What ultimately killed Dallas?

[Sarah]

From the moment the writers decided to split JR and Sue Ellen for good, it was over.

As the shows power couple, they could have and should have been so much more. I think Linda would have stayed had they offered better storylines for Sue Ellen, such as teaming her and JR up in business - which sort of happened in JR Returns and WOTE anyway. It was a disgrace to part then and being in Kimberley Cryder.

With this happening and Sue Ellen’s departure, JR descended into something unrecognisable. He needed Sue Ellen alongside him, even the producers said that. Far from it being the loss of Pam who by that stage wasn’t as important as JR anyway, the ball started rolling from the minute Kimberley Cryder appeared.

We not only lost Sue Ellen, a fantastic female character, but we lost JR (he was never the same) and ultimately lost the show.

Great thread btw.

 

[Grangehill1]

From the moment the writers decided to split JR and Sue Ellen for good, it was over.

As the shows power couple, they could have and should have been so much more. I think Linda would have stayed had they offered better storylines for Sue Ellen, such as teaming her and JR up in business - which sort of happened in JR Returns and WOTE anyway. It was a disgrace to part then and being in Kimberley Cryder.

With this happening and Sue Ellen’s departure, JR descended into something unrecognisable. He needed Sue Ellen alongside him, even the producers said that. Far from it being the loss of Pam who by that stage wasn’t as important as JR anyway, the ball started rolling from the minute Kimberley Cryder appeared.

We not only lost Sue Ellen, a fantastic female character, but we lost JR (he was never the same) and ultimately lost the show.

Great thread btw.

 

[cws]

From the moment the writers decided to split JR and Sue Ellen for good, it was over.

As the shows power couple, they could have and should have been so much more. I think Linda would have stayed had they offered better storylines for Sue Ellen, such as teaming her and JR up in business - which sort of happened in JR Returns and WOTE anyway. It was a disgrace to part then and being in Kimberley Cryder.

With this happening and Sue Ellen’s departure, JR descended into something unrecognisable. He needed Sue Ellen alongside him, even the producers said that. Far from it being the loss of Pam who by that stage wasn’t as important as JR anyway, the ball started rolling from the minute Kimberley Cryder appeared.

We not only lost Sue Ellen, a fantastic female character, but we lost JR (he was never the same) and ultimately lost the show.

Great thread btw.

Couldn't have said it any better!!!!

 

[CeeCee72]

All shows outlive their popularity. As others have said, the world was changing and tastes were changing. Having said that, many shows lose ratings and still manage to maintain quality until the end. Dallas didn't. To me that's what killed it. If it had been cancelled because of bad ratings but was still good, fine. But let's be honest, it was just awful.




If I had to pick from the list, I will say writing. But it was also casting and production decisions.




The dream started the slide. Somehow, season ten was good enough to ALMOST recover but then...




1. Pam left. And that could have been survived if the plot hadn't been so awful. Mummy Pam sneaking out of the hospital. Katherine showing up then just getting dropped. Bobby not looking for Pam. Viewers were supposed to believe that Pam left Christopher, a child she loved to the point of smothering obsession, on a whim.


2. Breaking JR and Sue Ellen up over West Star. By that point, we had had TWO seasons of JR *coming to Jesus" over his feelings for Sue Ellen (Dream and season 10). They flushed all the character development down the toilet with his pursuit of Kimberly. JR could have maintained his evil edge without that and it felt like a rehash of old plot lines to me (Holly Harwood).


2. The total destruction of Sue Ellen's character. That movie plot line was the dumbest thing I ever saw. It was so contrived. There was never the slightest chance she'd release that movie. She loved her son too much to do that to him. Oh, and SHE abandoned HER son to traipse off to London with a man she barely knew. She was consumed by bitter revenge and that wasn't the Sue Ellen we knew and loved.


3. The marginalization and eventual dumping of Ellie, Clayton, Ray, and Lucy was catastrophic, especially considering the reasons they left. Ellie just up and abandoned the land she had loved more than anything else in her life? Ray followed Jenna out of the country when he wouldn't even follow Donna to the general store? More destruction of years of character development.


4. Bad casting of new characters. April was the ONLY new character they got right. James was a horrible actor and annoying. Vanessa had ZERO chemistry with JR. Michelle was whiny and annoying. Those three characters could have been great, the casting was awful.


5. The utter destruction of JR. He lost battles to the weakest characters. The whole shotgun marriage to Cally was insane. Then James and Michelle and De La Vega and...I could go on. Meanwhile, we never even got an acknowledgement from JR 's character about how losing Ellie, Sue Ellen, and John Ross was the real reason he fell apart.


At the end, Dallas was schlock.

