When did JR stop being scary?

[Pamela_E]

I have bingewatched the first 9 seasons (DVD) and I am now post dream and suddenly there seems to a shift with the tone of JR.

Perhaps it's the change with characters around him like Sue Ellen sticking up for herself, and as a result changed the tone making him slightly more comedic.

Maybe it happened earlier but I have especially noticed in the first few episodes of season 10.

 

[Frank Underwood]

I personally feel that JR gradually started to lose his edge after season 7, although he still had moments after that where he was quite scary. However, he became completely pathetic by the start of season 12. He no longer instilled fear in people at that point. Rather, he kept putting himself in situations where he was at the mercy of other people.

 

[Sarah]

He lost his edge completely once he and Sue Ellen parted.

Goes back to what that producer said ‘Without Sue Ellen, JR was much less’.

 

[Laurie Marr]

There’s a multitude of reasons for the shift in tone, I think. Many posters have made some excellent observations about the quasi-camp shift in mood. However, you’re correct to fasten upon the specific aspect of JR’s scariness.

In the first few seasons Hagman could be genuinely chilling. The chuckle of self satisfaction was then used more often and eventually this became the default mode captured in a thousand freeze frames. It certainly implicated the viewer in his schemes but as JR’s popularity achieved iconic status the portrayal often became too knowing. The fourth wall was breached on many occasions and inevitably Hagman became more indulgent and somewhat mannered - and that cold sadistic cunning appeared rarely thereafter.

Hagman as JR was often genuinely scary, JR playing JR less so.

 

[Crimson]

There’s a multitude of reasons for the shift in tone, I think. Many posters have made some excellent observations about the quasi-camp shift in mood.

Yes, the show itself shifted tone several times; from the rough and seedy early years to the campier and more frivolous later seasons.

I think too that what JR represented in the early years -- the dark side of Reaganesque greed and pre-AIDS promiscuity -- was just out of fashion by the end of DALLAS. JR was shifted from being an anti-hero to a punching bag.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

In the first few seasons Hagman could be genuinely chilling. The chuckle of self satisfaction was then used more often and eventually this became the default mode captured in a thousand freeze frames. It certainly implicated the viewer in his schemes but as JR’s popularity achieved iconic status the portrayal often became too knowing.

Yes, I'd agree with this.

Hagman as JR was often genuinely scary, JR playing JR less so.

This made me think of a couple of his Knots Landing appearances and how his introductions differed in tone.

The first time JR appeared in late '79 there was something genuinely sinister about him that made me fully understand why Val would feel unsafe seeing him looming in the doorway, and dirty from him entering her home. He pays her another visit a few years later at the beginning of the '82-'83 season and this time it's far more playful. He's still a menace to Valene, but for the audience it's almost diffused by the scenes preceding it where he chuckles in the back of the limo driven by his female-chauffeur-who-looks-like-Sly-but-isn't; then he has an almost pally little exchange with Richard Avery; then as he waddles across the cul-de-sac to Val's door there's this quirky music. It's still a great scene, but it somehow seems to exist on a different level of threat because he's now JR the icon and Larry looks like he's having fun.

Yes, the show itself shifted tone several times; from the rough and seedy early years to the campier and more frivolous later seasons.

For me, the series felt a little "bigger" with almost every consecutive season up to Bobby's return. The shift that felt most noticeable for me came with the beginning of the Fourth Season (or Fifth by DVD count), where lots of the episodes (especially early in the season) climaxed in big set pieces involving location shoots with helicopters, airports, iconic locations and whatnot. All scored with exciting music, and mostly with JR right in the thick of things. It felt bigger and broader, but in a good way. JR was still fun and enjoyable to watch (which is good). Just less scary (which is not so good).

As I recall, the Ewings got richer at this time or shortly after and money talk got bigger. I seem to remember JR and Sue Ellen taking a break or honeymoon in some remote location that the Ewings owned but had forgotten about up to that point. That would have been a big deal a few seasons earlier, but by this time they were Keeping Up With The Carringtons.

