Characters which should have been killed off

[the-lost-son]

I think what really ruined the show apart from the dream season explanation was the departure of Victoria Principal.

Both Hagman & Duffy thought that they were Dallas. In actuality Dallas thrived when it was an ensemble show.

I don't like to say anything bad against Hagman or Duffy but with hindsight both of them thought their importance on the show was what enticed the viewers to watch. Well I'm sorry but both of them couldn't have been more wrong. The fans loved the core cast members. Dallas wasn't about JR & Bobby it was much more than that. Dallas was about the Barnes Ewing feud, Pam & Bobby and the conflict between Jock & Digger and thus Miss Ellie, JR & Cliff; with Pam & Bobby stuck in the middle.

I think Dallas suffered when the focus of the show shifted off the feud. Whilst characters like Katherine Wentworth & Mark Graison added to the drama once they were gone & Dallas reverted to being focused just on JR & Bobby that's when the rot started to set in.

As I've said Dallas was much more than just the Bobby & JR show, which unfortunately is what it became & which I believe drove the viewers away. Viewers not just fans wanted to see JR being a manipulative swine, JR's character got diluted down in the show's final seasons. The writing just wasn't as good any more & without Victoria Principal the writing was on the wall for the show's future.

During the dream season Larry Hagman was unhappy and threatened to quit. If the producers had gotten a definitive date for him leaving the show (which never seemed likely) they would have ended the show. (Barbara Curran‘s book). Additionally they experienced a drop in ratings and credited it to PD‘s absence (which is debatable, although I was glad to have him back.)

Both of them were the best paid actors of the cast. When the ratings kept going down the producers chose to keep their two most recognizable characters. The show‘s budget got reduced on a yearly basis.
First Susan Howard ( unvoluntarily) and Victoria Principal (voluntarily), then Linda Gray. Addtionally Bel Geddes and Keel got sidelined and location shoots reduced to zero.

It reminds me of House MD. After 7 years the character of Cuddy (seven year contract expired) opted to leave, a change of the show‘s general outline, cancelled after its 8th year. Today shows are just cancelled earlier.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

During the dream season Larry Hagman was unhappy and threatened to quit. If the producers had gotten a definitive date for him leaving the show (which never seemed likely) they would have ended the show. (Barbara Curran‘s book). Additionally they experienced a drop in ratings and credited it to PD‘s absence (which is debatable, although I was glad to have him back.)

Both of them were the best paid actors of the cast. When the ratings kept going down the producers chose to keep their two most recognizable characters. The show‘s budget got reduced on a yearly basis.

First Susan Howard ( unvoluntarily) and Victoria Principal (voluntarily), then Linda Gray. Addtionally Bel Geddes and Keel got sidelined and location shoots reduced to zero.

It reminds me of House MD. After 7 years the character of Cuddy (seven year contract expired) opted to leave, a change of the show‘s general outline, cancelled after its 8th year. Today shows are just cancelled earlier.

Dallas sadly was a victim of it's own success. The writers got complacent. They allowed Hagman to strangle hold the show with being the break out character & both him & Duffy thought that their importance on Dallas was what made the show a hit. Unfortunately both Hagman & Duffy were wrong, it's as simple as that!

 

[pete lashmar]

I absolutely see JR as the standout character, he was just delicious to watch and such a brilliantly bad bad character. But I think the characters coming after JR for popularity would be Pam and Sue Ellen as so many storylines and plots were based around them.

I've never thought of Bobby as an audience draw. Yes, he probably was, but more than Pam & Sue Ellen? The vast majority of viewers were women and although they like to see a good looking guy, they can identify with the female characters more.

I've said many times on these pages that for me Cliff Barnes was the most important character in the show, but on a list of crowd pullers I think Cliff would be low on that list.

Although Dallas was an ensemble (an incredible one) you had the characters that drove the show and the characters that reacted to the characters driving the show. The show needed both to make the great drama it gave us.

So yeah, for me, after JR, Pam and Sue Ellen were far more important than Bobby.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I absolutely see JR as the standout character, he was just delicious to watch and such a brilliantly bad bad character. But I think the characters coming after JR for popularity would be Pam and Sue Ellen as so many storylines and plots were based around them.

