Picture quality season 9 (10DVD)

[the-lost-son]

Many years ago in the old forum there was a discussion about a general change in filming techniques. This affected most of TV landscape around 1986. If my memory is correct, JamesfromLondon gave a very detailed description/background about these changes back then.

When they released the DVD set of season 9 (10WB) I was happy because, I knew my collection was complete. Back than you never could be sure, if they released the next season, let alone even the full series.

Now more than 10 years later, I am watching this season again. In general I don‘t have high standards regarding picture quality (HD, blue-ray are not a must for me) but the quality here is very, very poor. Especially compared to the last episode of the dream season. I watched the season opening episode directly after Pam waking up, it‘s such a huge drop in quality.

I‘ve stopped watching for now. It spoils my fun if you watch a series about millionaires in such a miserable quality. Even the location shoots don‘t really work, Southfork feels less grande and impressive. The writing is ok (except the dream explanation), some plots are repetitive (Mandy, Wes Parmalee), I don’t like that everyone is so grumpy and miserable for no apparent reason (especially Ray). So I don‘t think my dislike has anything with acting/writing. But the picture quality makes it feel just like a cheap day-time soap.

Does anybody feel the same?

 

[James from London]

JamesfromLondon gave a very detailed description/background about these changes back then.

No, it wasn't me. I'm nowhere near technically savvy enough!

Yeah, there's a definite change in quality, but I love the season so much, I'm happy to overlook it.

 

[Barbara Fan]

Think @garry is the man for DVD info and technical issues although the link below isnt the main one where he explained it

Is this possible?

I have to admit that I liked TNT Dallas camera work better. I liked the high definition better. I wonder if it is possible to redo the original Dallas into high definition. That would be fabulous if it were possible because it is the best of the old and the new. Does anybody know?

www.tellytalk.net

I couldnt believe the drop in quality of S9, especially after the dream season where Dallas and SF looked so great and Victoria P looked stunning

First episode i was convinced my mum and dad needed to replace the TV! As something had gone wrong with it.

 

[the-lost-son]

Think @garry is the man for DVD info and technical issues although the link below isnt the main one where he explained it

Is this possible?

I have to admit that I liked TNT Dallas camera work better. I liked the high definition better. I wonder if it is possible to redo the original Dallas into high definition. That would be fabulous if it were possible because it is the best of the old and the new. Does anybody know?

www.tellytalk.net

I couldnt believe the drop in quality of S9, especially after the dream season where Dallas and SF looked so great and Victoria P looked stunning

First episode i was convinced my mum and dad needed to replace the TV! As something had gone wrong with it.

Thank you. I can understand that. Even the titles are grizzly.

Yes, it was Garry. I remember reading a very detailed explanation +10 years ago. But this one sums it up just as well. Thank you.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Believe it or not, the DVDs for this season are 300% better than how they were originally broadcast. (And, yes, it's one of my favorite years of DALLAS, too).

Site member Al Paige said that what happened (and all the Lorimar shows did this in 1986) was that while networks like CBS were still requiring their primetime dramas to be shot on 35mm film (because of the superior look to video) some production companies were getting around this by using a new, flawed computerized post-production process in which the film pieces were dubbed down to 1 inch video prior to editing (with those film pieces presumably discarded) to avoid the more expensive traditional film lab work.

The problem was that it looked as bad or worse than old style videotape. The old-timers in the lab were apparently horrified that the powers-that-be allowed the show to go out over the airwaves looking this awful, but the bean-counting executives thought the devolution in visual quality was worth the savings.

We were horrified, too., and just couldn't believe it --- as if DALLAS went from looking like motion picture to something that was shot with a camcorder.

It could be fixed, at some expense, if the 35 mm film pieces could be found, and there are also digital tricks available today which could help a lot (and maybe some of these were used -- as I said, the DVDs are far better).

Other shows in the late-'80s were doing something similar: in 1986 and 1987, the broadcast prints for DYNASTY became so ruddy and splotchy and grainy it was jaw-dropping. But the Shapiros own the negative and the Region 1 DVDs for this period are pristine and completely remastered and look far better than when it originally aired,

DALLAS' Season 10 could still use some more work, But somebody would have to care.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I never really had a problem with the change in picture quality, but then again I was very young at the time and maybe I just wasn’t paying attention to those kinds of things.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

A discussion over this season's appeal and/or problems:

Dallas Character - Wes Parmalee story with hindsight | Forums for television shows past and present (tellytalk.net)

 

[Grangehill1]

The drop in picture quality was horrendous. I remember at the time there were letters to the BBC about it.

