Was Mark Grayson a stalker?

[Billy Wall]

I never viewed Mark as a stalker

and with hindsight he treated Pam much better than Bobby, who never took her anywhere except to a Cattlemans junket in Vegas and he ran into black sheep brother Gary

he wined and dined her and wanted to whisk her off to far flung parts of the world , go on safari, to Asia etc

There’s truth to what you said, but there were many times Bobby tried to be a good husband and Pam literally turned away.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

@Taylor Bennett Jr. , Lobcocked? That is donderfulwon!

This is such an interesting thread, and you all are making some great points! We did a complete rewatch a while back and came at this from a different angle:

Mark told Pam that the person following her was Pam's "Guardian Angel" who was reporting back to Mark on Pam's overall well being. The question we asked upon rewatch was, "Is Pam a damsel in distress who needs a guardian angel, or is she a strong and independent woman?"

The answer to that question is different for early seasons Pam than it is for later seasons Pam.

 

[Toni]

I suppose there are some similarities, but Pam was married to Bobby, while Digger/Ellie and Ray/Pam were not married.
I also think Ellie encouraged Jock to pursue her, in Dallas:Early Years, and I think Pam used Ray

I don't think Mark was a stalker, but I think there was something intrusive about his pursuit of Pam

So the "holy alliance" is stronger than the friendship (between Bobby and Ray) or the non-consummated relationship? In case 1, your honor, not only Bobby "stole" Pam to his best friend but to his employee (the ranch foreman). In case 2, Miss Ellie went after Jock just to save the ranch and keep it in the family, ie strictly for business. Ray´s and Digger´s feelings were stronger than the show later admitted: Ray wanted to reconcile with Pam (encouraged by JR) in the Pilot, and Digger always had hopes to win Ellie back, until almost his death.

To my eyes Mark is only guilty to believe JR´s words about their marital crisis. If he knew a little about him, then he´d probably have rolled his eyes and let it go. But Katherine also was there, and, in every scene with him, she insisted in how badly Pam was feeling and that she and Bobby were in deep trouble, beyond any reconciliation . I think we all underestimate the power of Krazy KAT... If she hadn´t been in the middle, then Mark might be suspicious of stalkering. Maybe he was naive regarding women and believed everything a pretty girl would say to him... Poor, poor Mark.

"Meow!"​

 

[Billy Wall]

So the "holy alliance" is stronger than the friendship (between Bobby and Ray) or the non-consummated relationship? In case 1, your honor, not only Bobby "stole" Pam to his best friend but to his employee (the ranch foreman).

View attachment 35541
"Meow!"​

Remember, back in those days, Bobby and Ray weren’t particularly close, much less best friends. He was much closer to JR in the beginning.

 

[Toni]

Remember, back in those days, Bobby and Ray weren’t particularly close, much less best friends. He was much closer to JR in the beginning.

Well, upon the series, Ray went with Jock, JR and Bobby to hunt with them when they were young. I think it was implied they were good friends. It was mentioned several times even in the latter seasons. "But not uncle Gary..." added once JR to John Ross. Poor Gary.

Besides, if JR and Jock were always out for business, someone had to teach sweet Bobby how to ride, brand cattle, and things like that. And Ray was several years older. With Gary missing, it´s logical they had such a bond.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

Remember, back in those days, Bobby and Ray weren’t particularly close, much less best friends. He was much closer to JR in the beginning.

and I don't remember if was established exactly how Bobby and Pam really got together in the first place... I imagine it wasn't Bobby hounding her day after day at The Store and having a Dallas PD buddy break into her apartment to fill it with flowers and what not until she finally gave in. It was probably more organic than that, just chatting at the barbecue and realizing there was a mutual attraction. (my guess is that Tilly might have nudged them together with the help of Sam)

Also, it was established early in the first episode in a scene with Jock that Ray and Pam were kind of 'on and off' in their relationship, nothing like a marriage.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

Besides, if JR and Jock were always out for business, someone had to teach sweet Bobby how to ride, brand cattle, and things like that. And Ray was several years older. With Gary missing, it´s logical they had such a bond.

ah yes, and as the announcer pointed out in Rodeo, Bobby was one of the finest cowboys in the country! (I always thought that was hilarious)

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

So the "holy alliance" is stronger than the friendship (between Bobby and Ray) or the non-consummated relationship? In case 1, your honor, not only Bobby "stole" Pam to his best friend but to his employee (the ranch foreman). In case 2, Miss Ellie went after Jock just to save the ranch and keep it in the family, ie strictly for business. Ray´s and Digger´s feelings were stronger than the show later admitted: Ray wanted to reconcile with Pam (encouraged by JR) in the Pilot, and Digger always had hopes to win Ellie back, until almost his death.

To my eyes Mark is only guilty to believe JR´s words about their marital crisis. If he knew a little about him, then he´d probably have rolled his eyes and let it go. But Katherine also was there, and, in every scene with him, she insisted in how badly Pam was feeling and that she and Bobby were in deep trouble, beyond any reconciliation . I think we all underestimate the power of Krazy KAT... If she hadn´t been in the middle, then Mark might be suspicious of stalkering. Maybe he was naive regarding women and believed everything a pretty girl would say to him... Poor, poor Mark.

View attachment 35541
"Meow!"​

Your Honor? Do you know something I don't! I am not judging anything, but
thanx for the (inaccurate) honor!

What was the unconsummated relationship? Pam and Mark? It wasn't really a relationship at that point, I suppose,
but again, Pam was a married woman, the other situations were not.