I've never thought of Bobby as an audience draw. Yes, he probably was, but more than Pam & Sue Ellen? The vast majority of viewers were women and although they like to see a good looking guy, they can identify with the female characters more.

I've said many times on these pages that for me Cliff Barnes was the most important character in the show, but on a list of crowd pullers I think Cliff would be low on that list.

Although Dallas was an ensemble (an incredible one) you had the characters that drove the show and the characters that reacted to the characters driving the show. The show needed both to make the great drama it gave us.

So yeah, for me, after JR, Pam and Sue Ellen were far more important than Bobby.

Dallas was much more than just the JR & Bobby show. :bl2:

 

[Rove]

They had a golden opportunity to not only put Larry and Victoria centre stage, but they had the opportunity of the 2 clashing like never before.

Makes me think they or someone was afraid to let this happen.

and Victoria Principal (voluntarily)

...and if the rumour mill was correct that Victoria had given the producers 2 years notice then what should have transpired during the dream season was having the characters of JR and Pam clash with the story arc lasting 2 seasons. In the end Pam is killed in horrific circumstances with JR indirectly involved. End series.

Viewers might have been mortified at the death of Pam but Victoria was adamant she was finished with Dallas. It would have been best to finish the series on a high and allow it to rest for a continuation later on.

 

[the-lost-son]

...and if the rumour mill was correct that Victoria had given the producers 2 years notice then what should have transpired during the dream season was having the characters of JR and Pam clash with the story arc lasting 2 seasons. In the end Pam is killed in horrific circumstances with JR indirectly involved. End series.

Viewers might have been mortified at the death of Pam but Victoria was adamant she was finished with Dallas. It would have been best to finish the series on a high and allow it to rest for a continuation later on.

In retrospect is that all true. But during the dream season Larry Hagman threatened to leave (and stayed). Patrick Duffy and Barbara Bel Geddes both left and wanted to come back.
So it's understandable that the producers thought Victoria Principal might stay or return.
We don't know how clearly she stated her intentions to leave after season 9 (DVD10). And even she was cleat, BBG probably was another strong person who changed her mind.
Her leaving was devastating, but it wouldn't have saved the show. A Barnes married to a Ewing was a big deal ten years ago, now we're having a middle aged couple with a son. But she was the link betweenthe Ewings and the Barneses

 

[stevew]

I think what really ruined the show apart from the dream season explanation was the departure of Victoria Principal.

Both Hagman & Duffy thought that they were Dallas. In actuality Dallas thrived when it was an ensemble show.

I don't like to say anything bad against Hagman or Duffy but with hindsight both of them thought their importance on the show was what enticed the viewers to watch. Well I'm sorry but both of them couldn't have been more wrong. The fans loved the core cast members. Dallas wasn't about JR & Bobby it was much more than that. Dallas was about the Barnes Ewing feud, Pam & Bobby and the conflict between Jock & Digger and thus Miss Ellie, JR & Cliff; with Pam & Bobby stuck in the middle.

I think Dallas suffered when the focus of the show shifted off the feud. Whilst characters like Katherine Wentworth & Mark Graison added to the drama once they were gone & Dallas reverted to being focused just on JR & Bobby that's when the rot started to set in.

As I've said Dallas was much more than just the Bobby & JR show, which unfortunately is what it became & which I believe drove the viewers away. Viewers not just fans wanted to see JR being a manipulative swine, JR's character got diluted down in the show's final seasons. The writing just wasn't as good any more & without Victoria Principal the writing was on the wall for the show's future.

I agree with you. It seems what they should have done in hindsight was make it the Pam and JR show. Make Pam more Maggie the Cat, more desperate, more cunning - surround her with credible allies that underhand business but do as she says. Pam looses Bobby, her Dad is dead, her mom died after knowing her such a short time, her brother is capable as a lawyer if she reins him in, Donna is a capable and politically connected alley, add others to make up for her lack of business knowledge against JR - so now all she has in her life is to destroy JR and protect Christoper.

