Bobby to be justified to start getting romantically involved again. I agree that they underestimated the importance of Pam, but while I would have liked for them to have a little more time together, I could have handled her leaving, had the whole plot been done in a believable way.
Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
Lol...Miss Ellie to JR “You’ve neglected that girl from the minute you brought her into this house.” The only time JR went after Sue Ellen was when she was with someone else. As soon as he got her where he wanted her, it was the same old story.
JR’s catch phrase was “I’ll probably be home late.” Lol
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
JR and Sue Ellen had a complicated and sometimes toxic relationship. But to deny he loved her is foolish.
Every single time he got down, she is the one he turned to for comfort. He was shown to be jealous over her repeatedly. He never left her, even walking away from Mandy for her - not once, but twice.
JR didn't know how to love properly, bur he DID love her.
Man was messed up in the head. I wish the writers had taken the time to show us why.
Laurie!
Telly Talk Fan
To be honest, I think that Pam and Sue Ellen were meant to be stark, contrast characters except the writers (the male ones), didn't seem to know how to write for a strong, independent minded female.
Sue Ellen was taught by her horrible mother to be the doting wife of a rich man and never to act as his equal. Pam was fiercely independent and knew she was supposed to be treated equally. However, the writers would have Pam simply storm away from Southfork as though the issues were all hers and not the reality that Bobby was a horrible person sometimes. So she came across as flaky.
Sue Ellen managed to leave occasionally but only to make JR jealous and wasn't meant to be an admired character. Even when she took over Valentine's and made the movie, it was to make JR crazy; not because she was smart, independent or business savvy.
So in the minds of the writers/producers, women were supposed to be reactionary to their husbands and never actually independent thinkers.
Laurie!
Telly Talk Fan
Yes, that's what I like about Yellowstone. We get little tidbits throughout the storylines that tell us why the characters are the way they are.
The most we got about JR was that Jock spoiled Bobby and it made JR jealous.
Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
You call that love? He viewed Sue Ellen as a possession that he could do anything he want to with. Sue Ellen was perfect for him because she was WEAK!!! That’s not love. He might have deep down cared for her, but he didn’t love her. He literally used to throw her in a sanitarium just so he could mess around. That’s love?
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
JR and Sue Ellen were great when they were together, but it was toxic. I'm sorry to all this may offend, but it was obvious from the start that he wasn't really in love with her. He loved Julie Grey, but couldn't marry her because in his family's eye's, she wasn't anyone. Sue elllen might have loved him at the beginning, but it was the name and power she came to endure. It was a twisted love...
There were times when they worked in the rhythm and the rhyme, but he was never committed to her, and she finally accepted that on later seasons, but tnt regarded that as rubbish.
DallasFanForever
Telly Talk Supreme
I do think J.R. loved Sue Ellen. He might’ve had a strange way of showing it at times but I think he did love her. The speech he makes to her in the hospital as she’s laying there unconscious in season 2 DVD was proof enough for me. He just couldn’t stop himself from hurting her unfortunately; the lying, the cheating, the manipulating, etc. He was never going to win the award for best husband of the year but I never felt he didn’t love her. That’s the way I always looked at it anyway.
Billy Wall
Telly Talk Dream Maker
To me that’s like saying an abusive husband loves his wife. JR might not have been a physical abuser of Sue Ellen, but in many ways he was just as bad. He actually brainwashed her into believing that she couldn’t survive without him. Even Miss Ellie brought this up. Most cheating spouses will at least try to hide their infidelities. JR didn’t give a damn that Sue Ellen knew. As Miss Ellie told him “You’re not even discreet about it.”
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CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
Did JR love his mother? Because he was vile to her at times. He mortgaged her beloved Southfork. Did everything he could to get rid of Clayton. Disregarded her feelings over and over. He knew he was hurting her. He did it anyway.
Did JR love his son? He repeatedly put his own selfish wants and needs in front of John Ross's to the point he emotionally damaged the boy. He knew he was hurting him. He did it anyway.
JR Ewing wasn't capable of love in the way most of us think of as "normal."
But he only every NEEDED two people to love HIM - Jock and Sue Ellen.
As much as he abused her, as much as he hurt her, and much as he pushed her away, she was the ONLY character we ever saw him show any real emotional vulnerability to. And that made him seem a little more human to me.