As time went on and JR lost his impact, the stetson seemed to become almost a symbol of the menace, rather like the shark's fin in the increasingly cartoony Jaws sequels. The audience had been conditioned so we only had to see it to know that it meant trouble, even though it would never have the raw impact of the original version where it truly felt like anything was possible.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

Once they mellowed the character and turned him into a buffoon who always lost that's when he was less scary.

 

[Michelle Stevens]

For me, by The Dream Season. There were some flashes of the scarier side of JR in remaining five seasons but nothing like in the earlier years.

 

[Sarah]

Yes, I'd agree with this.





This made me think of a couple of his Knots Landing appearances and how his introductions differed in tone.

The first time JR appeared in late '79 there was something genuinely sinister about him that made me fully understand why Val would feel unsafe seeing him looming in the doorway, and dirty from him entering her home. He pays her another visit a few years later at the beginning of the '82-'83 season and this time it's far more playful. He's still a menace to Valene, but for the audience it's almost diffused by the scenes preceding it where he chuckles in the back of the limo driven by his female-chauffeur-who-looks-like-Sly-but-isn't; then he has an almost pally little exchange with Richard Avery; then as he waddles across the cul-de-sac to Val's door there's this quirky music. It's still a great scene, but it somehow seems to exist on a different level of threat because he's now JR the icon and Larry looks like he's having fun.




For me, the series felt a little "bigger" with almost every consecutive season up to Bobby's return. The shift that felt most noticeable for me came with the beginning of the Fourth Season (or Fifth by DVD count), where lots of the episodes (especially early in the season) built up into big set pieces involving location shoots with helicopters, airports, iconic locations and whatnot. All scored with exciting music, and mostly with JR right in the thick of things. It felt bigger and broader, but in a good way. JR was still fun and enjoyable to watch (which is good). Just less scary (which is not so good).

As I recall, the Ewings got richer at this time or shortly after and money talk got bigger. I seem to remember JR and Sue Ellen taking a break or honeymoon in some remote location that the Ewings owned but had forgotten about up to that point. That would have been a big deal a few seasons earlier, but by this time they were Keeping Up With The Carringtons.

As time went on and JR lost his impact, the stetson seemed to become almost a symbol of the menace, rather like the shark's fin in the increasingly cartoony Jaws sequels. The audience had been conditioned so we only had to see it to know that it meant trouble, even though it would never have the raw impact of the original version where it truly felt like anything was possible.

In all my years of knowing and loving this man and his Stetson - you are the ONLY person that has ever made the Jaws connection.

Like wow.

:bravo1:

 

[the-lost-son]

I think the last season JR was really scary on a constant basis was season 6 (DVD7) for example when he dealt with Edgar Randolph in the hospital for example or when he found out that Sly was spying for Cliff or when he threatened Pam.

In the following season he was still dealing & wheeling and backstabbing, but the general focus of the story was transferred more to Pam and the inbnevitable reunion with Bobby. JR was more focused on Mandy Wjnger or Pam's love life.

In the dream season most of his schemes don't work and he is pushed around (beaten by Matt Cantrell the low point). If he wins (Ewing Oil staying in the family, John Ross staying at Southfork) it's always now thanks to the generosity of others. He blackmails only 2-3 secondary characters, but he is not scary anymore. When he threatened Jerry, Kenderson to break his legs it feels like an empty threat.

In season 9 (DVD10) he is insulting and mean, but I can't think of one scary scene of him. Most of his schemes backfire (BD Calhoun making him look pathetic and weak).
Especially in the beginning he is very rude to Bobby, Sue Ellen and Jack (moochers, half-breeds, strangers ) but not scary. We should have gotten a scene where JR send some boys for Parmalee.

The character without his scary personality, lost something big.

 

[Pamela_E]

I think the last season JR was really scary on a constant basis was season 6 (DVD7) for example when he dealt with Edgar Randolph in the hospital for example or when he found out that Sly was spying for Cliff or when he threatened Pam.

In the following season he was still dealing & wheeling and backstabbing, but the general focus of the story was transferred more to Pam and the inbnevitable reunion with Bobby. JR was more focused on Mandy Wjnger or Pam's love life.