With Katherine on the run she takes control of Rebecca’s trust and all that Wentworth money. She creates Barnes Industries: Wentworth Tool and Die, Barnes Wentworth Oil, West Star (take private with refineries, gas stations, and shipping - and Jeremy Wendell) and Bobby’s share of Ewing Oil (she buys it from Christopher’s estate getting him out of the way) - which she intends to take control of along with South Fork and all its oil.

She digs into the trust for the ranches mineral rights to find out that all of Aaron Southworth’s descendants hold an equal share. So:

Miss Ellie

JR

John Ross

Christopher - Pamela buys from her son

Bobby Jr - Jenna has twins, Pamela buys from Jenna their share and as well as their claim to Bobby’s share of Ewing Oil

Lucas - above

Gary - through Abby’s manipulation unknowingly sells his share to Pam

Lucy - sells to Pam not knowing what’s going on - Pam now against Miss Ellie’s wishes and JR’s anger controls South Fork’s oil and pumps it for Barnes Wentworth agreeing to stop only if Miss Ellie creates a trust leaving South Fork to Christopher - she’s fighting for her son.

Now JR is beyond worried. He gets Katherine a pardon and she returns with a 1/3 share of Barnes Industries and a fight over the Wentworth estate. Pair her up with Jack. JR now deals with the devil who killed his brother in order to get South Fork and Ewing Oil for his son. His one and only obsession.

And we’re off.

 

[Sarah]

Dallas was much more than just the JR & Bobby show. :bl2:

Yes but it wasn't just the Pam show either. I do disagree that her departure killed the show or anything close to it. (Sorry).

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Yes but it wasn't just the Pam show either. I do disagree that her departure killed the show or anything close to it. (Sorry).

Yeah but I didn't say it was the Pam show, it was an ensemble show. It was ironically Victoria's departure which caused the ratings to slide, at least in the USA and to keep on sliding.

Once she left the show had to be took in another direction because the Pam character was central to the Barnes Ewing feud. Her departure did contribute to the show slowly losing it's popularity but it was other creative decisions which really were the death knell for the show which I've gone into in other posts.

 

[Sarah]

Yeah but I didn't say it was the Pam show, it was an ensemble show. It was ironically Victoria's departure which caused the ratings to slide, at least in the USA and to keep on sliding.

Once she left the show had to be took in another direction because the Pam character was central to the Barnes Ewing feud. Her departure did contribute to the show slowly losing it's popularity but it was other creative decisions which really were the death knell for the show which I've gone into in other posts.

I accept you didn’t say that, it sometimes just feels that we are supposed to all feel the same way about her and I just don’t unfortunately. als:

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I accept you didn’t say that, it sometimes just feels that we are supposed to all feel the same way about her and I just don’t unfortunately. als:

If we all had the same opinions & likes it would be a pretty poor world. I respect your opinion on Pam.

Dallas thrived on conflict within it's characters & so does this very Forum, which is why I like it so much.

 

[Chris2]

I accept you didn’t say that, it sometimes just feels that we are supposed to all feel the same way about her and I just don’t unfortunately. als:

I do! In fact, I think the show should have been renamed Pammy’s Dallas, and anytime she wasn’t on screen, the other characters should have asked “Where’s Pam?” Or “Did you catch that awesome outfit Pam was wearing last night” or “I really love Pam’s new hairdo!”

 

[stevew]

Yeah but I didn't say it was the Pam show, it was an ensemble show. It was ironically Victoria's departure which caused the ratings to slide, at least in the USA and to keep on sliding.

Once she left the show had to be took in another direction because the Pam character was central to the Barnes Ewing feud. Her departure did contribute to the show slowly losing it's popularity but it was other creative decisions which really were the death knell for the show which I've gone into in other posts.

I wonder if her character had taken on the role of a true rival to JR would she have stayed.