I don't know what this 'holy alliance' is. Did Ellie love Digger? I seem to remember her falling short of admitting it,
especially when Jock called out Digger at Southfork in front of Ellie, Pam and Bobby
and I remember Ellie defending Jock to Bobby, about Jock having to work while Digger was undependable,
and Ellie didn't encourage the Keenan Wynn Digger much when he suggested that she leave Jock (Although
it was way too late)
She may indeed have married Jock to save the ranch, but it seems that she pursued him just the same.

The pilot is interesting in that we see something akin to original intent, with characters.

Not sure I agree about Mark not knowing JR. Business communities at that high a level have a good knowledge of others,
and strong resources when researching other business leaders. Maybe Mark wanted to believe JR and Katherine more than asking questions

 

[Willie Oleson]

I guess at that time it was supposed to look romantic. He's pushy means he's making an effort means he's serious means he wants her very badly means he's deserving of her love.
Could the audience accept him as Pam's love if he had been casual about it?
A new romance is a life-and-death matter in SoapLand and of course it shouldn't go too smoothly.

 

[pete lashmar]

and I don't remember if was established exactly how Bobby and Pam really got together in the first place... I imagine it wasn't Bobby hounding her day after day at The Store and having a Dallas PD buddy break into her apartment to fill it with flowers and what not until she finally gave in. It was probably more organic than that, just chatting at the barbecue and realizing there was a mutual attraction. (my guess is that Tilly might have nudged them together with the help of Sam)

Also, it was established early in the first episode in a scene with Jock that Ray and Pam were kind of 'on and off' in their relationship, nothing like a marriage.

There was a scene after their divorce when they met at the Oil Baron's Club and chatted until the restaurant was empty - Bobby said he first saw Pam at the Ewing BBQ and that she was Ray's date. That's the nearest we got to how they got together. But no, no stalking, flowers etc.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

I guess at that time it was supposed to look romantic.

Bobby said he first saw Pam at the Ewing BBQ and that she was Ray's date. That's the nearest we got to how they got together. But no, no stalking, flowers etc.

There seems to be a theme running through many of our discussions. Looking back on some of these storylines with today eyes, certain events just hit differently. Mark's pusuit of Pam is one of them.

One thing that is fun watching from today's perspective is that some things just don't hold up. But many story arcs hold up very well, such as the lead up to "Who Shot J.R." and the Contest for Ewing Oil. I'd say the storylines that hold up very well outnumber the ones that don't.

 

[Ollie james]

I liked Mark shame they wasted the character really. John Beck was miles better than any of the characters cast after Pams exit. I loved the scene in the dream season where he comes back and Pam faints when she sees him.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I liked Mark shame they wasted the character really. John Beck was miles better than any of the characters cast after Pams exit. I loved the scene in the dream season where he comes back and Pam faints when she sees him.

Yeah that was a great scene.

A shame that they nixed that entire season by making it a dream.

It was a waste of a good actor in John Beck.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

I liked Mark shame they wasted the character really. John Beck was miles better than any of the characters cast after Pams exit. I loved the scene in the dream season where he comes back and Pam faints when she sees him.

Yeah that was a great scene.

A shame that they nixed that entire season by making it a dream.

It was a waste of a good actor in John Beck.

It's even more enjoyable to watch John Beck when you know his background. Like many, his acting career happened on accident.

John was very shy growing up. So shy that his teachers encouraged him to try out for a school play in the hopes that it would help him overcome his shyness. It worked so well that John pursued acting as his full time profession.

Just in case acting didn't work out, John had other talents to fall back on. He was interested in becoming a veterinarian, and he was also a boxer and was good at roller disco. (Don't laugh, that was a thing in the 1970's)

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

Yeah that was a great scene.

A shame that they nixed that entire season by making it a dream.

It was a waste of a good actor in John Beck.

I also thought that was an excellent scene and nice to see Mark return, but also disappointing in that they kind of wasted all the Pam vs. JR buildup with an "overwhelmed fragile woman who needs a heroic man to save her" cop-out...

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I also thought that was an excellent scene and nice to see Mark return, but also disappointing in that they kind of wasted all the Pam vs. JR buildup with an "overwhelmed fragile woman who needs a heroic man to save her" cop-out...

Even so I think if Patrick Duffy had not come back and Steve Forrest's Ben Stivers had stayed as a recast Jock it would've been Pam and Mark against JR and Jock in season ten. If only....

 

[darkshadows38]

at times i think he was a stalker and at times he wasn't a bit of both really. yes at times he treated her better than Bobby but ya know she could have stood up for herself as well. it's been a long time since i last watched Dallas a couple years i think? so i could be wrong on this but when Bobby was trying to be a good husband Mark in either case was still trying to get Pam into bed. that's just plain f... up so to me he was kind of a stalker in a way yes they did later on get together but he felt like a stalker to me before they did. if i recall that was partly why Bobby was pissed at her at times anyone can correct me if i'm wrong of course, there was also a lot of sexism on Dallas as well with him being pissed that she wanted to even work at all for example.

yes he did come to accept it but i'm just using that as an example. but hey if i'm wrong anyone can correct me i don't mind

 

[Jimmy Todd]

I also thought that was an excellent scene and nice to see Mark return, but also disappointing in that they kind of wasted all the Pam vs. JR buildup with an "overwhelmed fragile woman who needs a heroic man to save her" cop-out...

Such a great comment. I really did not like that they took a strong woman like Pam and set up a scenario ripe with so many wonderful possibilities and reduced her to a caricature of a "woman lost without a man." Such a waste of a great character and a great opportunity regarding plot.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I loved the scene in the dream season where he comes back and Pam faints when she sees him.

I love it even more when she wakes up and asks him if she’s dreaming.

 

[Willie Oleson]

and was good at roller disco

Was he in a disco movie?