In the dream season most of his schemes don't work and he is pushed around (beaten by Matt Cantrell the low point). If he wins (Ewing Oil staying in the family, John Ross staying at Southfork) it's always now thanks to the generosity of others. He blackmails only 2-3 secondary characters, but he is not scary anymore. When he threatened Jerry, Kenderson to break his legs it feels like an empty threat.

In season 9 (DVD10) he is insulting and mean, but I can't think of one scary scene of him. Most of his schemes backfire (BD Calhoun making him look pathetic and weak).
Especially in the beginning he is very rude to Bobby, Sue Ellen and Jack (moochers, half-breeds, strangers ) but not scary. We should have gotten a scene where JR send some boys for Parmalee.

The character without his scary personality, lost something big.

Maybe the shift started to happen after Bobby was shot. I don't think we saw the JR from the previous seasons again, one who had a sinister edge.

He was nasty to Sue Ellen in those early dream season episodes, then they seemed of soften him slightly, but not in a comedic way. I guess we were given more of a glimpse into his softer side.

Then post dream, making Sue Ellen harder (which I loved) seemed to mean JR had to become more comedic at times.

If I recall correctly, they played into the fact JR was sinister, but almost a tease. One where Sue Ellen reveals her scheme at Valentine Lingerie, where you expect revenge but instead is impressed and the other when Cally reveals she isn't pregnant. A totally different vibe to earlier seasons.

 

[the-lost-son]

Maybe the shift started to happen after Bobby was shot. I don't think we saw the JR from the previous seasons again, one who had a sinister edge.

He was nasty to Sue Ellen in those early dream season episodes, then they seemed of soften him slightly, but not in a comedic way. I guess we were given more of a glimpse into his softer side.

Then post dream, making Sue Ellen harder (which I loved) seemed to mean JR had to become more comedic at times.

If I recall correctly, they played into the fact JR was sinister, but almost a tease. One where Sue Ellen reveals her scheme at Valentine Lingerie, where you expect revenge but instead is impressed and the other when Cally reveals she isn't pregnant. A totally different vibe to earlier seasons.

Many series softened up in the last years of the 80s. If you compare the first and last episodes of Magnum for example, the change is noticeable too - from dangerous situation, menacing enemies to mostly comedy scenarios between Higgins and Magnum.

Maybe this development has something to do with the success of all these comedies at that time (Bill Cosby, Roseanne, Al Bundy etc.).

In the late 80s JR blaming someone for rape (like he did with Alan Beam) is unthinkable. The comedic factor increased significantly (e.g. Cliff vs. JR who has the bigger office).

Falcon Crest increased their comedic scenes as well over the years.

 

[DallasFanForever]

The first time I noticed the character not being scary anymore was during the dream season. He seemed to be getting outfoxed more than usual and making mistakes J.R. would never make. And I think it just gets worse the next season.

Instead of making the character more comedic and humanized as he got older I think they should’ve gone the other way, making him more bitter and callous.

 

[James from London]

I wonder if scariness is linked with unpredictability. Because DALLAS went on for so long and JR was the star of the show, he became increasingly familiar and therefore less likely to surprise or scare.

The common thread that links all of JR’s “fish out of water” escapades during the last few years is that no matter where he finds himself — on a chain gang or trapped overnight in an elevator or on a mystery mission to Moscow or committed to a mental hospital — he is fundamentally unchanged by his surroundings*. He remains resolutely convinced of both his own importance and his ability to bribe his way out of trouble. Much like a character from SEINFELD, a show that would help symbolise the ‘90s just as DALLAS had the ‘80s, he never "grows" from his experiences. That's JR's USP, if you like. And I guess its his refusal or inability to change even as the family changes around him that leads to him trying - or sort of trying - to kill himself at the end. But the byproduct of all that is his increasing predictability.

What I loved about New DALLAS (among other things) was that it made JR, for the first time, mysterious. We didn't know when he'd show up or for how long or what he was capable of or how far he'd go or where his true loyalties lay. He may not have been scary exactly, but he was suddenly dangerous and unpredictable again.

*That weird goodbye scene where he hands out presents to the hospital patients notwithstanding.

In the late 80s JR blaming someone for rape (like he did with Alan Beam) is unthinkable.