 

[stevew]

I agree with you. It seems what they should have done in hindsight was make it the Pam and JR show. Make Pam more Maggie the Cat, more desperate, more cunning - surround her with credible allies that underhand business but do as she says. Pam looses Bobby, her Dad is dead, her mom died after knowing her such a short time, her brother is capable as a lawyer if she reins him in, Donna is a capable and politically connected alley, add others to make up for her lack of business knowledge against JR - so now all she has in her life is to destroy JR and protect Christoper.

With Katherine on the run she takes control of Rebecca’s trust and all that Wentworth money. She creates Barnes Industries: Wentworth Tool and Die, Barnes Wentworth Oil, West Star (take private with refineries, gas stations, and shipping - and Jeremy Wendell) and Bobby’s share of Ewing Oil (she buys it from Christopher’s estate getting him out of the way) - which she intends to take control of along with South Fork and all its oil.

She digs into the trust for the ranches mineral rights to find out that all of Aaron Southworth’s descendants hold an equal share. So:

Miss Ellie

JR

John Ross

Christopher - Pamela buys from her son

Bobby Jr - Jenna has twins, Pamela buys from Jenna their share and as well as their claim to Bobby’s share of Ewing Oil

Lucas - above

Gary - through Abby’s manipulation unknowingly sells his share to Pam

Lucy - sells to Pam not knowing what’s going on - Pam now against Miss Ellie’s wishes and JR’s anger controls South Fork’s oil and pumps it for Barnes Wentworth agreeing to stop only if Miss Ellie creates a trust leaving South Fork to Christopher - she’s fighting for her son.

Now JR is beyond worried. He gets Katherine a pardon and she returns with a 1/3 share of Barnes Industries and a fight over the Wentworth estate. Pair her up with Jack. JR now deals with the devil who killed his brother in order to get South Fork and Ewing Oil for his son. His one and only obsession.

And we’re off.

I’m going to add here:

Season Finally: With JR bringing Katherine to help him fight Pam Miss Ellie is done, she sells her share of EO to Pam and moves to CA and Knots Landing. Pam takes control of EO and sells its to Barnes Wentworth handing JR a check. Pam has everything. She sells the SF Cattle Co to Barnes Industries and per her agreement with Miss Ellie stops drilling on South Fork, only to slant drill from Ray’s ranch. (Btw I like Ray and Donna’s story in the dream season, I would have left most of it). She then puts the land in a Foundation she names the Robert James Ewing, Sr Foundation. She moves into South Fork with Christopher.

Jeremy Windell blackmails Cliff into selling his 1/3 of Barnes Industries to him and then proposes to Pam. She agrees to marry him. Cliff is suicidal.

JR, Sue Ellen and John Ross move into a mansion in the Preston Hollow neighborhood of Dallas. Katherine signs over her third of Barnes Industries to JR per their deal. When he goes to Pam’s office to confront her, telling her he owns 1/3 of her company, JR also says that Katherine is protesting Rebecca’s will and her ability to leave Cliff and Pam anything according to Herbert Wentworth’s will. He’s going to take from her everything. Then he says that Bobby lied to her. Christopher is really his son and he’s going to take him away from her, and as Christopher now owns South Fork he’ll be acquiring it as well and raising his boys in his family’s house.

Then, since PD choose to return the last scene would be JR looking at Bobby on life support in a comma saying he’s sorry he had to reveal his lie about Christopher, but Pam left him no choice. Bobby’s eyes open - season end.

Sorry off topic as this was about those you’d kill off not keep alive but I would have hoped this would have kept VP on the show and this kept Pam alive. If not Pam could kidnap Christoper and go on the run to hide from JR. She certainly had the money to do it.

 

[Chris2]

I think it would have depended on the audience reaction. Certainly the money would have been there to pay her, without Patrick Duffy there. But if the ratings had continued to decline, she would have bailed. I don’t think she was interested in staying on a sinking ship.

 

[stevew]

I think it would have depended on the audience reaction. Certainly the money would have been there to pay her, without Patrick Duffy there. But if the ratings had continued to decline, she would have bailed. I don’t think she was interested in staying on a sinking ship.

Good point, but if she enjoyed the scenes she might consider it. Or maybe she’d have left anyway but then with Bobby back they could go in another direction, maybe focus more on Wendell as their rival.