 

[cws]

All shows outlive their popularity. As others have said, the world was changing and tastes were changing. Having said that, many shows lose rating and still manage to maintain quality until the end. Dallas didn't. To me that's what killed it. If it had been cancelled because of bad ratings but was still good, fine. But let's be honest, it was just awful.




If I had to pick from the list, I will say writing. But it was also casting and production decisions.




The dream started the slide. Somehow, season ten was good enough to ALMOST recover but then...




1. Pam left. And that could have been survived if the plot hadn't been so awful. Mummy Pam sneaking out of the hospital. Katherine showing up then just getting dropped. Bobby not looking for Pam. Viewers were supposed to believe that Pam left Christopher, a child she loved to the point of smothering obsession, on a whim.


2. Breaking JR and Sue Ellen up over West Star. By that point, we had had TWO seasons of JR *coming to Jesus" over his feelings for Sue Ellen (Dream and season 10). They flushed all the character development down the toilet with his pursuitbof Kimberly. JR could have maintained his evil edge without that and it felt like a rehash of old plot lines to me (Holly Harwood).


2. The total destruction of Sue Ellen's character. That movie plot line was the dumbest thing I ever saw. It was so contrived. There was never the slightest chance she'd release that movie. She loved her son too much to do that to him. Oh, and SHE abandoned HER son to traipse off to London with a man she barely knew. She was consumed by bitter revenge and that wasn't the Sue Ellen we knew and loved.


3. The marginalization and eventual dumping of Ellie, Clayton, Ray, and Lucy was catastrophic, especially considering the reasons they left. Ellie just up and abandoned the land she had loved more than anything else in her life? Ray followed Jenna out of the country when he wouldn't even follow Son to the general store? More destruction of years of character development.


4. Bad casting of new characters. April was the ONLY new character they got right. James was a horrible actor and annoying. Vanessa had ZERO chemistry with JR. Michelle was whiny and annoying. Those three characters could have been great, the casting was awful.


5. The utter destruction of JR. He lost battles to the weakest characters. The whole shotgun marriage to Cally was insane. Then James and Michelle and De La Vega and...I could go on. Meanwhile, we never even got an acknowledgement from JR 's character about how losing Ellie, Sue Ellen, and John Ross was the real reason he fell apart.


At the end, Dallas was schlock.

WOW!! You really are a good writer putting it all together like that!! NOTHING and I mean NOTHING else needs to be said!!!!!

 

[Sarah]

I haven't heard the term 'coming to Jesus' before - what does it mean?

 

[Grangehill1]

Yes splitting up JR and she Ellen was a massive mistake. Having Sue Ellen shoot JR was a massive mistake as well. (I’ve always said Sue Ellen should have been hit by a stray bullet)

Kimberley Cryder was just too campy and I didn’t believe that storyline

 

[DallasFanForever]

I haven't heard the term 'coming to Jesus' before - what does it mean?

It means a sudden realization. Like an epiphany from a lesson learned. Very similar to the first time you saw a certain Dallas character onscreen for the first time that I know better than to mention here and decided she could very well drive you to commit murder.

 

[CeeCee72]

I haven't heard the term 'coming to Jesus' before - what does it mean?

Yeah, an epiphany. Or facing something you don't want to face, finally confronting it and making peace with it.

 

[Sarah]

It means a sudden realization. Like an epiphany from a lesson learned. Very similar to the first time you saw a certain Dallas character onscreen for the first time that I know better than to mention here and decided she could very well drive you to commit murder.

That wasn't Jesus. It was LUCIFER.

 

[Chris2]

Well it still held its ratings after Pam left, seems Sue Ellen's exit left more of a dent.

In the US, Victoria’s last season on Dallas had a 21.3 Nielsen rating , and the season after, Dallas had a 16.8 Nielsen rating. It lost 21% of its audience when Victoria left.

Linda Gray’s last season had a 15.2 Nielsen rating and ranked The season after had 12.4 rating. It lost 18% of its audience after Linda left.

The show outlived its premise and the producers weren’t able to reinvent it (which is a very difficult thing to do).

 

[Willie Oleson]

I'm missing the poll option: competing with Dynasty

 

[Barbara Fan]

But by the end of season 12 they were down below 20 million

In UK during that period Dallas was getting far less viewers than 20 million

The final season was embarassing figures - beaten by snooker on BBC 2 and repeat (1ooth time) john Wayne films