As I’ve said before the timing was terrible. With the dream explanation, the terrible hair styles and fashions and then the picture quality as well. It was all too much change at once and contributed to the decline of Dallas in the UK at least

 

[Garry]

We have Lorimar-Telepictures Chuck Silvers to thank for the drastic decline in the Dallas picture quality. He was the main advocate of the electronic post production of Lorimar's TV output in 1986, and from 1986-89 Dallas was edited on the Ediflex system. Silvers once said that viewers in the future would only want to see film shot sitcoms in high quality and everything else was inconsequential. He was clearly mad, but his electronic post production process did lead the way to a higher quality digital editing process in the 90's and HD.

Joseph Dervin Jr., vice president of Aaron Spelling Productions, creator of ''Dynasty'' - avoided the electronic post editing system because they couldn't take advantage of the saving involved in putting finishing touches on broadcast tape. They finished their work on film to satisfy European buyers who demanded film copies. Eventually they succomed to editing on the higher quality laser disc.

Leonard Katzman was never happy with the poorer Dallas picture quality and by the final season the show was once again being edited on the old style 35mm process. A physical film print exists of that season.

Warner's still retain all 35mm elements for the 14 Dallas seasons. However the condition of the print elements from 1986-89 are unknown.

 

[the-lost-son]

The sets which were so familiar (Southfork living room, Ewing oil offices, courtroom scenes, wentworth tool&dye) look and feel shabby and low-grade. At first I thought I had already taken out my contact lenses for the night. Obviously I must have been very happy and therefor clouded in my judgment in 2009 when I bought my last set to overlook this terrible downgrade.

We have Lorimar-Telepictures Chuck Silvers to thank for the drastic decline in the Dallas picture quality. He was the main advocate of the electronic post production of Lorimar's TV output in 1986, and from 1986-89 Dallas was edited on the Ediflex system. Silvers once said that viewers in the future would only want to see film shot sitcoms in high quality and everything else was inconsequential. He was clearly mad, but his electronic post production process did lead the way to a higher quality digital editing process in the 90's and HD.

Joseph Dervin Jr., vice president of Aaron Spelling Productions, creator of ''Dynasty'' - avoided the electronic post editing system because they couldn't take advantage of the saving involved in putting finishing touches on broadcast tape. They finished their work on film to satisfy European buyers who demand film copies. Eventually they succomed to editing on the higher quality laser disc.

Leonard Katzman was never happy with the poorer Dallas picture quality and by the final season the show was once again being edited on the old style 35mm process. A physical film print exists of that season.

Warner's still retain all 35mm elements for the 14 Dallas seasons. However the condition of the print elements from 1986-89 are unknown.

Chuck Silvers - and I complained about Michelle Stevens, James Beaumont and all the others for so many years. Unbelievable and frustrating.
Thanks for the detailed background information.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

Very interesting posts!

One problem is that the later years seemed like a run of the mill daily soap opera, and the production values reflected this. Here are two examples:

Look at this picture, and how carefully they blocked the scene. Digger is hunched over and physically shrinking. As if the weight of the world is holding him down. Compare this to Jock. He is standing straight up and tall, daring the world to come at him.

And look at the trees behind them. Are they dead or just dormant? Is this the end of an era or the beginning of a new one?

If you didn't know anything about the show, you could infer a lot about the characters just from this picture.


You can almost feel the breeze. You can almost smell the Texas air. The scene just feels REAL.



Now, compare it to a picture from the later seasons. Everything seems so fake. Pretty, but fake.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Now, compare it to a picture from the later seasons. Everything seems so FAKE.

There was lots of fake stuff in the early seasons, too. We just didn't notice as much because the show worked.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

here was lots of fake stuff in the early seasons, too. We just didn't notice as much because the show worked.

I agree with you, @Snarky's Ghost Let's look at your picture and see why the scene works so well.