He did do the same thing with Alex Barton (Cally's Svengali) to make him leave the country.

 

[James from London]

I think the one way JR could have continued to scare, shock and surprise the audience is if he'd been a bad father - cruel or neglectful or over-controlling, or some combination thereof - but I don't think viewers would have wanted to see that. So they went the other way and made him an only-on-TV caring, sharing, emotionally articulate daddy instead. New DALLAS redressed the balance by making him a crappy father in retrospect.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

What I loved about New DALLAS (among other things) was that it made JR, for the first time, mysterious. We didn't know when he'd show up or for how long or what he was capable of or how far he'd go or where his true loyalties lay. He may not have been scary exactly, but he was suddenly dangerous and unpredictable again.

JR (and John Ross) was one of the only things I felt really worked for the 2012 show, for those reasons.

 

[Laurie!]

Scary?? Even when I watched as a child, I never once thought of JR as scary. It wasn't because anything went over my head either, like some of the adult jokes in Disney movies.

I always had JR pegged as a rather weak, non intimidating person. Sort of like the man behind the curtain in The Wizard of Oz. He pretended to be mighty and powerful but was actually quite pathetic. Without his money and therefore, clout, JR had nothing to offer. He was terrible at business, couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag and even had to pay women to have sex with him in most cases. He was just like putting a fancy hood ornament on an old Toyota Camry or something. Once you look past the bling, it's just a plain old Camry.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Scary?? Even when I watched as a child, I never once thought of JR as scary. It wasn't because anything went over my head either, like some of the adult jokes in Disney movies.

I always had JR pegged as a rather weak, non intimidating person. Sort of like the man behind the curtain in The Wizard of Oz. He pretended to be mighty and powerful but was actually quite pathetic. Without his money and therefore, clout, JR had nothing to offer. He was terrible at business, couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag and even had to pay women to have sex with him in most cases. He was just like putting a fancy hood ornament on an old Toyota Camry or something. Once you look past the bling, it's just a plain old Camry.

But that's because you saw through to what JR really was -- but a lot of folks, including a lot of viewers, didn't -- and some still don't. They were impressed by his swagger and the money. intimidated by his glare and borderline sociopathy, and they respected/were terrified of it. Some even saw him as a superlative romantic figure.

As a result of your more objective perspective, you were probably less stunned by his pathetic meltdown in the later seasons, a meltdown which angered audience members who'd been more wowed and cowed by JR's "power" for so long a time.

 

[Laurie!]

a result of your more objective perspective, you were probably less stunned by his pathetic meltdown in the later seasons, a meltdown which angered audience members who'd been more wowed and cowed by JR's "power" for so long a time.

I was only stunned because people like JR, generally never admit they're merely a facade. They keep up the appearance of greatness and don't contemplate suicide or (like one of the movies) ride back into town in the back of a lowly pig truck....leaving behind any semblance of dignity.

Believing the later years were just a natural progression of his character would be a mistake and giving the writers far too much credit. It was instead, just Larry riding the money train and having a laugh....unless the pig truck was a metaphor for the earmarked pork Larry was riding to the bank. Nahhh!

 

[Mustard]

You have to say the end to Season 10 DVD, when Ewing Oil with the aid of the CIA still lost to the Justice Department with the aid of Nancy Scottfield, is the moment that ended the Ewing aura, and most of the J.R. aura. The cracks then widened further for J.R. in Season 11 DVD when he lost most of his battles even if he still had the old swagger, the Haleyville humiliation in early Season 12 DVD being another low, and Season 13 DVD was an utter disaster for J.R. on almost every level, reduced to going into a sanitarium for Ewing Oil shares from Jessica and then being trapped there by his own son! Season 14 DVD, J.R. seems to be going through motions most of the time.

The dream season (Season 9 DVD) J.R. saw a lot of his softer side after Bobby's death, but he was still the proper J.R. compared to anything after Season 10 DVD. I fully expect Bobby's death, and the manner it happened, to make J.R. softer like we saw that season. I do wonder if Larry Hagman's health was starting to fail him in the late 1980s, to be honest, which led to the 1995 liver transplant that saved his life.