There were a whole lot of reasons why Dallas lost viewers

Repacling BBG was a very bad move
Bobby coming back from the dead was a big nail in the coffin#
Pams (badly handled) exit was another - and was a turning point for the show when it changed direction and focus and not for the better
Losing Core cast members as time went on - Donna, ray, Sue Ellen, Lucy

and bringing in a lack of talent - acting wise- to replace - April, Michelle, James, Casey, Tommy, Tracey etc didnt help or likes of Carter McKay who was annoying but evern worse was Rose
The writing became a bit silly along with some of the plots
Miss Ellie morphed into Angela Lansbury - seriously Lorimar?? Deserves better
Sue Ellen had her stupid movie - like Who cares? most boring cliff hanger out zzzzz
Bobby dated anyone who had a pulse - (who was pam again?)
JR became a seedy old man with grand daughter aged wife - YUK
Cally was a much sought after artist (NOT) using colour by numbers - just cringeworthy acting there
and lets bring in Mrs Beaumont - the love of his life, but strangely we had never heard of her before!! Really!!??
(Shades of whats to come with TNT, lets just make it up and change it)

Larry and Lenny got too powerful and qulaity of scripts and acting from newbies went down the toilet

It became Dallas in name only with less original core cast that you cared about

It was never really good though after Pam left,

Agree, it changed and not for the better - she was the LINK to Dallas and past, present and central to storlines

 

[Billy Wall]

Pretty much - I think it's hard to pin point one exclusive factor to the show starting to tank. Yes, cast members leaving is a huge blow for any show, but if the stories were completely delicious and addictive, would people just stop watching because Pam/Swellin' leaves? On the other hand, all shows have creative slumps (and Dallas wasn't all golden during the first eight seasons) and having a set of characters which the viewers have grown attached to is a good way to keep viewers watching through those slumps.

Well said. People need to stop acting like Pam and Sue Ellen was THAT important. Not saying they weren’t important characters, but come on. The only character that was big enough that could have derailed the show with his departure is JR.

 

[Pamela_E]

Well said. People need to stop acting like Pam and Sue Ellen was THAT important. Not saying they weren’t important characters, but come on. The only character that was big enough that could have derailed the show with his departure is JR.

Well that was proved not to be the case as they lost 10 million viewers over two years.

 

[Pamela_E]

In the US, Victoria’s last season on Dallas had a 21.3 Nielsen rating , and the season after, Dallas had a 16.8 Nielsen rating. It lost 21% of its audience when Victoria left.

Linda Gray’s last season had a 15.2 Nielsen rating and ranked The season after had 12.4 rating. It lost 18% of its audience after Linda left.

The show outlived its premise and the producers weren’t able to reinvent it (which is a very difficult thing to do).

Victoria's last episode had 21.5 million viewers.

Are you talking about households? I'm using total viewers.

 

[Alexis]

Well that was proved not to be the case as they lost 10 million viewers over two years.

JR just wasn't as interesting without all the women he snarled at. Pam, Donna, Sue Ellen. Even he couldn't carry the show when they were gone.

 

[Pamela_E]

From the moment the writers decided to split JR and Sue Ellen for good, it was over.

As the shows power couple, they could have and should have been so much more. I think Linda would have stayed had they offered better storylines for Sue Ellen, such as teaming her and JR up in business - which sort of happened in JR Returns and WOTE anyway. It was a disgrace to part then and being in Kimberley Cryder.

With this happening and Sue Ellen’s departure, JR descended into something unrecognisable. He needed Sue Ellen alongside him, even the producers said that. Far from it being the loss of Pam who by that stage wasn’t as important as JR anyway, the ball started rolling from the minute Kimberley Cryder appeared.

We not only lost Sue Ellen, a fantastic female character, but we lost JR (he was never the same) and ultimately lost the show.

Great thread btw.

I disagree and actually think Sue Ellen going back and fourth with JR was part of the problem. It was boring and predictable, a bit like sending Sue Ellen back to the bottle when they ran out of ideas.

Of course she was a brilliant character, but I do feel a new wife for JR with the right person may have helped the show. But happening earlier to shake it up a bit.

Of course Sue Ellen could have become the mistress .

But the shows formula which was once a winner became a chain around its neck. Changes to the show felt like kneejerks to ratings rather than creative storylining.

 

[Pamela_E]

JR just wasn't as interesting without all the women he snarled at. Pam, Donna, Sue Ellen. Even he couldn't carry the show when they were gone.

Totally, it would be like Halloween without Laurie or Scream without Sidney .

JR worked me for because of the shocking things he did to the nice characters. I cared about. Once you stop caring about his victims the show loses its steam.

 

[Chris2]

Victoria's last episode had 21.5 million viewers.

Are you talking about households? I'm using total viewers.

Yeah, I’m talking about the Nielsen rating average for the whole season. One ratings point is equal to one percent of the total number of TV households or viewers in the US. Back then, I think a ratings point was equal to slightly under one million viewers/households.

The point I was trying to make was that more viewers stopped watching Dallas after Victoria’s last season than after Linda’s last season. But then again, the show had a bigger audience when Victoria left than when Linda left. So there was more audience to lose. But there was significant decline in the season after each actress left. So interpret it as you would like!