They took the time to stage the scene carefully and it shows. Notice that there is a literal wall between Miss Ellie and Jock. Notice that the pool is on one side, the house is behind them, and the audience is in front of them. They are hemmed in.



Here's a more subtle theme. What is even bigger than Jock and Miss Ellie? Southfork itself. Always looming large, always affecting every decision that is made. Yes, it's on a soundstage, but we still see how much time and effort they put into setting up the scene.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

from 1986-89 Dallas was edited on the Ediflex system.

Although a lot of the bugs seemed to be worked out somewhere during Season 11 (per DVD count).

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Firing BBG and hiring Donna Reed, firing Bob McCullough, shooting their shows thru a cellophane transparency --- Lorimar was just batting a thousand in the mid-'80s, wasn't it...?

 

[Billy Wall]

Very interesting posts!

One problem is that the later years seemed like a run of the mill daily soap opera, and the production values reflected this. Here are two examples:

Look at this picture, and how carefully they blocked the scene. Digger is hunched over and physically shrinking. As if the weight of the world is holding him down. Compare this to Jock. He is standing straight up and tall, daring the world to come at him.

And look at the trees behind them. Are they dead or just dormant? Is this the end of an era or the beginning of a new one?

If you didn't know anything about the show, you could infer a lot about the characters just from this picture.

View attachment 26046
You can almost feel the breeze. You can almost smell the Texas air. The scene just feels REAL.



Now, compare it to a picture from the later seasons. Everything seems so fake. Pretty, but fake.


View attachment 26047

I certainly didn’t notice it during its heyday, but now I most certainly do. When they’re on location and in the studio at Southfork is night and day. And I don’t know if you ever noticed, but they had sloppy camera work on occasion in the early years. Sometimes you could see where the set ended, particularly the sky over the house.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

I certainly didn’t notice it during its heyday, but now I most certainly do. When they’re on location and in the studio at Southfork is night and day. And I don’t know if you ever noticed, but they had sloppy camera work on occasion in the early years. Sometimes you could see where the set ended, particularly the sky over the house.

One thing that is fun about watching them film on location: The wind.

I know that the wind was a big problem, especially with the big hair! But I think watching Sue Ellen or Pam trying to get through a scene while the wind was blowing their hair made those early episodes feel even more REAL.

The is a scene where Cliff drives up to Southfork. The wind is blowing so hard that he has to use both hands to shut the car door. Again, it gives us that feeling of realism.

Or the early episodes where the family, including Jock and Miss Ellie are on the patio eating breakfast. The awnings are blowing in the wind and Jock has to carefully hold on to the newspaper as the wind is blowing it while he reads. It adds to the "grittiness" of the early seasons.

 

[mrpitkin]

This drop is quality is actually making want to stop watching!

 

[captainarcher]

Many years ago in the old forum there was a discussion about a general change in filming techniques. This affected most of TV landscape around 1986. If my memory is correct, JamesfromLondon gave a very detailed description/background about these changes back then.

When they released the DVD set of season 9 (10WB) I was happy because, I knew my collection was complete. Back than you never could be sure, if they released the next season, let alone even the full series.

Now more than 10 years later, I am watching this season again. In general I don‘t have high standards regarding picture quality (HD, blue-ray are not a must for me) but the quality here is very, very poor. Especially compared to the last episode of the dream season. I watched the season opening episode directly after Pam waking up, it‘s such a huge drop in quality.

I‘ve stopped watching for now. It spoils my fun if you watch a series about millionaires in such a miserable quality. Even the location shoots don‘t really work, Southfork feels less grande and impressive. The writing is ok (except the dream explanation), some plots are repetitive (Mandy, Wes Parmalee), I don’t like that everyone is so grumpy and miserable for no apparent reason (especially Ray). So I don‘t think my dislike has anything with acting/writing. But the picture quality makes it feel just like a cheap day-time soap.

Does anybody feel the same?

same here, lost interest after the shower scene, everything seems fake and lame

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Despite the crappy visuals (the reasons for which are explained above, and have recently been fixed) and the uber-imperfect use of the dream scenario with which to revive Bobby notwithstanding, Season 10 (DVD) was the last great year DALLAS ever had.