Did JR love his son? He repeatedly put his own selfish wants and needs in front of John Ross's to the point he emotionally damaged the boy. He knew he was hurting him. He did it anyway.
JR Ewing wasn't capable of love in the way most of us think of as "normal."
But he only every NEEDED two people to love HIM - Jock and Sue Ellen.
As much as he abused her, as much as he hurt her, and much as he pushed her away, she was the ONLY character we ever saw him show any real emotional vulnerability to. And that made him seem a little more human to me.
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
And since we're talking about love...all of those Ewings were messed up. Jock and Ellie were horrible parents. Come to think of it EVERY parent on "Dallas" was a horrible parent.
And as far as love affairs go? Pam and Bobby couldn't keep their relationship healthy either. Donna and Ray had the most normal, stable marriage on the show, then Kaboom! Lucy was an after thought to every other person (no wonder she was so screwed up).
The whole family seemed incapable of real love to me. JR is only only the most obvious example.
And as far as love affairs go? Pam and Bobby couldn't keep their relationship healthy either. Donna and Ray had the most normal, stable marriage on the show, then Kaboom! Lucy was an after thought to every other person (no wonder she was so screwed up).
The whole family seemed incapable of real love to me. JR is only only the most obvious example.
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Sarah
Moderator Emerita
This isn't true. And the same could be said for Pam and Bobby. Pam left Bobby for the most ridiculous reason, and Bobby didn't go after her.
These comments are really putting me off posting here to be honest. So many of us are huge JR and Sue Ellen fans and they were together for a really long time, telling each other they loved one another repeatedly. It may not be a sunshine and lollipops romance but it was real, dirty, true and lasted until the VERY end (JR's death).
It really upsets me to read this. To deny that he loved her and especially that she loved him (he was her life), is very hurtful to their big fans. And as Sue Ellen's biggest supporter to say she only stayed with JR because of money and the name shows me you don't know her character at all. Sue Ellen, and JR for that matter are both extremely complex and to state these things shows you haven't even looked beyond what you see on the surface.
Ugh.
Sarah, I apologized in advance.. I think Larry and Linda had great chemistry, and I thought they were the most interesting couple on the show. Perhaps my saying they never loved one another was hasty/unfair, especially regarding her feelings for him; however, what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it was a healthy kind of love between JR and Sue Ellen. I do think he cared for her, and he might have loved her in his own way, but how could you truly love someone and do the kinds of things he did to her? As far as Sue Ellen loving him, I think that was more plausible, but would she have endured all she did from him had he not been who he was? I think she probably did come to love him; this seems kind of evident after he was shot(the first time), and after he cheated on her during their second marriage, but Sue Ellen was very insecure, and didn't believe in herself until later in the series. I liked how she finally came to terms with the fact that JR was never going to change, and she came in to her own. I didn't like the way that TNT Dallas had her completely regress when it came to JR and alcohol. Again, please don't be offended by what I'm saying. It's just an opinion, and it takes nothing away from my appreciation of their acting and chemistry.
CeeCee72
Telly Talk Star
I don't know how a question about Bobby and Pam morphed into a discussion about whether JR.loved Sue Ellen, but I still say he loved her and think he he didn't is a mistake.
I think the disconnect is because he didn't act as is he loved her. But as I pointed out earlier, JR didn't ACT as if he loved ANYONE.
We saw his guilt after Holly Harwood. We saw his concern after she was kidnapped by Calhoun. He told her he loved her several times (something we never say him say with sincerety to another woman). We saw him turn to her for comfort after Bobby was shot. We saw his STRUGGLE to be faithful (and fail miserably) several times.
Again I say that JR wasn't capable of loving anyone in the way most of us think of love. But he loved her as much as he was capable of. And his own way, he tried, more than once, to make her happy.
I think the disconnect is because he didn't act as is he loved her. But as I pointed out earlier, JR didn't ACT as if he loved ANYONE.
We saw his guilt after Holly Harwood. We saw his concern after she was kidnapped by Calhoun. He told her he loved her several times (something we never say him say with sincerety to another woman). We saw him turn to her for comfort after Bobby was shot. We saw his STRUGGLE to be faithful (and fail miserably) several times.
Again I say that JR wasn't capable of loving anyone in the way most of us think of love. But he loved her as much as he was capable of. And his own way, he tried, more than once, to make her happy.